Current Events > China is now surpassing America in military air power

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FLUFFYGERM 02/21/18 2:08:17 PM #1:	https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget! --- Do good. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:896504170] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OneThatFollows 02/21/18 2:08:55 PM #2:	Fuck off with the misleading topic titles, will you? --- I walk a lonely road. The only road that I have ever known. <cite>OneThatFollows posted [p:896504198] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Fuck off with the misleading topic titles, will you?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solar_Crimson 02/21/18 2:09:03 PM #4:	What, so we can keep up our dick-measuring contest? CrimsonRage posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... we need to cut our military budget! yes --- http://i.imgur.com/wKOoZkP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/mipFVFw.png http://backloggery.com/SolarCrimson <cite>Solar_Crimson posted [p:896504209] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>What, so we can keep up our dick-measuring contest? <cite>CrimsonRage posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>we need to cut our military budget!</quote> yes</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadowplay 02/21/18 2:09:36 PM #5:	Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we. --- I make a topic in Final Fantasy 12 to ask if Tifa! They said no Tifa. Hardness gone!-gandob <cite>Shadowplay posted [p:896504242] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 02/21/18 2:10:06 PM #6:	https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211837/will-chinas-airpower-soon-rival-the-west/ While the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), the official name for the Chinese air force, has blossomed in the last two decades to one of the most powerful air arms in the world, it is still hobbled by serious problems, technological and otherwise. The Economist states, for example, that Chinas first fifth generation fighter, the Chengdu J-20, has a much longer range than Americas new F-35 fighter, and will be a serious threat to American warships in the Pacific. The problem with this is that nobody really knows what the J-20s real range is. The low end of the J-20s range estimate is 745 miles, while the F-35Cs range is 632 miles. Thats pretty close, and is Chinas advantage melts away when you take into account U.S. forces have many more aerial refueling tankers, and are much more comfortable conducting aerial refuelings in general, than the PLAAF. Furthermore, range is not the only performance metric. The F35C is Americas second fifth generation stealth fighter, and incorporates lessons learned from the F-22. It almost certainly incorporates better avionics, sensors, engines, and a man-machine interface than the J-20, which although an impressive first effort has a relatively thin amount of design experience to draw upon. Another point The Economist makes is that China is tapping the private sector in ways the United States cannot, by ordering high tech industry to help design defense equipment. The Pentagon, by comparison, has to woo skeptical Silicon Valley companies to work with it. Yet by and large, the military industrial complex and Silicon Valley are separate entities working in industrial sectors. The Valleys software and consumer hardware, while certainly the best in the world, has limited utility when producing tanks and fighter jets and is more suited to the back-end world of computer networks and logistics. Silicon Valley has less to offer the Pentagon than may meet the eye. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:896504270] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a18211837/will-chinas-airpower-soon-rival-the-west/ While the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), the official name for the Chinese air force, has blossomed in the last two decades to one of the most powerful air arms in the world, it is still hobbled by serious problems, technological and otherwise. The Economist states, for example, that Chinas first fifth generation fighter, the Chengdu J-20, has a much longer range than Americas new F-35 fighter, and will be a serious threat to American warships in the Pacific. The problem with this is that nobody really knows what the J-20s real range is. The low end of the J-20s range estimate is 745 miles, while the F-35Cs range is 632 miles. Thats pretty close, and is Chinas advantage melts away when you take into account U.S. forces have many more aerial refueling tankers, and are much more comfortable conducting aerial refuelings in general, than the PLAAF. Furthermore, range is not the only performance metric. The F35C is Americas second fifth generation stealth fighter, and incorporates lessons learned from the F-22. It almost certainly incorporates better avionics, sensors, engines, and a man-machine interface than the J-20, which although an impressive first effort has a relatively thin amount of design experience to draw upon. Another point The Economist makes is that China is tapping the private sector in ways the United States cannot, by ordering high tech industry to help design defense equipment. The Pentagon, by comparison, has to woo skeptical Silicon Valley companies to work with it. Yet by and large, the military industrial complex and Silicon Valley are separate entities working in industrial sectors. The Valleys software and consumer hardware, while certainly the best in the world, has limited utility when producing tanks and fighter jets and is more suited to the back-end world of computer networks and logistics. Silicon Valley has less to offer the Pentagon than may meet the eye.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 02/21/18 2:10:21 PM #7:	more american propaganda to justify starting wars --- http://i.imgur.com/hEL2qQYh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lbSi0U3.png http://i.imgur.com/FA2GxDS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xaRYKZM.png http://i.imgur.com/ZngbqJn.jpg <cite>ModLogic posted [p:896504285] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>more american propaganda to justify starting wars</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 02/21/18 2:10:24 PM #8:	Shadowplay posted... Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we. Their government forces firms to develop tech for military use. Our government does not. So it's not that simple. --- Do good. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:896504288] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>Shadowplay posted...</cite> <quote>Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we.</quote> Their government forces firms to develop tech for military use. Our government does not. So it's not that simple.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 02/21/18 2:11:31 PM #9:	FLUFFYGERM posted... https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget! Ehh. I mean, how much is China spending on military? If we're spending so much but still lagging, that's an issue in of itself as well. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.4 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:896504356] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget!</quote> Ehh. I mean, how much is China spending on military? If we're spending so much but still lagging, that's an issue in of itself as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 02/21/18 2:11:37 PM #10:	you need to not sensationalize your titles also this article is really bad. they're competing for regional power not global. the j-20 maneuver capabilities are not comparable to the f-35 or the f-22 even if its range is longer. our CV projection is basically measured by the operating range of non-air power assets so it's not really a relevant metric really the whole concept of air power projected by a large CV group is starting to fade back as cruise missiles are becoming more accurate and sub-launchable, and CV groups themselves are highly vulnerable to anti-ship ballistic missiles --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:896504367] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>you need to not sensationalize your titles also this article is really bad. they're competing for regional power not global. the j-20 maneuver capabilities are not comparable to the f-35 or the f-22 even if its range is longer. our CV projection is basically measured by the operating range of non-air power assets so it's not really a relevant metric really the whole concept of air power projected by a large CV group is starting to fade back as cruise missiles are becoming more accurate and sub-launchable, and CV groups themselves are highly vulnerable to anti-ship ballistic missiles</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 02/21/18 2:11:52 PM #11:	ModLogic posted... more american propaganda to justify starting wars I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge. --- Do good. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:896504378] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>ModLogic posted...</cite> <quote>more american propaganda to justify starting wars</quote> I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/21/18 2:12:23 PM #12:	FLUFFYGERM posted... ModLogic posted... more american propaganda to justify starting wars I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge. Which we aren't nor even close to <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896504412] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ModLogic posted...</cite> <quote>more american propaganda to justify starting wars</quote> I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge.</quote> Which we aren't nor even close to</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YellowSUV 02/21/18 2:13:01 PM #13:	Show me something good the Chinese Communist Party has actually created themselves without copying and I'll be scared then. --- We all live in a Yellow SUV! a Yellow SUV! <cite>YellowSUV posted [p:896504453] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Show me something good the Chinese Communist Party has actually created themselves without copying and I'll be scared then.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SilvosForever 02/21/18 2:13:21 PM #14:	FLUFFYGERM posted... https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget! They spend 10 times less than we do on military. So it sounds like our engineers are idiots. --- All your favorite RPGs: http://www.youtube.com/user/silvosforever http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af84/silvosforever/funnygif.gif <cite>SilvosForever posted [p:896504476] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget!</quote> They spend 10 times less than we do on military. So it sounds like our engineers are idiots.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
XxKrazyChaosxX 02/21/18 2:14:47 PM #15:	Wait, those China #1 comments in game lobbies might actually be true?..... --- "I woke up at four am by accident in time for the paper to be delivered. Guess what? It's not a kid on a bike, it's a man in a car." - Kevin Malone <cite>XxKrazyChaosxX posted [p:896504564] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Wait, those China #1 comments in game lobbies might actually be true?.....</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 02/21/18 2:15:23 PM #16:	I_Stay_Noided posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... ModLogic posted... more american propaganda to justify starting wars I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge. Which we aren't nor even close to yea america isnt exactly sane --- http://i.imgur.com/hEL2qQYh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lbSi0U3.png http://i.imgur.com/FA2GxDS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xaRYKZM.png http://i.imgur.com/ZngbqJn.jpg <cite>ModLogic posted [p:896504598] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ModLogic posted...</cite> <quote>more american propaganda to justify starting wars</quote> I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge.</quote> Which we aren't nor even close to</quote> yea america isnt exactly sane</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 02/21/18 2:17:05 PM #18:	FLUFFYGERM posted... https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget! Yes. We do not need a fucking second cold war with China --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:896504718] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.economist.com/news/china/21737074-some-technologies-it-has-surpassed-it-china-will-soon-have-air-power-rivalling-wests But according to the leftists on CE we need to cut our military budget!</quote> Yes. We do not need a fucking second cold war with China</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 02/21/18 2:17:34 PM #19:	also the claim that the j-20 can operate at supersonic speeds while maintaining stealth appears to be very specious china does have weapons that are a legit threat to our fleet but you're really far off base in identifying their attempt at a fifth-gen fighter as one --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:896504755] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>also the claim that the j-20 can operate at supersonic speeds while maintaining stealth appears to be very specious china does have weapons that are a legit threat to our fleet but you're really far off base in identifying their attempt at a fifth-gen fighter as one</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 02/21/18 2:20:49 PM #20:	I don't remember what article I read this in, but isn't the real obstacle in e.g. a war with China that it's much cheaper for them to sink a boat than it is to protect said boat? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:896504942] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>I don't remember what article I read this in, but isn't the real obstacle in e.g. a war with China that it's much cheaper for them to sink a boat than it is to protect said boat?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 02/21/18 2:30:03 PM #21:	Anteaterking posted... I don't remember what article I read this in, but isn't the real obstacle in e.g. a war with China that it's much cheaper for them to sink a boat than it is to protect said boat? yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21 --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:896505464] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>I don't remember what article I read this in, but isn't the real obstacle in e.g. a war with China that it's much cheaper for them to sink a boat than it is to protect said boat?</quote> yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-21</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 02/23/18 3:16:19 AM #23:	The Pentagon is incredibly wasteful. We need to crack down on that waste a hell of a lot more than we need to add more spending. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:896609506] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>The Pentagon is incredibly wasteful. We need to crack down on that waste a hell of a lot more than we need to add more spending.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GiftedACIII 02/24/18 7:59:27 PM #25:	Are they going to use them though? --- </topic> <cite>GiftedACIII posted [p:896705484] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Are they going to use them though?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Samurontai 02/24/18 8:08:28 PM #26:	Wait, so this is another topic where TC posts one thing, and it turns out to mean something entirely different? --- http://i.imgur.com/Scl5rwX.gif http://i.imgur.com/Fjgt7Qq.gif http://i.imgur.com/NidhAni.gif http://i.imgur.com/IGIbQPk.gif <cite>Samurontai posted [p:896705920] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Wait, so this is another topic where TC posts one thing, and it turns out to mean something entirely different?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 02/24/18 11:49:39 PM #27:	Darkman124 posted... yes --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:896716296] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote> yes</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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masticatingman 02/27/18 1:06:02 AM #29:	YellowSUV posted... Show me something good the Chinese Communist Party has actually created themselves without copying and I'll be scared then. Chinas flaw still is thats its corrupt as all hell. Although its gotten a lot better with that, its relative. --- I am basically am I. Well, basically. <cite>masticatingman posted [p:896843780] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>YellowSUV posted...</cite> <quote>Show me something good the Chinese Communist Party has actually created themselves without copying and I'll be scared then.</quote> Chinas flaw still is thats its corrupt as all hell. Although its gotten a lot better with that, its relative.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 02/27/18 1:07:45 AM #30:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Shadowplay posted... Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we. Their government forces firms to develop tech for military use. Our government does not. So it's not that simple. Yet another failing of free market capitalism, hmmm --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:896843855] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Shadowplay posted...</cite> <quote>Not just leftists that say that the military budget should be cut. And if they can develop competitive tech on a fraction of our budget, then so can we.</quote> Their government forces firms to develop tech for military use. Our government does not. So it's not that simple.</quote> Yet another failing of free market capitalism, hmmm</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pepys Monster 02/27/18 2:08:24 AM #31:	Liberals: "We don't even need a military!" --- I <3 my bae. <cite>Pepys Monster posted [p:896845989] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Liberals: "We don't even need a military!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmegaShinkai 02/27/18 2:19:30 AM #32:	China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. Both Russia and China know their air power isn't as strong which is why they focus on highly advanced SAMs and anti-ship missiles, respectively. <cite>OmegaShinkai posted [p:896846364] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. Both Russia and China know their air power isn't as strong which is why they focus on highly advanced SAMs and anti-ship missiles, respectively.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hypnoticspector 02/27/18 2:21:52 AM #33:	FLUFFYGERM posted... I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge. OmegaShinkai posted... China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. Both Russia and China know their air power isn't as strong which is why they focus on highly advanced SAMs and anti-ship missiles, respectively. blame bill clinton for this. he personally eased the security restrictions at los alamos years back, allowing Wen Ho Lee to get in there and copy every single computer file to a memory stick and transport it to china. that's how they've been able to catch up. <cite>hypnoticspector posted [p:896846433] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think any sane person wants war with China. The idea is to not lose our military edge.</quote> <cite>OmegaShinkai posted...</cite> <quote>China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. Both Russia and China know their air power isn't as strong which is why they focus on highly advanced SAMs and anti-ship missiles, respectively.</quote> blame bill clinton for this. he personally eased the security restrictions at los alamos years back, allowing Wen Ho Lee to get in there and copy every single computer file to a memory stick and transport it to china. that's how they've been able to catch up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Snoozy 02/27/18 3:01:43 AM #34:	OmegaShinkai posted... China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. i could've sworn i just finished reading that their plane's are winning the stealth game in that article <cite>Snoozy posted [p:896847570] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote><cite>OmegaShinkai posted...</cite> <quote>China couldn't even make their own planes without copying the Russians until a couple decades ago. The biggest threat is China's anti-ship missile advancements, not their planes. </quote> i could've sworn i just finished reading that their plane's are winning the stealth game in that article</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
metralo 02/27/18 3:04:54 AM #35:	I mean, we can definitely cut our budget while keeping our military strong. The next 'big' war that happens we're all fucked anyways. Nukes don't care about your military prowess. --- https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1298321979/image.jpg <cite>metralo posted [p:896847639] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>I mean, we can definitely cut our budget while keeping our military strong. The next 'big' war that happens we're all fucked anyways. Nukes don't care about your military prowess.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ricemills 02/27/18 3:22:23 AM #36:	has they weaponized their air pollution? --- You have the right to remain silent. anything you post will be misquoted, then be used against you. <cite>Ricemills posted [p:896848066] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>has they weaponized their air pollution?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paragon21XX 02/27/18 3:25:00 AM #37:	Chinese bootlegs of Western weapons hardly counts as surpassing. --- Hmm... <cite>Paragon21XX posted [p:896848130] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Chinese bootlegs of Western weapons hardly counts as surpassing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PlantLivesMatte 02/27/18 3:28:00 AM #38:	Thanks, Obama and Billary. --- Plant Lives Matter: https://youtu.be/1WUNCwBuT3M <cite>PlantLivesMatte posted [p:896848201] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>Thanks, Obama and Billary.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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FratMilkyHolme 03/03/18 5:36:56 AM #40:	China only culture <cite>FratMilkyHolme posted [p:897094076] in China is n... [t:76342992]...</cite> <quote>China only culture</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > China is now surpassing America in military air power (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > China is now surpassing America in military air power