Current Events > Path of Exile - how easy is it to badly nerf a build?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I took one look at the skill tree and deduced that build options are nigh unlimited, so that suggests to me either a) you can do just about anything, the game is flexible like that, or b) if you go down the wrong tree you're going to end up like Kimahri.

I chose a marauder.
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If you really dont want to start over i think it is better to research at least a bit of a build so that you know what is good in the endgame.
Best way is just playing what you think is cool or something and when you get rewally stuck just start over with a different character and all the stuff from your other character in your chest so you can get to the same point a little faster.
I last played the game before the update with the added acts so I dont know if that is true any more. I started the game up last time and got a full respec for my whole character because of the update which is great too but that doesnt help you so...
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It's not TOO hard to wing a build. Look around your area, see what stats are available, pick up a socket or three, get the life nodes and hunt down your damage type. However there's a metric ton of skill interactions that are either less optimal or just plain bad. If you go with sub-optimal output you won't peter out you will literally plant your face into a wall.

If you're just starting out, you need to look up a cheap/efficient build so you don't end up at map tier 8 needing 50ex to unlock your true destiny at best, or just flat out worthless at worst.
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it's not that one poorly placed skill point will nerf your build--the tree is only part of it, the skill gems are the rest, and you can always swap those out.

it's more that consistently neglecting life for +damage will result in you getting squashed in one hit by an enemy that would otherwise require two, which makes a battle vastly more difficult. you also don't want to make the path to your key nodes any longer than it needs to be.

the basic rules of poe are:

defense > offense

max your non-physical resists

have at least two layers of defense (block, armor, evasion, etc), ideally more and lots of health

the faster your healing works, the better it is.

i used a necromancer witch last league, which is generally a highly favored build and ascendancy class, as it can easily max block thanks to its ascendancy power granting a +30% block/spell block to minions, also to itself. in the current version of the game, vaal pact has been severely nerfed--so necro witches' proximity to the alchemist nodes is extremely powerful since seething (-66% effect, effect is instant) healing flasks are now the only spike healing in the entire game. the alchemist nodes add +26% effect to flasks, effectively improving the seething flask to a mere -40% effect- a substantial improvement to their total healing. they're almost twice as good for necromancers, plus other defensive flasks are also great for them.

marauders are still great as they have access to the most life nodes, and life is still the most desirable thing on the tree.
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I'm only like 4 levels in at this point so I haven't really progressed down any particular path, but thanks. I was probably in danger of trying to make a glass cannon.
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edit: yeah, don't make a glass cannon. that's bad. the following is useful info much later on if you choose to be a melee type.

also: here are some good skill combinations you'll want to use once you get past act 4. i suggest using the trade tool to buy a terminus est, as it's very cheap and excellent for raising your levels. it can be made to have six links, so it can be with you the whole game, although starforge is unquestionably a superior weapon in the endgame.

gems in order of most-to-least useful, so if you're less than six links, drop the final ones.

note that you can, without opening the inventory, swap your weapon. I *highly* recommend making use of this. Your gearout for a boss is very different from what you'll use for reaching the boss.

mob-killing: flicker strike+melee physical damage+multistrike+melee splash+faster attacks+brutality
boss-killing: heavy strike+melee physical damage+brutality+ruthless+increased critical+faster attacks

starforge only does physical damage and shocks with physical damage, which synergizes nicely with brutality.
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in general, a good approach to take is to prioritize "increased damage with X" mods--from tree or elsewhere--only as much as you can get "more damage with X".

more damage is multiplicative with both increased mods and itself, so if you have "5% more damage under Y condition" and "6% more damage with X attack" and "7% increased damage with attacks" then you do 1.05*1.06*1.07 * (base) damage.

But if you have "5% increased damage under Y condition" and "6% increased damage with X attack" and "7% increased damage with attacks" then you do 1.18*base damage. This is significantly less, especially when the numbers get high.

Note that attack speed is fundamentally a 'more' modifier itself, and also has its own 'more' and 'increased' modifiers.
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I must have inadvertently triggered darkmannerdout.exe

So generally speaking, for the skill tree priotise defense boosts and generally leave strength mods to gems?

Darkman124 posted...

Note that attack speed is fundamentally a 'more' modifier itself, and also has its own 'more' and 'increased' modifiers.

Based on damage per second, basically?
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Darkman said everything I wanted to and a lot more. Actually, I think I figured how I can improve my character. Thanks. :3
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I might be repeating some of what @Darkman124 has said, apologies. Focus on defense. Max resists. Have a boss killing skill and a mob skill. Life total is very important in PoE. Try to get a nice 5-link or 6-link asap. Don't try glass-cannon, doesn't really work in PoE. Gearing up is relatively easy until you get to endgame and are trying to min-max. Add me on Steam if you ever want to start a new character, always down to play with someone new. Steam ID is Able, binding of isaac picture as my profile. Glhf!
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use https://poeplanner.com and map out what major keystones and notables your build will be relying on at much higher level, and figure out the best route to them (which may involve going one way, when leveling, and then crossing another path that uses fewer nodes, replacing your leveling nodes).

prioritize paths that get you to what you critically need ASAP first, defense second, and everything else third.

as an example, my necromancer would cast a low-damage spell at all enemies that was of a different element from her minions; she used the keystone skill 'elemental equilibrium' to grant her minions a large damage bonus. because this skill was fundamental to the build working even at low levels, i went straight for it as fast as I could.

similarly, her main damage minions are spectres, so she went for the notable that granted +1 spectre as soon as it was viable.

almost everything else was about picking up life nodes and minion damage nodes.

pinky0926 posted...

Based on damage per second, basically?

yes!
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pinky0926 posted...

that build options are nigh unlimited

Nope. There's about 8-10 builds that are end game viable. But you should be able to beat the storyline with just logically pickings skills even if it's not end game viable
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I Like Toast posted...

Nope. There's about 8-10 builds that are end game viable. But you should be able to beat the storyline with just logically pickings skills even if it's not end game viable

heh, if you're calling shaper endgame, it's even less about build and more muscle memory. low DPS builds can take him if the player is good at hard-dodging his attacks, but aside from the golemancer, whose combat strategy is "die, get dinner, reload when boss is dead" a fair number of builds are workable so long as you're willing to learn how to evade boss attack patterns.

the 8-10 builds you mention have some workarounds like perfect block/dodge + high evasion, etc. but other builds CAN do the content, it's just way harder.
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Is there a decent respec ability? Would hate to put hundreds of hours into a build and have it be unfixable.
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also- remember you can always party with people.

pinky0926 posted...

Is there a decent respec ability? Would hate to put hundreds of hours into a build and have it be unfixable.

you get respec points as you go through the story and also an item allows it; you can buy more of the item at certain vendors and player/player trade places it as being worth about 1 chaos orb, which is the game's version of a $1 bill. so you will be hurting if you need to swap dozens of points, but a few, nbd.

my character has used about 30 respec points in her lifetime. this is her tree. i switched around a bunch of things as I reached higher level, and also some things that I experimented with. there was a cost but not that crippling:

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/JasonLeg/characters

none of my gear is ultra-pricy, except the chest piece.
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I Like Toast posted...

pinky0926 posted...

that build options are nigh unlimited

Nope. There's about 8-10 builds that are end game viable. But you should be able to beat the storyline with just logically pickings skills even if it's not end game viable

I disagree with this to an extent. Yes there are that many builds that are very good but there are a lot more that are viable once you get better at dodging and mechanics overall.
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pinky0926 posted...

Is there a decent respec ability? Would hate to put hundreds of hours into a build and have it be unfixable.

Once you learn the game a bit, it is very easy to powerlevel a new character and get to endgame stuff.
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Cilym posted...

Once you learn the game a bit, it is very easy to powerlevel a new character and get to endgame stuff.

ish. powerleveling a new character requires basically running through the story, skipping quests that only give respec points and blasting bosses a couple levels above you.

faster attacks/leap slam/fortify on a brightbeak helps with that!
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Darkman124 posted...

Cilym posted...

Once you learn the game a bit, it is very easy to powerlevel a new character and get to endgame stuff.

ish. powerleveling a new character requires basically running through the story, skipping quests that only give respec points and blasting bosses a couple levels above you.

faster attacks/leap slam/fortify on a brightbeak helps with that!

Yeah I didn't mean to imply it's D3 levels of easy, but it isn't tooooooo bad.
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it's not too bad. i def got annoyed and quit trying to level my aurabot though.
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Woah this game has a steep learning curve. Just realised how deep the gem system goes.

Regarding linking (I just figured out the significance of this), do links accumulate or are they only linked immediately to the one they're touching?

E.g. if an item has 3 sockets linkedtogether like this:

A-B-C

Would socket A be linked to socket C, meaning that a support gem in A would affect a skill in C?
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Yes they work with all the linked sockets
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Does the order matter? Like do things stack.

Say you had something like this (I'm kind of guessing how this might work here so correct me if I'm way off base)

A - single target melee attack skill gem
B - support gem that adds 2 other targets to all melee attacks
C - support gem that adds 25% fire damage to skill gem

In that case, would it add 25% to all 3 targets, or just the base target?
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pinky0926 posted...

Does the order matter? Like do things stack.

Say you had something like this (I'm kind of guessing how this might work here so correct me if I'm way off base)

A - single target melee attack skill gem
B - support gem that adds 2 other targets to all melee attacks
C - support gem that adds 25% fire damage to skill gem

In that case, would it add 25% to all 3 targets, or just the base target?

They work simultaniously, if that makes sense.
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A5modeu5 posted...

They work simultaniously, if that makes sense.

Does that mean like
B affects A
C affects A
C affects B

? So it stacks?
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pinky0926 posted...

A - single target melee attack skill gem
B - support gem that adds 2 other targets to all melee attacks
C - support gem that adds 25% fire damage to skill gem

In that case, would it add 25% to all 3 targets, or just the base target?

adds to all targets, since you get 25% on the skill and the skill has additional targets

iirc order only matters for gems that trigger things automatically when certain conditions are met, since it determines the order they trigger in. Which is a pretty niche case you will likely not ever care about.

pinky0926 posted...

C affects B

? So it stacks?

support gems don't support each other, they just all support whatever non-support gems are in their group. If you mouse over a gem in an item, the other gems in the item that interact with it will highlight
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pinky0926 posted...

if an item has 3 sockets linkedtogether like this:

A-B-C

Would socket A be linked to socket C, meaning that a support gem in A would affect a skill in C?

Correct.

fyi:
1H weapons and shields cap out at 3 sockets
Helm/gauntlet/boots cap out at 4 sockets
Chests and 2H weapons eventually reach 6 sockets

4 sockets are a thing starting in about chapter 4 (level 35-40ish). 6 sockets are not to be planned around since getting not only 6 sockets but also 6 links involves about a thousand orbs of fusion which'll occur after a lot of grinding in endgame maps.

Which is partially why the general suggestion is to aim for defensives on the skill tree on endgame builds because getting a 6th gem slot will skyrocket your dps by >20% which is the rough equivalent of like 10+ skill points at that point.

And, yeah, there are indeed a LOT of build options. Be mindful of checking out the forums for build options, as many builds are reliant on having a 6-Linked chest and at least one piece of unique equipment that is the basis for the build in the first place.

But in general you'll want to go hardcore into one or maybe two abilities as the game progresses; something with decent AoE for clearing out mooks and then maybe something with a strong single damage component for boss types. Or, your AoE skill will also be sufficient single target damage. Almost any ability is viable through 98% of the game, but it needs to be well built in terms of skilltree and stuff.

Then it'll be a bunch of support skills -- a totem and/or curse, a golem, a movement skill, and then 1-3 auras and each of those getting various support gems.

Like, my Ancestral Warchief totem also has a maim support gem. In addition to buffing me and acting as an immobile turret, anything it attacks also gets a debuff that lets me hit it more. Or my movement ability also has Fortify support, so while I'm zipping around I also get a bonus to my defenses for a short while.

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Other misc tips

- Pick up all the scrolls of wisdom and portal scrolls. Selling an ID'd rare is worth much more than an un-ID'd one. Portal scrolls can be sold for wisdoms. I tend to vendor almost all gold-quality drops.

- When using scrolls of wisdom (or other items like armorer scraps), if you hold down shift you can repeatedly use the item instead of continually going back to the stack for a single use.

- Pick up any skill gem that has the word "superior" attached to it, even if you never plan to use it. They can be sold as a cluster to any vendor for a gemcutter prism which can either increase the quality of a gem you do use directly, or can be used to grant them +20% quality if the skillgem is at max level.

- There are 3 different kinds of Two Stone rings. Ones with fire-lit resist, lit-ice, and fire-ice. If you sell one of each of these to the vendor, you get a resist-all ring in exchange.

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Edit - Supports can also double-dip. Like if I have a 4-Linked chest with the following:

A - Bow skill that fires projectiles
B - Projectile support - damage down but more projectiles
C - Support gem - Increased critical strike chance and crit damage
D - Spell that fires projectiles

Both A and D are supported by B and C. This is usually suboptimal but there are plenty of scenarios where it's worthwhile as well.
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Thanks for the tips, those are handy. About this:

1H weapons and shields cap out at 3 sockets
Helm/gauntlet/boots cap out at 4 sockets
Chests and 2H weapons eventually reach 6 sockets

4 sockets are a thing starting in about chapter 4 (level 35-40ish). 6 sockets are not to be planned around since getting not only 6 sockets but also 6 links involves about a thousand orbs of fusion which'll occur after a lot of grinding in endgame maps.

I can't figure out from a stat point of view which weapon/shield arrangement works better -
- 2x1h handed
- 1x 2 handed
- 1x1h+ shield

Going by what you said it sounds like eventually 2handed weapons come out on top (because I assume gems are more important than base damage), but I guess it comes down to play style, what perks you have and what equipment you find? I haven't got far enough down the tree yet but I'm assuming there will be specific "+15% to one handed weapons" type perks.
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pinky0926 posted...

I can't figure out from a stat point of view which weapon/shield arrangement works better -
- 2x1h handed
- 1x 2 handed
- 1x1h+ shield

If you go all in on one ability for most of your fighting needs, the chest does the heavy lifting so gem-wise it rarely matters if you have 6 gems in one hand or 6 gems in 2 hands.

It mostly boils down to which abilities you're planning to use, lol. Like the movement skill "shield charge" obviously needs a shield equipped in the first place, while some others call for daggers or maces or swords to be specially equipped in your main hand. And then there's "double strike" which is only usable while DWing and I'm pretty sure there's a 2H-only ability (Sunder and/or Earthquake?)

Some skills are something like "attack with your main hand" which is where the major tradeoffs are:
- dual wield has your offhand weapon being a glorified stat stick offering things like damage up or crit chance up or something
- shield in the offhand boosts your defense in both raw armor/evasion/energy but also defensive passives like resistances up or increased life or something
- 2H weapon precludes the passive boosts for more raw damage and often slower attack speed

Some skills are to just merely "attack", where you attack with both weapons simultaneously in intervals relative to their individual attack speed which can go either way between DW or 2H.

And, yeah, there are indeed passives for both general perks "increased damage and armor while equipped with a shield" and weapon-specific like "increased damage from maces"
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it depends mostly on what you're doing with them

my necromantic aegis, spectre-summoning witch uses 1h+shield because there's a unique 1h weapon that gives a huge bonus to block, and necromantic aegis gives my shield's block bonus to my minions (also, there's a unique shield that generates a ton of power and frenzy charges when you pass it to your minions, and I use it, too). also she only uses an attack skill to move around the map, never to actually deal damage, so the damage power of her weapon is meaningless. but a shield is required to use that skill.

I have a 6L chestpiece, and lesser 3L connections on my weapon+shield.

a common choice for melee types is to wear a chestpiece with zero sockets/links that gives a huge life bonus, and use a 6L two-handed weapon. you'd then swap between a 'map clearing' weapon with a fast-attacking, lower damage type skill such as flicker strike with gems designed to hit lots of enemies, and a single-target skill such as heavy strike.

just be aware of the need for defenses. there are lots of ways to come up with defense, but you have to get it because you won't be able to dodge everything manually.
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