Current Events > can people at least admit that capitalism requires people work shit jobs for

(+) Yeah! (+)

Those shit jobs still exist in socialist/communist systems. Only difference there is that if the government tells you that you will be cleaning shit off toilets for the rest of your life, you have no alternative (unless you consider a gulag or bullet in the head an "alternative"). At least capitalism gives you the economic means to sell you labor and skills for more money.
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The Admiral posted...

Those shit jobs still exist in socialist/communist systems. Only difference there is that if the government tells you that you will be cleaning shit off toilets for the rest of your life, you have no alternative (unless you consider a gulag or bullet in the head an "alternative"). At least capitalism gives you the economic means to sell you labor and skills for more money.

Meanwhile, under capitalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKgPo9C3NHo

bump for justice

If you want to see what non-capitalist societies look like, check out Cuba
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Sativa_Rose posted...

If you want to see what non-capitalist societies look like, check out Cuba

I know. that embargo and those sanctions really did a number on their economy, didn't they? and all those assassination attempts on their leader really did a good job of making him paranoid and forcing him to consolidate power too.
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Can we at least admit how uninterested corporations are about actual material objects carrying their brand? The products themselves were made at rock bottom prices by contractors in developing countries. Sometimes different brands are made in the same building by the same worker. You want to talk about make-believe. Sherwood=Insignia, same worker different brands and Best Buy could care less, it is make-believe.
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-Gavirulax- posted...

Forgettable posted...

What's the better alternative?

They never seem to have a reasonable one, lol.

Pay people better?

A stronger safety net or a universal basic income can exist without a society becoming communist Russia or some shit. America has never been a pure capitalistic society and never will be as that would be a hellhole. Most people seem to indeed want a hybrid society borrowing from many ideas, but loud jokers like to scream at each other about how they want to ruin the world and kill everyone.
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hockeybub89 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Forgettable posted...

What's the better alternative?

They never seem to have a reasonable one, lol.

Pay people better?

A stronger safety net or a universal basic income can exist without a society becoming communist Russia or some shit. America has never been a pure capitalistic society and never will be as that would be a hellhole. Most people seem to indeed want a hybrid society borrowing from many ideas, but loud jokers like to scream at each other about how they want to ruin the world and kill everyone.

Spoiler alert: We're never going to be pure anything, so let's all shut the fuck up about it and instead do the impossible. Try to have a reasonable discussion and improve society.

UBI will not fix the problem. read this

https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/universal-basic-income-is-a-neoliberal-plot-to-make-you-poorer/
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REMercsChamp posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?

my career is fine

Then what's the point of your ranting. Please explain

It's this thing called "empathy" that some people posses.
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averagejoel posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Forgettable posted...

What's the better alternative?

They never seem to have a reasonable one, lol.

Pay people better?

A stronger safety net or a universal basic income can exist without a society becoming communist Russia or some shit. America has never been a pure capitalistic society and never will be as that would be a hellhole. Most people seem to indeed want a hybrid society borrowing from many ideas, but loud jokers like to scream at each other about how they want to ruin the world and kill everyone.

Spoiler alert: We're never going to be pure anything, so let's all shut the fuck up about it and instead do the impossible. Try to have a reasonable discussion and improve society.

UBI will not fix the problem. read this

https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/universal-basic-income-is-a-neoliberal-plot-to-make-you-poorer/

That UBI will not fix the problem. No one thing will fix the problem anyway.
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Universal basic income?

Pfft, don't make me laugh. So more lazy, chunky people can sit on their asses and sponge off those of us with jobs and self respect?

I don't think so. Go get your own money. If you don't want to work and take care of yourself as an adult, don't eat then if you aren't even trying. Why do you deserve to be taken care of? Why cater to the lowest in society, instead of letting middle class people keep more of their own money?

They will spend it better than most poor people anyways, give people free money and they blow it out of a cannon. Using foodstamps to buy steaks, must be nice.

Keith_Valentine posted...

Universal basic income?

Pfft, don't make me laugh. So more lazy, chunky people can sit on their asses and sponge off those of us with jobs and self respect?

I don't think so. Go get your own money. If you don't want to work and take care of yourself as an adult, don't eat then if you aren't even trying. Why do you deserve to be taken care of? Why cater to the lowest in society, instead of letting middle class people keep more of their own money?

They will spend it better than most poor people anyways, give people free money and they blow it out of a cannon. Using foodstamps to buy steaks, must be nice.

It is in your selfish interests for society to help poor people. Unless you are so rich that you can afford to completely isolate yourself from common society and fly into space if Earth gets too bad, then you are being your own enemy here. Poor people don't just quietly dissolve into the ether if you tell them to go fuck themselves. They just become bigger drains on society. But hey, at least we don't have to feel icky about helping those dirty poor!
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I don't want 1980's business framework to be "the real world" for eons. I could do without the tabloid world as well. Who gives a rat's ass about what Kim Kardashian is doing today?
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The Admiral posted...

Those shit jobs still exist in socialist/communist systems. Only difference there is that if the government tells you that you will be cleaning shit off toilets for the rest of your life, you have no alternative (unless you consider a gulag or bullet in the head an "alternative"). At least capitalism gives you the economic means to sell you labor and skills for more money.

lol love how none of the partisans addressed this. These shit jobs are not going just to disappear under other economies.

hockeybub89 posted...

Keith_Valentine posted...

Universal basic income?

Pfft, don't make me laugh. So more lazy, chunky people can sit on their asses and sponge off those of us with jobs and self respect?

I don't think so. Go get your own money. If you don't want to work and take care of yourself as an adult, don't eat then if you aren't even trying. Why do you deserve to be taken care of? Why cater to the lowest in society, instead of letting middle class people keep more of their own money?

They will spend it better than most poor people anyways, give people free money and they blow it out of a cannon. Using foodstamps to buy steaks, must be nice.

It is in your selfish interests for society to help poor people. Unless you are so rich that you can afford to completely isolate yourself from common society and fly into space if Earth gets too bad, then you are being your own enemy here. Poor people don't just quietly dissolve into the ether if you tell them to go fuck themselves. They just become bigger drains on society. But hey, at least we don't have to feel icky about helping those dirty poor!

Dude, please don't use that generic shit @hockeybub89. I grew up so poor we didn't get to order burgers with cheese on them when we went to b bops until I was 13. You get that? Because my mom would be damned if she's gona pay 35 cents for cheese, she'd hit the drive through After the supermarket and cheese it herself. That's where ik coming from, and I could go on.

I love wic, I know people need help with foodstamps at times, poor people should have access to certain important preventive medical care, including dentistry. This isn't about fuck the poor, I got mine, jack! This is a guy who grew up right there in it, and you know what I learned?

Only those families can pull themselves out of it. By changing their lifestyles, changing the way they eat, work, and get by. We worked the garage sales, I didn't get new clothes every year like other kids. Me and my dad picked up shit of the curb in rich neighborhoods, sometimes for us and sometimes to sell on ebay. We worked side carpentry jobs on the weekend, etc, my mom babysat

WE made it work because we were proud and we wanted to take care of ourselves. I know for a fact that many people nowadays do not put in the efforts and make the sacrifices that we did. We didn't have cable TV until I was out of the fucking house, a cell phone was unheard of. As was a new vehicle. Can these people all say the same? No!

They say gimme, gimme, gimme, it's too hard. BULLSHIT , I lived it.

PBusted posted...

The Admiral posted...

Those shit jobs still exist in socialist/communist systems. Only difference there is that if the government tells you that you will be cleaning shit off toilets for the rest of your life, you have no alternative (unless you consider a gulag or bullet in the head an "alternative"). At least capitalism gives you the economic means to sell you labor and skills for more money.

lol love how none of the partisans addressed this. These shit jobs are not going just to disappear under other economies.

#metoo reflects moral problems, you know the people in power are immoral.
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ehhwhatever posted...

PBusted posted...

The Admiral posted...

Those shit jobs still exist in socialist/communist systems. Only difference there is that if the government tells you that you will be cleaning shit off toilets for the rest of your life, you have no alternative (unless you consider a gulag or bullet in the head an "alternative"). At least capitalism gives you the economic means to sell you labor and skills for more money.

lol love how none of the partisans addressed this. These shit jobs are not going just to disappear under other economies.

#metoo reflects moral problems, you know the people in power are immoral.

What

Keith_Valentine posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Keith_Valentine posted...

Universal basic income?

Pfft, don't make me laugh. So more lazy, chunky people can sit on their asses and sponge off those of us with jobs and self respect?

I don't think so. Go get your own money. If you don't want to work and take care of yourself as an adult, don't eat then if you aren't even trying. Why do you deserve to be taken care of? Why cater to the lowest in society, instead of letting middle class people keep more of their own money?

They will spend it better than most poor people anyways, give people free money and they blow it out of a cannon. Using foodstamps to buy steaks, must be nice.

It is in your selfish interests for society to help poor people. Unless you are so rich that you can afford to completely isolate yourself from common society and fly into space if Earth gets too bad, then you are being your own enemy here. Poor people don't just quietly dissolve into the ether if you tell them to go fuck themselves. They just become bigger drains on society. But hey, at least we don't have to feel icky about helping those dirty poor!

Dude, please don't use that generic shit @hockeybub89. I grew up so poor we didn't get to order burgers with cheese on them when we went to b bops until I was 13. You get that? Because my mom would be damned if she's gona pay 35 cents for cheese, she'd hit the drive through After the supermarket and cheese it herself. That's where ik coming from, and I could go on.

I love wic, I know people need help with foodstamps at times, poor people should have access to certain important preventive medical care, including dentistry. This isn't about fuck the poor, I got mine, jack! This is a guy who grew up right there in it, and you know what I learned?

Only those families can pull themselves out of it. By changing their lifestyles, changing the way they eat, work, and get by. We worked the garage sales, I didn't get new clothes every year like other kids. Me and my dad picked up shit of the curb in rich neighborhoods, sometimes for us and sometimes to sell on ebay. We worked side carpentry jobs on the weekend, etc, my mom babysat

WE made it work because we were proud and we wanted to take care of ourselves. I know for a fact that many people nowadays do not put in the efforts and make the sacrifices that we did. We didn't have cable TV until I was out of the fucking house, a cell phone was unheard of. As was a new vehicle. Can these people all say the same? No!

They say gimme, gimme, gimme, it's too hard. BULLSHIT , I lived it.

It's a damn shame your life was like that. Millions of people obviously don't pull their way out, so we should help them rather than hope they can do so.

Your story is a statement against society, not in favor of it. No one should ever have to suffer as your family did. Everyone doesn't have that superhuman strength to endure and eventually thrive and we shouldn't expect that of them. I heard America is supposed to be first world, not motherfucking India. People think they are the rule when they fight through hardships better than most people when they are obviously the exception.
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M_Live posted...

I always felt like the "those people should get better jobs!" argument was a complete logical fallacy because sure, some people can do that, but there are a finite number of jobs, and the higher you go up, the less openings there are. Not everyone can be the CEO. Not everyone can be a doctor, or a police officer, or a teacher. Someone has to cashier at Walmart, or clean the bathrooms.

This bring up another thing I've been pondering recently is we're on the cusp of the automated age. This means that a lot more mundane jobs will be replaced with machines soon, however more skilled and technical jobs such as doctors will still require humanity. What happens when there's very few "human" jobs but we still have a population that needs sustaining? The populace at this point has a universal basic income but what of the skilled positions? Do the few that have to work get extra benefits? Or are they just used as slave labor?
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A bunch of ignorant yuppies harping on about how callous they are?

Must be a day ending in "Y".

It's like I keep saying: Not enough goddamn lamp posts.
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It wasn't suffering at all, hockeybub. That's my point. It was hard, yes, and it was a struggle. But we loved each other and it never felt bad at all. Ironically we were happier and closer back then but that's another story.

It didn't take superhuman strength, lol , it just took effort. And it made me tougher and taught me to appreciate things more. In short, it was the best thing that could have happened for us. And we worked our way up to upper middle class and that's the American dream.

Hockey, if you Give people the American dream, they won't love it or understand it as well as if they earned it themselves. People like yourself mean well and think you are helping, but you really aren't. There is a natural order where people must be taught to fend for themselves, that is necessary for self respect as a human. Do you see all these fat, unhappy people on painkillers and government assistance. That is BECAUSE they have no self worth because they know they rely on something else for their survival and they are dependent. It's not psychologically a good thing, sir. Dependence on government is probably one of the Worst things for a citizen.

Especially if the government Wants you to be down and weak so you'll vote for them. Have things really gotten better for the poor? Or has the income gap actually begun to increase? That isn't capitalism, my friend, that is reflective of people who have given up and accepted their lot in life. And instead they choose to complain about the rich and unfairness instead of competing in the real world. That's the saddest thing of all, to live defeated