Board 8 > Fix This Game Day 2: Final Fantasy VIII

(+) Yeah! (+)

scarletspeed7 posted...

You actually don't. But it is interesting to see what people on the board have no sense of storytelling.

well it's more that people are using this topic to vent about what they don't like instead of actually suggesting improvements

Sine still has the best suggestion thus far
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BetrayedTangy posted...

I'm with Scarlet, removing the main characters doesn't fix anything. Because there wouldn't be a plot, it's more of what about the Squall/Rinoa is bad and how do they need to be improved.

Well, for example, you could age them up, but since part of the defining characteristics of the story is the teenage high school element, you end up completely changing the group dynamic and probably alter the characters' personalities past recognition in the process.

Honestly so much of what is iconic about FFVIII is love/hate, so it's not any wonder that people respond in ways that would drastically alter the game.
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BetrayedTangy posted...

I'm with Scarlet, removing the main characters doesn't fix anything. Because there wouldn't be a plot, it's more of what about the Squall/Rinoa is bad and how do they need to be improved.

but what if everything is bad about squall and rinoa which is why they need to be removed
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-Require Rinoa for the Balamb Garden Team when the team splits up.
-More on the Sorceress War. And not just in magazines.

Removing the Squall/Rinoa relationship would make the game infinitely worse. Their relationship is integral to the game, no matter how much you want to remove Squall entirely from the game or ship him with Quistis or Selphie or whoever.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Sine still has the best suggestion thus far

Of course the only thing you can go on board is when suggesting a small little change because you think the game at large is perfect
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Ashethan posted...

-Require Rinoa for the Balamb Garden Team when the team splits up.

Wouldn't this predesignate the teams completely? Aren't Squall and Quistis already required for the Garden team? Selphie is already required for the other team but this would put Zell and Irvine on it by default.
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BetrayedTangy posted...

I'm with Scarlet, removing the main characters doesn't fix anything. Because there wouldn't be a plot, it's more of what about the Squall/Rinoa is bad and how do they need to be improved.

Remove main characters, remove plot, change setting, change battle system and draw system.
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Underleveled posted...

Wouldn't this predesignate the teams completely? Aren't Squall and Quistis already required for the Garden team? Selphie is already required for the other team but this would put Zell and Irvine on it by default.

Quistis definitely is NOT required for the Garden team, given that I always take Rinoa and Zell.
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RekamOiram posted...

BetrayedTangy posted...

I'm with Scarlet, removing the main characters doesn't fix anything. Because there wouldn't be a plot, it's more of what about the Squall/Rinoa is bad and how do they need to be improved.

Remove main characters, remove plot, change setting, change battle system and draw system.

Oh I know!

Make the game exactly like Final Fantasy Tactics
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LiquidOshawott posted...

RekamOiram posted...

BetrayedTangy posted...

I'm with Scarlet, removing the main characters doesn't fix anything. Because there wouldn't be a plot, it's more of what about the Squall/Rinoa is bad and how do they need to be improved.

Remove main characters, remove plot, change setting, change battle system and draw system.

Oh I know!

Make the game exactly like Final Fantasy Tactics

Remove anything that even smells like Final Fantasy Tactics.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Also, I don't think you get to say you're "fixing a game" if you are destroying the integrity of the plot and characters and world the creators built.

"Built" is a pretty strong word for the characters in VIII. The whole point is you could take out all the characters and replace them with any other characters and the plot of the game wouldn't suffer. Theyre like chrono cross characters.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Also, I don't think you get to say you're "fixing a game" if you are destroying the integrity of the plot and characters and world the creators built.

"Built" is a pretty strong word for the characters in VIII. The whole point is you could take out all the characters and replace them with any other characters and the plot of the game wouldn't suffer. Theyre like chrono cross characters.

So the difference is in my example I'm not completely disrespecting the writers and artists and creators by saying that an entirely new game should be created from scratch, and in your example, you don't understand that you are completely dismissing the intent of the creators and their vision. For example, at my shop, I've been asked many times how I would fix the Suicide Squad movie. I don't completely negate the entire plot. I may add some scenes or remove some scenes, but I keep the overall plot and characters intact, because "fixing" something and just doing what you want are two very separate things. Of course, "the fixes" are subjective, but in one frame of mind you are giving deference to the original creator and attempting to not change the spirit of the game, and in the other, you're being a self-entitled narcissist with a lack of creativity or even critical thinking and throwing away the entire game because "ME NO LIKE THIS CHARACTER" is good enough for you.
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Nanis23 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Sine still has the best suggestion thus far

Of course the only thing you can go on board is when suggesting a small little change because you think the game at large is perfect

...yes?
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I don't even actively dislike the characters, I just think they objectively dont bring anything to the game whatsoever. Every non-playable character in the game is actively awesome, i love the battle system, i had a blast playing the game, I even enjoyed the plot. But unless the "creators vision" was "This is the story of several people who have the chemistry of people awkwardly talking to each other at the bus stop" I really dont think its unreasonable to say that character design was so weakly done that a complete character overhaul is in order.
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So it sounds like you would fix the game by giving more time to highlight the characters' personalities and draw those personalities out more in the dialogue of the game. Doesn't sound like a "complete character overhaul" is in order at all. I mean, this sort of attitude is why critical thought is dying everywhere.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

The whole point is you could take out all the characters and replace them with any other characters and the plot of the game wouldn't suffer. Theyre like chrono cross characters.

You're going to have to really defend this point with clear examples. The VIII characters are among the most designed.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

I don't even actively dislike the characters, I just think they objectively dont bring anything to the game whatsoever. Every non-playable character in the game is actively awesome, i love the battle system, i had a blast playing the game, I even enjoyed the plot. But unless the "creators vision" was "This is the story of several people who have the chemistry of people awkwardly talking to each other at the bus stop" I really dont think its unreasonable to say that character design was so weakly done that a complete character overhaul is in order.

The first ever FF game to give you characters whose social skills match their nominal listed ages!
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scarletspeed7 posted...

So the difference is in my example I'm not completely disrespecting the writers and artists and creators by saying that an entirely new game should be created from scratch, and in your example, you don't understand that you are completely dismissing the intent of the creators and their vision.

Sometimes you can't fix something without dismissing the creators' vision.

In terms of core artistic vision, Squall/Rinoa is probably the biggest element -- a hardcore uncaring loner meets a lively girl who is determined to cheer him up and won't take no for an answer. And he learns to open his heart and experience love and all of that. So I understand the intent; it's just a completely unappealing theme to me. It's not something that can really be fixed with better execution. To me, to "fix" it is to rip out the romance that is the central theme.

I could get behind a rewrite that focused on the Squall/Seifer rivalry, as someone mentioned earlier. Just remove Rinoa entirely and go all-in on the rivalry aspect.
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