Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - New Domains of Freedom [dwmf]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not sure how right-wing it is considering it exalts monarchy and polygamy (though I suppose those are highly Trumpy values). But I wouldn't count caving into race-obsessed society as "uncompromising".

I guess it's just a rhetorical change though, since these sites have always been fundamentally about race and white supremacy. It's just in the overton window to talk about race directly now instead of through euphemisms.
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I mean, the Wakanda stuff is particularly hilarious in that it's a nice inversion of the classic leftist claim of "We know free markets don't work because they have failed in so many fictional stories!" Now it's all "We know Africa would be rich and prosperous if not for evil white people because it happened that way in Black Panther!"

If only the MCU also included a European ethnostate ruled by an undisputed individual leader. I'm sure it would be portrayed just as sympathetically...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/superheroes/images/9/9d/Dr-doom.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110508190834
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SmartMuffin posted...

I mean, the Wakanda stuff is particularly hilarious in that it's a nice inversion of the classic leftist claim of "We know free markets don't work because they have failed in so many fictional stories!" Now it's all "We know Africa would be rich and prosperous if not for evil white people because it happened that way in Black Panther!"

If only the MCU also included a European ethnostate ruled by an undisputed individual leader. I'm sure it would be portrayed just as sympathetically...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/superheroes/images/9/9d/Dr-doom.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110508190834

I honest to goodness have no idea what you're arguing.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I honest to goodness have no idea what you're arguing.

that stan lee and jack kirby were saying that black people were good and white people were bad?

seems kind of a stretch, give that black panther was the first black superhero they made after hundreds of white superheroes.
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that stan lee and jack kirby were saying that black people were good and white people were bad?

Nah, my beef is with the modern leftists who are jizzing in their pants over the thought of a non-shithole African country while refusing to openly acknowledge that it is entirely fictional and no more based in reality than Hogwarts or Middle Earth...
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TheRock1525 posted...

If only the MCU also included a European ethnostate ruled by an undisputed individual leader. I'm sure it would be portrayed just as sympathetically...

Dude, most modern writers make Latveria out to be a great place to live because of Doom

Dr Dooms status as a villain is very much a pro-nationalist message. He IS a great ruler, but he has an ego that makes him believe that his way is the only way and the rest of the world needs to fall in line too.
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He IS a great ruler, but he has an ego that makes him believe that his way is the only way and the rest of the world needs to fall in line too.

Then why not just make him President of the US?
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They did once

http://2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/40/39/caa54e4ffd8d4c588fc36a3d288dbac8.jpg
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https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101073/2098120-sp.png

I mean this is pretty much a neo-liberal wet dream
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The true source of Wakanda's prosperity is vibranium, and that's very obvious within the movie.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

Is this the most establishment post ever written?
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Yeah, magic dirt, we know.

Of course, it's not like real life Africa isn't loaded up with a shit-ton of valuable natural resources...
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SmartMuffin posted...

Yeah, magic dirt, we know.

Of course, it's not like real life Africa isn't loaded up with a shit-ton of valuable natural resources...

That white people initially exploited and do to this day.
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Apparently not in Lethoso.
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SmartMuffin posted...

I mean, the Wakanda stuff is particularly hilarious in that it's a nice inversion of the classic leftist claim of "We know free markets don't work because they have failed in so many fictional stories!" Now it's all "We know Africa would be rich and prosperous if not for evil white people because it happened that way in Black Panther!"

I was thinking about this notion of hypocrisy a lot after that article and the top rated comment saying blacks are hypocritical.

This is just a symptom of your descent into intellectual collectivism. Its broader than identity politics but similar.

There are no individual thoughts, only individuals following a narrative script which their group defines. So when people A, B, C say X, and people D, E, F say notX, you see clear hypocrisy because you put A-F are all in the same group. There is no other way for you to see this situation because you have been convinced that all thought, political at least, comes from a groupthink.

I'm not sure why people do this. My main theory is it gives them an excuse not to think, and be satisfied just parroting whatever they hear that makes them feel good. But so many people spend so much mental effort and anguish enforcing their ideas of this groupthink, it seems so difficult. I think the better reason is it allows them to normalize and justify extreme contradictions and real hypocrisy, like Trump or Obama or red pill or whatever. It allows them to actually participate in this horrible political society. If it's impossible to have original thought, might as well pick a group and go with it.

Other symptoms of this collectivism are the idea that media is ruining society and that electing someone can make society great again, etc

The problem is that to maintain this, true individual hypocrisy ends up actually being WORSHIPPED while original thought is DEMONIZED as an attack on your ideology.

That's why it's now considered critical thinking to post racist image macros on reddit, and trolling to write long posts like this.
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SmartMuffin posted...

that stan lee and jack kirby were saying that black people were good and white people were bad?

Nah, my beef is with the modern leftists who are jizzing in their pants over the thought of a non-shithole African country while refusing to openly acknowledge that it is entirely fictional and no more based in reality than Hogwarts or Middle Earth...

Wait, is your serious contention that people don't know/acknowledge wakanda is fictional?

Holy shit.
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Wait, is your serious contention that people don't know/acknowledge wakanda is fictional?

They know it is, but they act, behave, and talk as if it isn't.
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What does that even mean? They talk how you talk about fictional places?
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They imply that the fiction tells us something meaningful about reality. Which is sometimes true when you're dealing with things like human emotion or whatever, but is NOT true when it comes to historical facts.
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foolm0r0n posted...

There are no individual thoughts, only individuals following a narrative script which their group defines. So when people A, B, C say X, and people D, E, F say notX, you see clear hypocrisy because you put A-F are all in the same group. There is no other way for you to see this situation because you have been convinced that all thought, political at least, comes from a groupthink.

don't want to sound like ulti but i've been saying this for years about the way muffin posts (though probably not as well thought out as you did in that post). it's like when he posts one of those "LOL CNN" meme images with two article headlines that say contradictory things back to back, as if it's impossible for him to comprehend that two people with different opinions might be writing articles for CNN. exact same thing.
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and yeah, the obvious reason for WHY muffin does this is that it requires super little effort. reminds me of when muffin insisted that i'm only against public education "because i want the government to do different things in education," instead of acknowledging that i don't want the government to be involved in education at all. it would take 10000 times more effort and thinking to attack me if you treat me as an individual with nuanced opinions, instead of a part of a collective that's essentially communist and wants the government to be involved in everything that exists.
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Yeah but you do it too and pretty much everyone who subscribes to the two party system, etc. The question is WHY this is such an attractive activity. It's not cuz it's easy as I explained.
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i wouldn't say i do it too. i always speak of "rightists," not "the right." saying certain rightists have certain opinions is just a factual statement. and when i argue with someone on the right, i don't assume they have [insert list of opinions] just because they're on the right.
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SmartMuffin posted...

They imply that the fiction tells us something meaningful about reality. Which is sometimes true when you're dealing with things like human emotion or whatever, but is NOT true when it comes to historical facts.

Fiction can tell us a ton about reality. It has pretty much been the main vehicle for theories about reality for millenia.

Wakanda is presenting a theory of society and economics. That theory has elements which can be applied to reality and also which cannot. This is common with literally all fiction.

That article recognizes this and tries to criticize the movie's societal theory, pointing out that the real world example of an AIDS-infested monarchy land-locked and severely isolated by colonialism still ended up a shit country. It's a dumb argument but at least it's an argument. What's your argument?

Also historical facts are largely fiction too. Reality isn't defined by who wrote it down. This might be why you're confusing the discussion of a superhero movie with historical facts.
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What's your argument?

That said article is largely correct.

That there is no evidence to suggest that the existence of white people is the sole thing preventing Africa from being a technological wonderland where everyone is rich and happy.
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Anyway, Lasa is far closer to being correct than foolmo is. Taking everyone as an individual is literally impossible because nobody has the time to track the nuanced opinions of every single unique individual on the planet. There's no point. Grouping and clustering are useful heuristics. They are literally the only way to work with data in real life. You group like things, and you find trends. Trends aren't 100% correlation, but they're enough of one to be useful.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Taking everyone as an individual is literally impossible because nobody has the time to track the nuanced opinions of every single unique individual on the planet.

true, but you can at least ask the people you're arguing with what their opinions are instead of going "oh you're a leftist? COMMUNIST!" only takes a modicum of effort and people will probably find debating with you a lot more pleasant!
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Or you could just understand that when I say "leftists think" what I really mean is "MOST leftists think" and that it isn't meant to be a personal attack on you and that clarifying that you agree with leftists on most things but not that one is a waste of both of our time?
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SmartMuffin posted...

Or you could just understand that when I say "leftists think" what I really mean is "MOST leftists think"

that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about when you say "lasa thinks ___" without even having asked me, not "leftists think."
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SmartMuffin posted...

That said article is largely correct.

That there is no evidence to suggest that the existence of white people is the sole thing preventing Africa from being a technological wonderland where everyone is rich and happy.

Ok so you realize people are talking about the economic theories with Wakanda. Anyways that article reallyyyyy failed in that regard.

Its only argument is that there wasn't direct colonialism there so it's an example of a non-colonized African country, which is laughable considering it's literally surrounded by South Africa. The most basic search also reveals it was a British colony until just 50 years ago. Remember what I said about historical fact not being defined by who writes it? Looks like it's more the Pakistan of Africa than anything.

And none of that stops him from praising its monarchy and polygamy-based society so I don't even know what he's arguing in that article actually. (That's rhetorical, I realize it's about hyper-nationalism in the form of "blacks should stay in their shitty countries")
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SmartMuffin posted...

Or you could just understand that when I say "leftists think" what I really mean is "MOST leftists think"

This is a moot excuse that doesn't change a thing. What you're saying is that when you say "leftists think" what you really mean is "every leftist except for the proven exceptions". Let's say you interact (talk/read/etc) with 10000 leftists in your whole life, out of a total 1 billion leftists worldwide. That means that literally 100% of individual leftists you interact with can be empirical exceptions to your rule, and you will still be hyper confident in your collectivist generalization because that's only 0.001% of all leftists. That's essentially zero! That is the problem I am describing.

And that's why this post is entirely bullshit:
SmartMuffin posted...

Taking everyone as an individual is literally impossible because nobody has the time to track the nuanced opinions of every single unique individual on the planet. There's no point. Grouping and clustering are useful heuristics. They are literally the only way to work with data in real life. You group like things, and you find trends. Trends aren't 100% correlation, but they're enough of one to be useful.

Trends don't define the individual. EVER. If you have shown to change your mind of an individual when they are different from your generalization, I wouldn't be making this post. But instead you just dismiss them as one of the 10000 outliers, or in worse cases prescribe your generalization onto them (often positively, i.e. Trump).

Individuals are the data. They are the ONLY thing that matters in statistics. Trends describe individuals and that's IT. They are nothing more than a heuristic, like you said. Servants of the individual points.

That is not how you and intellectual collectivists interact with data at all. How often do you think about the individuals behind your generalization? Do you update your model based on new individual data? You are not a data scientist. You only know care about the trend, the narrative, the script. Individuals are an obstruction and often an attack on your precious generalization.

That's why this comic continues to be so deeply relevant https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/stats

Take all the individuals you interact with as individuals. That is not difficult at all, let alone impossible. That's all I'm asking.
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SmartMuffin posted...

What's your argument?

That said article is largely correct.

That there is no evidence to suggest that the existence of white people is the sole thing preventing Africa from being a technological wonderland where everyone is rich and happy.

Whats the counter-argument though besides BS biological racism? The climate?
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SmartMuffin posted...

What's your argument?

That said article is largely correct.

That there is no evidence to suggest that the existence of white people is the sole thing preventing Africa from being a technological wonderland where everyone is rich and happy.

Imagine if all of America was taken over except detroit.

How dumb would it be to point at Detroit 100 years later and say "see how shitty American cities that were left to their own devices are??"
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in addition to what foolmo said, it's also worth pointing out that when muffin says "the left" does or thinks something, it's rarely (if ever) something even the MAJORITY of leftists are doing or thinking.

example: shortly after the presidential election, muffin argued that "the left" are hypocrites for demanding that trump voters stay calm if hillary would win, but rioted themselves after trump won... when like 0.00001% of "the left" was ACTUALLY rioting after trump won (even if we're just talking about leftists in the US and not all leftists in the world).

but whenever i point stuff like this out to muffin, he always goes "GEEZ LASA OBVIOUSLY I DON'T MEAN ALL LEFTISTS" (like he just did in post #327). cheap copout and a complete sidestepping of what the actual issue is.
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The issue there isn't "most leftists are rioting" but rather "most leftists don't care that many leftists are rioting."
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SantaRPidgey posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

What's your argument?

That said article is largely correct.

That there is no evidence to suggest that the existence of white people is the sole thing preventing Africa from being a technological wonderland where everyone is rich and happy.

Imagine if all of America was taken over except detroit.

How dumb would it be to point at Detroit 100 years later and say "see how shitty American cities that were left to their own devices are??"

Damn even Santa realizes how dumb you're being.

edit: Which is not to say, Santa, that you're an idiot so much as to say you tend to lean over to Muffin's side on things.
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I think it depends on who is doing the "taking over"

Pretty much all of Asia was taken over by socialism except Singapore and Hong Kong. And they're doing pretty fucking well!

Detroit, left to its own devices, would be a shithole - just like it is now.

New Hampshire, left to its own devices, would probably be doing pretty well...
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SmartMuffin posted...

Pretty much all of Asia was taken over by socialism except Singapore and Hong Kong. And they're doing pretty fucking well!

gee I wonder why
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SmartMuffin posted...

The issue there isn't "most leftists are rioting" but rather "most leftists don't care that many leftists are rioting."

that's not what you were arguing at the time.

also, how do you know? did you poll leftists to ask them what their opinion on the rioting was?
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The other side of the statistical coin is that if you collectivize your thought then you take the good with the bad. You can't look at some shit your group is doing and say "oh well I as an individual don't do that" or "not ALL of us do that" when 99% of the time you're acting as an agent of your collective. You've given up your individuality already at that point.

It's just not worth it. People need to be way more careful and precise about their groupings. It's necessary to group up sometimes, but individuality needs to be emphasized above all else.
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also, how do you know? did you poll leftists to ask them what their opinion on the rioting was?

Nope, I kept my ears open and all of the leftists who surround me had lots of praise for it and zero complaints.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Nope, I kept my ears open and all of the leftists who surround me had lots of praise for it and zero complaints.

do i really need to tell you that's anecdotal evidence?

and did all these leftists also demand from trump supporters that they stay calm if hillary would win before the election?
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Of course it's anecdotal. I never claimed it was otherwise.

My anecdotes aren't as good as actual data, sure. But they're still better than your nothing.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Of course it's anecdotal. I never claimed it was otherwise.

"most leftists don't care about leftists rioting" is not an anecdotal claim. an anecdotal claim would be "the leftists in my immediate surrounding didn't care about the riots and even praised them." not coincidentally, we wouldn't be having this argument right now had that been the argument you were making.
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also:

SmartMuffin posted...

My anecdotes aren't as good as actual data, sure. But they're still better than your nothing.

i'm a leftist and i thought the riots were stupid.

i guess we're even now? we've both presented meaningless anecdotes.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-sees-role-for-mental-institutions-in-stopping-mass-shootings-1519670802

Gotham City and Arkham Asylum have already proven this won't work.
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American Sniper also
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The president, who wants more school personnel to carry concealed weapons, said he would have rushed into the school, even if he didnt have a gun.

You dont know until youre tested, Mr. Trump said. But I think, I really believe Id run in there even if I didnt have a weapon.

I'm gonna guess not.

And it would be stupid for him to do so. Division of labor and all. The one decent thing Riker did was stop Picard from going on the away teams!
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He really does believe it which is cute/psychotic
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SmartMuffin posted...

The president, who wants more school personnel to carry concealed weapons, said he would have rushed into the school, even if he didnt have a gun.

You dont know until youre tested, Mr. Trump said. But I think, I really believe Id run in there even if I didnt have a weapon.

I'm gonna guess not.

And it would be stupid for him to do so. Division of labor and all. The one decent thing Riker did was stop Picard from going on the away teams!

We need a Trump clone in every school. Thats the solution to school shootings
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