Current Events > Looked at the CDC reports for deaths for black males >_>

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well, after two moderations for citing FBI.GOV and Justive.GOV I'm done risking it.
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Thrillwell posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

Thrillwell posted...

go watch DOPE on Netflix

you won't ave any further questions afterwards

Which leads back to what KStateKing17 was saying in his post.

Except the whole single mother thing. I've seen and friends with strong women of color that are great mothers. Their children behave very well. Having grandparent in the mix helps immensely.
I've also seen a few single white mothers go around with victim mentality and their children suffer.

I've seen how protective black mothers are in general to their children and I feel this just isn't the reason male black children would wanna immediately go to the dark side.

Peer pressure Yes, Single parent not so much.

growing up in a single parent household vs a two parent household has a dramatic affect on children and is one of the main determining factors of your child's future & upwards mobility. sure some people can thrive in a single family environment like you stated above, but it's statistically proven that children with two parents have a much better future
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CE is one of the worst places to have this kinda discussion
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FrisbeeDude posted...

CE is one of the worst places to have this kinda discussion

Oh I don't know, I think it goes well.

"This happens and it's racist!"
"Actually that happens because of this perfectly legitimate reason."
"THAT'S OFFENSIVE!"
*moderated*

Actually I take it back, you're right.
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And that's the problem- explaining why something happens using statistics from the Department of Justice is considered "racist trolling?" Can't have intelligent adult conversations when half the people are looking to call anyone they disagree with a racist troll.
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It helps when you have a TC willling to be rational and yet critical to solving a problem without pointing fingers.
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r4X0r posted...

And that's the problem- explaining why something happens using statistics from the Department of Justice is considered "racist trolling?" Can't have intelligent adult conversations when half the people are looking to call anyone they disagree with a racist troll.

You seem to be upset over something that happened in the past. I don't have context for this, so I don't can't really speak to it, however, I would wager a guess that it had something to do with the amount of African americans incarcerated or gunned down, and your response was statistics that have to do with black people and violent crimes.

Before I have continue, I will have to say, I generally agree with you if this is your point, and your point is valid that policing is in part influenced by the communities that they are around.

I'm a firm believer that this is a generally useless conversation to have. As a black person I have experienced racism first hand, thus, I understand how it feels to be stopped while not doing anything wrong and be questioned and humiliated in front of my friends for no other reason that fitting the description of "a black person". There is no comfort whatsoever to this humiliation in "Well, black people DO cause a lot of violence disproportionate to their population size". This seems to imply that I somehow DESERVE to be profiled as a matter of pragmatism. Nobody ever applies this to men in general. Men commit much more violence disproportionate to their population, but nobody but the most ardent feminist would argue that men deserve to be feared as a matter of pragmatism.

If I'm off the mark, let me know, but you have to understand where this response to your comments come from. There is no perfectly legitimate reason for discrimination or racism. There may be understandable ones, and there may be frames of context in which you have to understand them, but all in all, it often seems that people are basically arguing that it is okay to judge people based on the color of their skin provided that enough people with that skin color cause trouble.
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shockthemonkey posted...

TC is coming at this as a problem solver and not as a racist troll though.

THIS
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r4X0r posted...

Well, after two moderations for citing FBI.GOV and Justive.GOV I'm done risking it.

Lol it happened again?
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AdviceMan posted...

If I'm off the mark, let me know, but you have to understand where this response to your comments come from. There is no perfectly legitimate reason for discrimination or racism. There may be understandable ones, and there may be frames of context in which you have to understand them, but all in all, it often seems that people are basically arguing that it is okay to judge people based on the color of their skin provided that enough people with that skin color cause trouble.

Again, the problem is that pointing out "X demographic has that problem because they commit crime at Y rate" is not "discrimination or racism" nor is it "judging people." It's simple statistical figures. Nobody's saying "All people of X demographic are like this."

It's just people looking to call somebody else a racist because that somebody challenged their worldview. You want racism? That would be freaking out over somebody presenting simple information on race straight from the Fed because it hurts their feelings.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

r4X0r posted...

Well, after two moderations for citing FBI.GOV and Justive.GOV I'm done risking it.

Lol it happened again?

Ive had it happen to me once. It got overturned though.
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Maybe you should make a topic asking if it is offensive to post simple statistical facts from the FBI crime site and see how many people get offended.
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Look at this chart. Do you see what most of these cities have in common? That's right, they're run by Democrats.
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Systematic racism is of course a significant part in creating these conditions.
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Paper_Okami posted...

Systematic racism is of course a significant part in creating these conditions.

Can you be more specific? Which policies are creating it?
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Nomadic View posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

Systematic racism is of course a significant part in creating these conditions.

Can you be more specific? Which policies are creating it?

Given that single motherhood is one of the biggest indicators of generational poverty, I'd say the welfare trap is what creates it.

And before somebody once again gets triggered and calls me a racist, the links between single motherhood and poverty are close as makes no difference to the same across races.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Legalizing drugs would go a long way towards lowering that violent crime

Legalize drugs.
+
Massive infrastructure bill to get people jobs and* get rid of all the lead pipes n shit.
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

Look at this chart. Do you see what most of these cities have in common? That's right, they're run by Democrats.

I'd imagine this is because places where homicides are high have a lot of low income people, dense populations, and those people would greatly prefer democrats to republicans.

But in any case, this topic is being derailed, because it seems a group of posters are using this as an opportunity to air their political and personal grievances. That was not this topics' intentions, and that's why I didn't bring up things like voter suppression, and past policies that were designed to funnel money out of black neighborhoods. It's about moving forward, not looking backward.

If you want to add insight, by all means, please feel free. If you want to point out everything you hate about snowflake cuck libs, please do it elsewhere.
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AdviceMan posted...

But in any case, this topic is being derailed, because it seems a group of posters are using this as an opportunity to air their political and personal grievances.

Welcome to CE
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There are a lot of reason why.

- Lack of a father figures. It's even worst if the mom is uneducated.
- Gang culture. Kids cut class and look for ways to make quick money, which usually leads to illegal activities.
- Lack of accountability. Whenever something happens, people blame the white man instead of looking at the real cause of the problems. BLM is the biggest enabler of this kind of behavior.
- Systematic enabling by Democrats. Give them freebies instead of creating an environment that encourages people to work hard and be productive. If Blacks are successful, Dems lose a good part of their voting base.

There are a lot of blacks that makes it out of the bad neighborhoods and become successful, but many get influenced by their peers into doing something illegal. Lacking good parental figures is also a huge problem because the kid will grow up without any respect and regards to the rules. That's why they get in trouble with cops in the first place.
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"Why do the mods and other call me on my concern race trolling?! I'm just citing stats!"

Pretty much this topic in a nutshell lmao
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Nomadic View posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

Systematic racism is of course a significant part in creating these conditions.

Can you be more specific? Which policies are creating it?

Intentional segregation
Black people are more likely to be passed over for jobs even if they have similar or better qualifications

Black people are frequently passed over as home buyers.

More likely to get shot by police.

Worse sentencing for the same crimes.
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AdviceMan posted...

I'd imagine this is because places where homicides are high have a lot of low income people, dense populations, and those people would greatly prefer democrats to republicans.

But in any case, this topic is being derailed, because it seems a group of posters are using this as an opportunity to air their political and personal grievances. That was not this topics' intentions, and that's why I didn't bring up things like voter suppression, and past policies that were designed to funnel money out of black neighborhoods. It's about moving forward, not looking backward.

If you want to add insight, by all means, please feel free. If you want to point out everything you hate about snowflake cuck libs, please do it elsewhere.

And yet, I constantly see people try to blame a greater power. Maybe you dont want to talk about it, but it doesnt mean it isnt a huge factor. If you turn a blind eye to it, then you are ignoring one of the biggest contributors to the problem.

Imagine me giving my kids allowance every week and they dont do any productive to earn it. How about if Im lenient on their infractions? Do you think my kids will be hard working successful people when they grow up? The same concept applies to a community. If the people who governs it does the same thing and be lenient on crime, while they give freebies away, they create an environment where crime will foster.
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

Look at this chart. Do you see what most of these cities have in common? That's right, they're run by Democrats.

You're kidding yourself if you think Republicans care more. It's all a feather in a cap for both sides and they could care less what actually happens to the people as long as there is something they can spin as a positive
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I4NRulez posted...

You're kidding yourself if you think Republicans care more. It's all a feather in a cap for both sides and they could care less what actually happens to the people as long as there is something they can spin as a positive

Its not about being caring. Its a different way to govern. Look at what Giuliani did in the early 90s in regard to crime in NYC. That is positive change and I dont need to spin anything.
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Have you guys ever tried, you know, not killing each other? Seems like that'd be a solid first step.
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shockthemonkey posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

I4NRulez posted...

You're kidding yourself if you think Republicans care more. It's all a feather in a cap for both sides and they could care less what actually happens to the people as long as there is something they can spin as a positive

Its not about being caring. Its a different way to govern. Look at what Giuliani did in the early 90s in regard to crime in NYC. That is positive change and I dont need to spin anything.

Didnt the crime rate dropped at roughly the same rates as the national urban average with higher rates of incarceration?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayoralty_of_Rudy_Giuliani

You can read more about it. There's even a chart where crime rates dropped faster than the national average.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Except history has proven that being hard on crime in poor, black neighborhoods means arresting and locking up as many fathers as possible. Which creates one parent households without a breadwinner.

If the answer was so simple I bet wed have figured it out by now.

You're assuming that those fathers were there for the their children to begin with. If they did things that warrant them being locked up, I don't think the term 'breadwinner' suits them.

The reality is that you have to start something. If you take most of the criminals off the streets...wouldn't that lead to lower homicide rates? I think it definitely would. It would also take most of the bad influence off of the streets and maybe create an environment where people can focus on educational achievement instead of crime.
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NOM posted...

Have you guys ever tried, you know, not killing each other? Seems like that'd be a solid first step.

They wouldn't need to kill each other if drugs were legalized.
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Related: Here's a black motivational speaker chewing out a majority black school for half-assing their own education because it isn't "cool":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKf4smTwVUw
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

NOM posted...

Have you guys ever tried, you know, not killing each other? Seems like that'd be a solid first step.

They wouldn't need to kill each other if drugs were legalized.

LMAO
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Ah. The first page went so well.

Oh well, I'm abandoning this topic.
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AdviceMan posted...

Ah. The first page went so well.

Oh well, I'm abandoning this topic.

Lol did you really think it wouldn't devolve into this. Come on man. It's CE

Yup CE is trash
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KStateKing17 posted...

I feel like there's a combination of things. Poorer communities will more than likely have an any means necessary type of mentality. Males in general are encouraged even at a young age to toughen up and start fighting. I also feel like a lot of black men aren't encouraged to be as ambitious as everyone else. Guys from broken/divorced families frequently get compared to the "failure fathers" when they do something wrong, certain shows and music is frowned upon, homophobia is really strong as well.

All the pressure of having to be a model black male turns a lot of guys off imo. Once they don't believe they can pull it off, they give up and turn to negativity, drugs, and alcohol.

The shitty education system doesn't help either.

10/10
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NOM posted...

Have you guys ever tried, you know, not killing each other? Seems like that'd be a solid first step.

I've never killed anyone.
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AdviceMan posted...

Ah. The first page went so well.

Oh well, I'm abandoning this topic.

You just want to hear want you wanted to hear. When the cold hard truth comes, you're going to abandon ship?

That's why you have the stats you have now. People dancing around the problems instead of solving them. When the truth comes, people run away because it hurt their feelings.
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Solar_Crimson posted...

NOM posted...

Have you guys ever tried, you know, not killing each other? Seems like that'd be a solid first step.

I've never killed anyone.

Yet
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

.

Yikes. I grew up in St Louis. My parents are still there. When I was 7 in 1986 my folks had to move back to St Louis as my mother's father had passed away and my mother's mother could not care for herself and her sister was too young. So my mother and father got a house, in Jennings (not far from Ferguson for a now more notable reference) and my aunt and grandmother lived with us, until my grandmother passed away, and my aunt got married.

Growing up as a teen since we went to a church further from where we lived, I became friends with guys from Normandy and within the city limits. My father's parents were stayed in St Louis, and they lived in Wellston. When I started getting around in cars with friends and we go hang out and stuff, we started getting pulled over a lot. My best friend drove his father's Caddy so yeah that was of course a indicator. I never really thought about it much then. I really knew nothing else. I mean I knew why we were getting pulled over a lot, but it was just a part of life.

In 1998 I moved out of my parents home to an apartment in Ferguson. I had been working at Quicktrip from when I was in high school and started working at the store on Florissant Rd and I-70. The Quicktrip that was damaged during the riots that took place. I would see the results first hand of families in poorer neighborhoods. I worked at this store the longest in the 6 years I worked for Quicktrip. The second longest was the one I started in close to our house in Jennings.

Just a few months back, my wife and I were watching Straight Out of Compton. I never really talked much about those times in St Louis with her. And while she was watching it she made the comment about how horrible the police treated black people in some neighborhoods/cities/states. She was completely at a lost to really understand it. (For reference she grew up in a small town in Oklahoma.) I told her that there wasn't much exaggeration in the movie even if for dramatic effect. To her to comment "police really treat black people like that" and I said yeah, I know first hand several times. We had a long conversation about that, and why I never talked about it with her.

My long winded point is, to someone that has never experienced prejudice, or even witnessed it, if not the victim, you really can't understand. If I had not grown up in the environment I did, I too might not have the outlook on life that I do. It's very easy to get emotional on all sides. Because we were in the "gangsta" cars blasting the gangsta rap of the 90's. So while no we were not out to commit any crimes, we also weren't helping ourselves be less conspicuous to the police that who already had an excuse to pull us over and harass us without needing any others. Thankfully I grew up and came to this conclusion long before it enveloped me.

Not that I still don't listen to much of the same music now. :-) Good rap is good rap.
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

That's why you have the stats you have now. People dancing around the problems instead of solving them. When the truth comes, people run away because it hurt their feelings.

It appears that your feelings were the ones that hurt. If so, I apologize. However, when I asked for solutions I wanted ones that were based in fact, and ones that had some sort of thought put into them. It seems relatively clear that you came into this topic with agenda with your first post.

If you're wondering why I'm being so polite, it's because I realize that in your mind, you are absolutely right, thus, as I said earlier, there is little reason in having this discussion. It would only serve to make one or both of us annoyed at each other. You seem determined to get my attention, or to have me engage you seriously, which will only get you a "You don't know what you're talking about." or an insult, which I don't particularly feel like doing.

This topic is about black men killing black men, and we have posters coming in saying the problem and the way to fix the problem is to stop the problem. Or to say "Black people are the problem". If that is true, and you truly believe it is, then there is no discussion to be had. I don't think that's the case, obviously, so you saying that it is seems like a direct attempt to instigate a fight.

If you really want someone go off on you, you should find someone else, I don't really feel like doing it.
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AdviceMan posted...

It appears that your feelings were the ones that hurt. If so, I apologize. However, when I asked for solutions I wanted ones that were based in fact, and ones that had some sort of thought put into them. It seems relatively clear that you came into this topic with agenda with your first post.

If you're wondering why I'm being so polite, it's because I realize that in your mind, you are absolutely right, thus, as I said earlier, there is little reason in having this discussion. It would only serve to make one or both of us annoyed at each other. You seem determined to get my attention, or to have me engage you seriously, which will only get you a "You don't know what you're talking about." or an insult, which I don't particularly feel like doing.

This topic is about black men killing black men, and we have posters coming in saying the problem and the way to fix the problem is to stop the problem. Or to say "Black people are the problem". If that is true, and you truly believe it is, then there is no discussion to be had. I don't think that's the case, obviously, so you saying that it is seems like a direct attempt to instigate a fight.

If you really want someone go off on you, you should find someone else, I don't really feel like doing it.

Why do you need to apologize? I don't ask for an apology from anyone. You see an agenda, I see a direct connection. If you don't like stats, why bother posting the CDC stat? You mentioned in the first post that the biggest threat to young black men are other young black men...not me. Or did you already forgot your original post?

At no point did I say "Black people are the problem", you did and you believe it. I mentioned the lack of parenting, gang culture, lack of accountability and wrong government as the main problems and I believe it.

You invited different viewpoints the moment you opened the topic, but you don't seem to open to accepting different viewpoints.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Your solutions were 30 second thoughts that have already been tried and have gotten us to this point. Youre not fooling anyone when you pretend otherwise.

At what point did they try? Those cities have been Democratic strongholds for over 50 years. Same policies and same mindsets. Nothing has been tried.
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