Current Events > can people at least admit that capitalism requires people work shit jobs for

(+) Yeah! (+)

shit pay and if you accept this, you're basically condemning people to a life of living paycheck to paycheck?

and no, those jobs are not "for teenagers and people in college"

Yes. Some people get bad breaks, but the vast majority are lazy or criminals that cant get better jobs.

nb4 liberals get offended
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They refuse to concede that minimum wage jobs are for anyone other than "teenagers and people in college."

It's sad. One day, vast swathes of the country literally will not have money to eat. You know what happens to the bourgeoisie then?

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?
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_Rinku_ posted...

You know what happens to the bourgeoisie then?

Rousseau did
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REMercsChamp posted...

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?

my career is fine

AlternativeFAQS posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?

my career is fine

Then what's the point of your ranting. Please explain
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If you don't want to work a shit job, you are under zero obligation from anyone to do so.

So... no.
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I'd argue that every other system is going to have a sizable portion of people in a similar situation, even if the specifics are different. At least until we hit the point of post scarcity.
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Can we admit every economic system in the history of humanity requires people work shit jobs, were just at a point in history where the jobs are less shittier than past decades and centuries
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capitalism requires

Isn't this an oxymoron?

I was under the impression that capitalism is not enforced on anyone, and you can work and play where one wants too.

r4X0r posted...

If you don't want to work a shit job, you are under zero obligation from anyone to do so.

So... no.

who's going to do them?

AlternativeFAQS posted...

r4X0r posted...

If you don't want to work a shit job, you are under zero obligation from anyone to do so.

So... no.

who's going to do them?

Someone more qualified than you.

r4X0r posted...

If you don't want to work a shit job, you are under zero obligation from anyone to do so.

So... no.

"The only jobs available to me are shit therefore it is my choice to starve"
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REMercsChamp posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?

my career is fine

Then what's the point of your ranting. Please explain

Ah, a classic example of fuck-you-got-mineism

QlJGamer posted...

capitalism requires

Isn't this an oxymoron?

I was under the impression that capitalism is not enforced on anyone, and you can work and play where one wants too.

Not if you insist on affording food and shelter.
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dolomedes posted...

there's not much excuse for the extreme disparity between the pay of the people working said shit jobs and the owners of the company

Except you know... education, experience, human capital

I feel like that any given scale of economy (local, county, state, region, country, and global) won't advance any quicker than its lowest class.
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dolomedes posted...

Annihilated posted...

Except you know... education, experience, human capital

*makes jerking off gesture*

Pretty much what I imagine you do at work all day.

REMercsChamp posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Ever think about applying yourself and making something out of your career?

my career is fine

Then what's the point of your ranting. Please explain

im not talking about myself.

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.
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0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death
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Denmark is a capitalist country
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($12/hr is fucking nothing, btw)
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averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.
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Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.

People have to work to support themselves and are still unable to support themselves working 60 hours a week.
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butthole666 posted...

Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.

People have to work to support themselves and are still unable to support themselves working 60 hours a week.

Many many many more people can.
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@FLUFFYGERM can you fight this battle for me? I'm tired. Tell them about how much capitalism decreased poverty and all that.
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Drpooplol posted...

butthole666 posted...

Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.

People have to work to support themselves and are still unable to support themselves working 60 hours a week.

Many many many more people can.

The average US rent is $1234/month.

For rent to cost less than a quarter of income, as suggested, you'd need to make $4924 a month.

At 40 hours a week, that's $30.77/hr.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr
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averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

What does this have to do with anything Ive said?

The concept is simple:

If you want a better job, go out and find one. If you dont want to put in the effort to do so, dont cry about it.
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The world needs ditch diggers too
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0TiamaT0 posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

What does this have to do with anything Ive said?

The concept is simple:

If you want a better job, go out and find one. If you dont want to put in the effort to do so, dont cry about it.

someone still has to do those jobs
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averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

What does this have to do with anything Ive said?

The concept is simple:

If you want a better job, go out and find one. If you dont want to put in the effort to do so, dont cry about it.

someone still has to do those jobs

Yep, and those will be the guys who don't bother applying themselves to get better jobs. The system works itself out.
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averagejoel posted...

Drpooplol posted...

butthole666 posted...

Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.

People have to work to support themselves and are still unable to support themselves working 60 hours a week.

Many many many more people can.

The average US rent is $1234/month.

For rent to cost less than a quarter of income, as suggested, you'd need to make $4924 a month.

At 40 hours a week, that's $30.77/hr.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr

I would be real concerned if the number of workers earning minimum wage or less made up more than 3.3% of all hourly workers
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REMercsChamp posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

What does this have to do with anything Ive said?

The concept is simple:

If you want a better job, go out and find one. If you dont want to put in the effort to do so, dont cry about it.

someone still has to do those jobs

Yep, and those will be the guys who don't bother applying themselves to get better jobs. The system works itself out.

honestly, the extent to which you're able to miss the point here is pretty spectacular
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Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

Drpooplol posted...

butthole666 posted...

Drpooplol posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

Oh no, people have to work to support themselves, we truly live in terrible times.

People have to work to support themselves and are still unable to support themselves working 60 hours a week.

Many many many more people can.

The average US rent is $1234/month.

For rent to cost less than a quarter of income, as suggested, you'd need to make $4924 a month.

At 40 hours a week, that's $30.77/hr.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr

I would be real concerned if the number of workers earning minimum wage or less made up more than 3.3% of all hourly workers

cool. this didn't address my point at all
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averagejoel posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

averagejoel posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

There are plenty of entry-level jobs out there that dont have anything to do with fast food, but will get you (eventually) to $15/hr.

The company I work for has a factory that starts new hires at $12/hr. They post a very large sign when they need new people - its facing an incredibly busy street at a four-corner stop light.

This is no experience needed work. We still have to hire through a temp-agency, because so few people come in and apply.

Too many people today want things handed to them, rather than even doing the bare minimum to do it for themselves.

ok? shitty jobs still exist, and some people are still forced to choose between working those jobs and starving to death

What does this have to do with anything Ive said?

The concept is simple:

If you want a better job, go out and find one. If you dont want to put in the effort to do so, dont cry about it.

someone still has to do those jobs

Yep, and those will be the guys who don't bother applying themselves to get better jobs. The system works itself out.

honestly, the extent to which you're able to miss the point here is pretty spectacular

What's the point? That everyone can't have a mansion and a Lamborghini? Cry me a river dude.
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REMercsChamp posted...

What's the point? That everyone can't have a mansion and a Lamborghini? Cry me a river dude.

if I rolled my eyes any harder, both of my corneas would detach. don't make shit up and pretend that this addresses anything I said
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This is like saying capitalism requires one company to eventually become a monopoly

But that's not true thanks to the Sherman Antitrust Act (in America)

Government isn't necessarily a good thing though. It's thanks to the government that a college degree has become a requirement for so many jobs when it shouldn't be.
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averagejoel posted...

The average US rent is $1234/month.

LOL

averagejoel posted...

cool. this didn't address my point at all

Whats the point? That a certain percentage of people will always be in poverty under the current system? When humanity has an example of a perfect system where 0% of its population lives in destitution, get back to me. Until then, the system we have today has done a far greater job of providing financial security to people than any other economic system that has been implemented in history thus far. But if you do have an example of such an economic system that has already been implemented in reality, please let me know. I would much rather build and adapt from the current system we have to increase financial security for the massses than shake things up completely, modern society has been too good for billions of people to upset the status quo in a revolutionary way
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agreed, automation is the way to go in the long term
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Capitalism does not require that people work shit jobs. One of the major aspects of capitalism is that resources are allocated efficiently. By "efficiently," we mean that resources are allocated in a way that satisfies demand in the market place. Over time, demand for goods and services creates competition to provide those goods and services.

The result of that competition is that goods and services will cost less. One of the main ways to provide goods and services that cost less is to be efficient in how you produce those things. That is why a lot of jobs no longer exist. For example, people are no longer manually picking cotton or other types of crops. Being efficient in the quest for profit means finding ways to reduce the most expensive costs of production, and often times human labor is a huge cost center.

So you can argue that capitalism deprecates the repetitive manual labor and creates brand new industries like artificial intelligence and space exploration, both of which are bringing in huge wages and benefits as companies compete to hire people in those spaces. The people who work shit jobs for shit pay (IE minimum wage pay for service jobs or things like that) tend to be on the younger side, and last I checked a very small number of people who work hourly get minimum wage for their troubles.

Ideally that number would be 0, but we don't yet have an economy that has rendered that work obsolete for humans. But we're getting there, with things like Amazon's new shopping center where you just walk in and pick up the items you want and walk out, autonomous driving, etc.

By the way, there was an interesting experience on universal basic income in Kenya. The tl;dr of that experiment was that when people received the money, an overwhelming number of them invested it into education and business ideas so that they could increase the number of income streams they had available to them. Free trade and profit are wonderful things that pull entire generations out of abject poverty, and they are hallmarks of capitalism. When you enable people to drive their own destiny, they overwhelmingly engage in the core tenets of capitalism and they succeed in bettering their lot in life.

Kenya basic income experiment:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/6/14007230/kenya-basic-income-givedirectly-experiment-village

Amazon automating the shopping experience:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronaldholden/2018/01/22/amazon-go-launches-its-long-awaited-mini-mart/#1e197e2b5864

GM explaining how autonomous driving can be both affordable and profitable:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2017/11/30/gm-driverless-cars-can-affordable-and-profitable/910608001/

All three of these stories are great examples of what capitalism can do to introduce new experiences, new industries, and cost effective solutions that are accessible to everyone. It's no surprise that poverty is disappearing very fast if we look at the entire global economy.
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Also, here's an interesting discussion on socialism vs capitalism between averagejoel and myself.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76239702

It's pretty lengthy but so far it's been a good conversation and I think a lot of misconceptions about capitalism are cleared up in that topic. For example, socialists and communists often argue that capitalism is a zero-sum game where there must be losers in order for there to be winners. That is demonstrably untrue. They also argue that in order for me to earn $1 dollar, you must lose $1 dollar since generating new wealth is impossible without taking it from someone else. That is also demonstrably untrue.

Capitalism enables entire populations to succeed and incorporate brand new wealth into their local economy. Nothing else does that, and we can see this - if there was anything else that could do this, we'd expect the people in Kenya to self-organize and establish the types of communes and collectives that socialists and communists talk about. But ultimately since it's not within human nature to do so, and since socialism and communism do not lend themselves to development and economic growth, these countries remain stagnant and bare until they are allowed to incorporate themselves into the global economy.

Helping them start businesses and empower entrepreneurs is the best way to eliminate poverty in those regions. In fact, free trade is recognized as one of the main reasons why Bangladesh (formerly one of the poorest countries on the planet) is now due to eliminate abject poverty within the same generation that started adopting entrepreneurial visions and business.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2013/06/20/bangladesh-reduced-number-of-poor-by-16-million-in-a-decade

http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/598241468205488437/Trade-liberalization-growth-and-poverty-reduction-the-case-of-Bangladesh
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If anything, it is arguable that it is socialism and communism that means at least some people have to work shit jobs. When you mandate or demand that everyone be employed, you create a society where people will dig ditches and fill them just to be "employed."

Whereas capitalists will take every opportunity to eliminate the shittiest jobs, which tend to be the jobs that can be automated. Here's an example: No one likes being a cashier. Soon that job won't exist anymore. Where a commune or collective might've never had the incentive to eliminate useless work like that, capitalists will be efficient and innovative. Even if cab drivers won't always be a thing, at least ride sharing will be much more cost-effective and safe when autonomous cars are doing the driving.

Some people complain about the automation, but that's not much different from how Luddites used to destroy machines because they didn't want machines to pick cotton or to bind books or to do other repetitive and dull and soul-crushing manual labor, since it represented being put out of work.

In any case, people should make up their mind. When capitalism means automation, people complain about "muh jerbs" being taken away. When capitalists don't automate, people complain about having to work shitty jobs. Capitalism is an effective tool for eliminating human labor and reducing the costs of goods and services. What this means is that we all enjoy a higher standard of living for a lower cost. If you really want to eliminate shitty jobs, we need to be more capitalistic.
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