Current Events > security at schools

(+) Yeah! (+)

andrew pollack, father of one of the murdered kids, raised this point: we have high levels of security in most facilities.

not in schools.

i don't love the idea of it, but honestly, we're not going to change our gun access anytime soon, so reactive protection is the best thing we've got.

metal detectors and armed security at the entrance of each school would at least provide a line of defense against future shooters.

we deeply underfund our schools. feds ought to foot the bill, preferably via a tax on firearm sales so as to remain budget neutral.
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Darkman124 posted...

preferably via a tax on firearm sales

Sounds good
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You want a prison or a school?
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The US government already doesn't fund schools enough to have them adequately do their jobs. Now, you're gonna fund them to have armed guards and metal detectors? That is hundreds of billions of dollars for every single school in the country.
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Darkman124 posted...

metal detectors and armed security at the entrance of each school would at least provide a line of defense against future shooters

the GOP doesn't want to pay for this.
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Remember the Cameo Nightclub Shooting last year?
They had metal detectors.
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foreveraIone posted...

he GOP doesn't want to pay for this.

but they want to build a 25 million dollar wall. what's the problem?

any no, metal detectors won't work. they'll just shoot outside the school.
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LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

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_BlueMonk posted...

foreveraIone posted...

he GOP doesn't want to pay for this.

but they want to build a 25 million dollar wall. what's the problem?

any no, metal detectors won't work. they'll just shoot outside the school.

Uh what? The wall costs billions to build and millions to maintain.
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Were_Wyrm posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Cause most people tend to not learn well in a prison environment.
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Did that country music concert have metal detectors and security? probably

you fucking morons

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

The US government already doesn't fund schools enough to have them adequately do their jobs. Now, you're gonna fund them to have armed guards and metal detectors? That is hundreds of billions of dollars for every single school in the country.

money well spent, since the will to correct our weapons access issue is not present. let the cost be paid for by taxing firearms however much we have to.

foreveraIone posted...

Darkman124 posted...

metal detectors and armed security at the entrance of each school would at least provide a line of defense against future shooters

the GOP doesn't want to pay for this.

they wouldn't have to. gunmakers (and buyers) would.

i understand and disagree with the statement "my gun rights are more important than your dead kids."

but i think no one would understand the statement "my gun costs are more important than your dead kids."

and if that's their line in the sand, I want them to have to stand for it.

dems should propose this.

Snoozy posted...

Did that country music concert have metal detectors and security? probably

you fucking morons

it was outdoors.
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LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Why would better security make it a prison?
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voldothegr8 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Why would better security make it a prison?

agreed--the security is against outside threats entering, not against those inside leaving.
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Darkman124 posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Why would better security make it a prison?

agreed--the security is against outside threats entering, not against those inside leaving.

Because it causes tension, with armed guards patrolling around there will always be a sense of danger and annoyance. And the only place with tons of armed guards patrolling and metal detectors is a prison. Most banks don't have this security. Most public places do not have this security. Hell kids already feel like school is a prison. Don't make it worse.
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GregShmedley posted...

I will get flack for it from many people on "my side" of the debate but I don't have an issue with this proposal.

I am 100% willing to pay a little extra on a firearm (even ammo, depending on the rate) if it ensured a change in making schools more secure without infringing on rights of law abiding citizens with any sort of ban on firearm type or feature.

it's people like you, that little sociopaths will always know where, and will always have access to weapons in this god damned gun loving monkey of a country.

Snoozy posted...

GregShmedley posted...

I will get flack for it from many people on "my side" of the debate but I don't have an issue with this proposal.

I am 100% willing to pay a little extra on a firearm (even ammo, depending on the rate) if it ensured a change in making schools more secure without infringing on rights of law abiding citizens with any sort of ban on firearm type or feature.

it's people like you, that little sociopaths will always know where, and will always have access to weapons in this god damned gun loving monkey of a country.

new user

karma 9

edit: lol, we were having the same thought
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Yup

I work in a nursing home and the doors are more secure than schools
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LightHawKnight posted...

Because it causes tension, with armed guards patrolling around there will always be a sense of danger and annoyance. And the only place with tons of armed guards patrolling and metal detectors is a prison. Most banks don't have this security. Most public places do not have this security. Hell kids already feel like school is a prison. Don't make it worse.

tension is preferable to the alternatives given the most preferable options are unavailable
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LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Schools are already a prison in my eyes. They'll send the law after you if you don't attend and they force you to sit in school for about 8 hours a day. Might as well complete the look.
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I don't think tension would actually be as prevalent as the relief of being guarded
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Darkman124 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Because it causes tension, with armed guards patrolling around there will always be a sense of danger and annoyance. And the only place with tons of armed guards patrolling and metal detectors is a prison. Most banks don't have this security. Most public places do not have this security. Hell kids already feel like school is a prison. Don't make it worse.

tension is preferable to the alternatives given the most preferable options are unavailable

Cept most schools don't get shot at. Tension will lower the their already bad grades, it will make everything worse. No one actually likes an armed guard with a gun patrolling. The kids are going to feel like they are being watched by the guards and will suffer.
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if you have to, dress it up. it doesnt have to look like a prison.
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Why cant we just turn it into a military state already?
A military school will weed out the bad seeds at a young age.
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bump
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxnea2AgWME
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LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

People don't die this often in prison
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LightHawKnight posted...

Cept most schools don't get shot at. Tension will lower the their already bad grades, it will make everything worse. No one actually likes an armed guard with a gun patrolling. The kids are going to feel like they are being watched by the guards and will suffer.

Most cars don't crash, still they're all equipped with seatbelts.
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scar the 1 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Cept most schools don't get shot at. Tension will lower the their already bad grades, it will make everything worse. No one actually likes an armed guard with a gun patrolling. The kids are going to feel like they are being watched by the guards and will suffer.

Most cars don't crash, still they're all equipped with seatbelts.

i'm actually very interested in the perspective of someone like you, who lives in a country where this doesn't happen

that you're not appalled either makes me think it might have some legs
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Darkman124 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Cept most schools don't get shot at. Tension will lower the their already bad grades, it will make everything worse. No one actually likes an armed guard with a gun patrolling. The kids are going to feel like they are being watched by the guards and will suffer.

Most cars don't crash, still they're all equipped with seatbelts.

i'm actually very interested in the perspective of someone like you, who lives in a country where this doesn't happen

that you're not appalled either makes me think it might have some legs

I dunno I find your suggestion depressing, but mostly because you're making sense. It's a realist suggestion. Addressing a deeply rooted gun/violence culture isn't likely to happen through legislation sadly. My gut feeling though is that adding guards is an ad hoc solution that would indeed bring about other problems. Problems that aren't necessarily easily measurable, so it's really difficult to say if it would be an improvement or not. Essentially gun violence is a complicated issue, and I'm not sure higher security at schools would make it easier to solve (potentially harder, but it will be super hard to know one way or the other), but like you're saying it might be a necessary symptomatic treatment.
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yeah, ultimately i'd rather have new problems to grapple with that might have solutions than a problem that keeps killing children which doesn't get solved ever

i look at these situations and ask myself "why are these shooters always targeting children? surely there is someone they're more angry at that they'd want to go after, like their elected leadership"

but we never get mass shooters in government offices; the one time it happened was an unsecure baseball field.
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LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Please. Where I work have higher security measures and are nowhere prison like
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Darkman124 posted...

i look at these situations and ask myself "why are these shooters always targeting children? surely there is someone they're more angry at that they'd want to go after, like their elected leadership"

Which to be fair is a bit more rational than I expect the average shooter to be. I hear your point, but isn't the profile usually someone who isn't making such rational decisions about specifically who deserves punishment?
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scar the 1 posted...

Which to be fair is a bit more rational than I expect the average shooter to be. I hear your point, but isn't the profile usually someone who isn't making such rational decisions about specifically who deserves punishment?

idk

maybe confirmation bias has me overlooking all the failed shooting attempts at secure facilities
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Well, looks like this school even had security. He cowered in the parking lot while kids were gunned down.
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Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Please. Where I work have higher security measures and are nowhere prison like

And you are apparently a teenager or a child. There is a reason why most people hate a police state. With armed guards patrolling and monitoring everything it will make their lives hell. There are just as concentrated areas that don't have anywhere near that security for a reason. Most people hate it.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

You want a prison or a school?

Please. Where I work have higher security measures and are nowhere prison like

And you are apparently a teenager or a child. There is a reason why most people hate a police state. With armed guards patrolling and monitoring everything it will make their lives hell. There are just as concentrated areas that don't have anywhere near that security for a reason. Most people hate it.

Lol. As someone who went to school with armed security present since middle school, the officers did not make it seem more like a prison than it already did. Most of the officers were well liked honestly, even with some of the trouble makers like myself. They were just there and available when needed, and interacted with the students just like the rest of the staff. One even went over sex ed with us.
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are you trying to get black kids shot, darkman?
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Darkman124 posted...

i look at these situations and ask myself "why are these shooters always targeting children? surely there is someone they're more angry at that they'd want to go after, like their elected leadership"

In some cases, I would guess because they become resentful and hateful towards the people they see around themselves every day even if it's not logical.
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no

i am hopeful that the deployment of security at schools would not result in their use against students moreso than their use in defense of students

but that is a very valid criticism

and probably why i'd be much more in favor of professional security staff than the half-baked idea of concealed-carry teachers
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Darkman124 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Which to be fair is a bit more rational than I expect the average shooter to be. I hear your point, but isn't the profile usually someone who isn't making such rational decisions about specifically who deserves punishment?

idk

maybe confirmation bias has me overlooking all the failed shooting attempts at secure facilities

Hmm, I think I'm saying that from my prejudiced understanding, the group of people that are shooting up schools wouldn't necessarily shoot up Congress anyway. I'm sure there are other shooters that are dissuaded by the security though.
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What a surprise the left doesn't like this either

Security officers? NO
Metal detectors? NO
Volunteer staff that are trained and can coneal carry? NO
Locked doors where someone has to buzz you in? NO
Tighter control on mental health? NO
Having law enforcement follow through on leads? NO
Banning guns? YES ITS THE ONLY SOLUTION!
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DyingPancake posted...

What a surprise the left doesn't like this either

i am the left
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I mean, this school had a sheriff's deputy on campus and it didn't help; he just stayed away from the firefight. which is what you'd expect in most of these cases tbh, I'm not under the illusion that security guards or even police officers really want to die or put themselves in danger. These guys take 8 cars to pull someone over for speeding in most circumstances.

maybe the addition of metal detectors changes that, but it's hard for me to see exactly how unless you really changed the built environment in a ton of schools

the issue for me is that it is always gonna be easier for a person with a gun to shoot an aggressive but mostly harmless kid than a kid who is intent on shooting people
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Balrog0 posted...

the issue for me is that it is always gonna be easier for a person with a gun to shoot an aggressive but mostly harmless kid than a kid who is intent on shooting people

a fair criticism
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Balrog0 posted...

I mean, this school had a sheriff's deputy on campus and it didn't help; he just stayed away from the firefight. which is what you'd expect in most of these cases tbh, I'm not under the illusion that security guards or even police officers really want to die or put themselves in danger. These guys take 8 cars to pull someone over for speeding in most circumstances.

Then they're in the wrong line of work. And his training would have been to engage, hence the investigation now. But, yeah, I guess sadly this is what I've come to expect.

DyingPancake posted...

Tighter control on mental health? NO
Having law enforcement follow through on leads? NO

Oh fuck off.
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Sir Will posted...

Then they're in the wrong line of work. And his training would have been to engage, hence the investigation now.

yeah, maybe, but what can you do about that? most localities are already struggling with recruiting and retaining officers, period, much less keeping the good ones. this is especially true in poorer and higher crime areas.

but that also plays into the issue -- 'good' cops leave for the suburbs for higher pay, because they expect to not be put in danger there. when they are, are they really going to be ready to go? not in this case. not in most cases, I would say
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