Current Events > Is it possible to have compassion for animals and still eat meat?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Your statement doesn't make sense. When I consume meat, I don't consciously think about the process that went into getting this meat on my plate.

You: "You don't understand. Torture and murder isn't cruel if I don't THINK about it. As long as I pay someone else to do the dirty work and don't think about it, it's okay."

You: "If you go out and buy some meat at a market, you're consciously supporting the torture and killing of animals because you're a sadistic piece of garbage. You guys have no heart cause it's because of YOU that innocent animals are dying for your pleasure!!!"

I like how you attempted to argue against me, but ended up owning yourself.

I just followed the same template you used to prove how asinine it sounded.

It's funny how you think it's asinine to take personal responsibility for supporting animal cruelty and death with your money.
---

Don't feel bad about eating an animal. If you weren't going to eat it someone or something else would have eaten it eventually.
---

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Your statement doesn't make sense. When I consume meat, I don't consciously think about the process that went into getting this meat on my plate.

You: "You don't understand. Torture and murder isn't cruel if I don't THINK about it. As long as I pay someone else to do the dirty work and don't think about it, it's okay."

You: "If you go out and buy some meat at a market, you're consciously supporting the torture and killing of animals because you're a sadistic piece of garbage. You guys have no heart cause it's because of YOU that innocent animals are dying for your pleasure!!!"

I like how you attempted to argue against me, but ended up owning yourself.

I just followed the same template you used to prove how asinine it sounded.

It's funny how you think it's asinine to take personal responsibility for supporting animal cruelty and death with your money.

Well, how else am I suppose to get meat on my plate if it won't involve killing another living organism?

I mean, are you forgetting who's on top of the food chain? That's right. Humans are.
---

Hairy-man posted...

I care about most beings on this earth excluding yellow jackets and mosquitos. They can burn in hell

But everything else I dunno. I eat it, because I dont see meat as a dead animal. Its not shaped like an animal. So its out of sight and mind.

But thinking about it sometimes gets to me

I just got the biggest deja vu feeling reading this. I know what you're saying, man. I used to hear, "How can you eat meat when you have pets?" I get where they're coming from, but I'm not eating cats. I could see if I had a pet chicken, or pig, or cow. Then there would be a weirdness to eating their meat, for me, but Idk. If people think it's hypocritical, that's fine. I live my life, they don't.
---

Pepys Monster posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

I like critters as much as the next guy, but a man's gotta eat.

You don't have to eat animals. You deliberately choose to be cruel instead of compassionate.

Calm down Wheatball. We aren't killing any animals. Besides, just 2 weeks ago you made a topic whining about how your work's Christmas dinner was going to be at a vegan restaurant. So now you're a hypocrite too.
---

CensorErik posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

I like critters as much as the next guy, but a man's gotta eat.

You don't have to eat animals. You deliberately choose to be cruel instead of compassionate.

Calm down Wheatball. We aren't killing any animals. Besides, just 2 weeks ago you made a topic whining about how your work's Christmas dinner was going to be at a vegan restaurant. So now you're a hypocrite too.

You're supporting the murder of animals with your money. Have you ever heard of the concept of supply and demand? And I'm not sure how you confused a vegan who would love to eat at a vegan restaurant with the TC who thought he was too good to enjoy a single vegan meal at a nice restaurant.
---

Of course it is. You can kill animals humanely. The only people who are to blame are those who don't vote against those who condone animal torture and the companies who are doing the actual torturing themselves. The demand for meat was there long before factory farming and is completely independent of it, so that argument is already dead.

Plus plants are alive too. But for some reason vegans think that because they're a different kind of life form (or at least, more different from us than animals are) that that doesn't count.
---

nicklebro posted...

You can kill animals humanely.

If a murderer killed your family, but insisted that he did it humanely, how would you feel about that? "Humanely killed" is an oxymoron.
---

Pepys Monster posted...

nicklebro posted...

You can kill animals humanely.

If a murderer killed your family, but insisted that he did it humanely, how would you feel about that? "Humanely killed" is an oxymoron.

You're now comparing killing animals to killing humans? And you're also not acknowledging the difference between torturing something to death and killing it painlessly?

Lol but of course the division between animals and plants is still absolute right? What a fucking joke, your argument is dead in the water. Flail around all you want, you can't get out of the hole you've dug yourself into.
---

nicklebro posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

nicklebro posted...

You can kill animals humanely.

If a murderer killed your family, but insisted that he did it humanely, how would you feel about that? "Humanely killed" is an oxymoron.

You're now comparing killing animals to killing humans? And you're also not acknowledging the difference between torturing something to death and killing it painlessly?

Lol but of course the division between animals and plants is still absolute right? What a fucking joke, your argument is dead in the water. Flail around all you want, you can't get out of the hole you've dug yourself into.

Humans are animals. And I bet you're one of those guys who thinks you only eat "humane meat," and then you go to McDonald's and other fast food places to order factory farmed, tortured to death animals every day.

BTW, plants are in their own separate biological kingdom. Imagine trying to argue that killing a fellow mammal is equal to eating a plant.
---

you know who came up with those biological kingdoms? humans

what makes plants less deserving of life than other mammals? we need plants more than all the other mammals combined
---

Pepys Monster posted...

Humans are animals. And I bet you're one of those guys who thinks you only eat "humane meat," and then you go to McDonald's and other fast food places to order factory farmed, tortured to death animals every day.

BTW, plants are in their own separate biological kingdom. Imagine trying to argue that killing a fellow mammal is equal to eating a plant.

So you're literally going to stick with the argument that there's no difference between humans and other animals, but somehow plants are not even in the same ballpark. Lol every single post of yours is so easy to pick apart. But you'll just keep up this circular logic and I'm not the kinda guy who repeats himself for shitposters. So have fun being wrong, don't let it bother you too much that you were intellectually bested that easily. It was probably because you're malnourished.
---

beechesfreeman posted...

you know who came up with those biological kingdoms? humans

what makes plants less deserving of life than other mammals? we need plants more than all the other mammals combined

Jumping from plants to mammals is a huge leap lol. Maybe start with invertebrates then go to reptiles first. What are you saying anyway, that animals shouldnt eat plants?

To the OP, yes, though vegetarianism is widely practiced in India for a reason (its spiritual). I guess the issue living in an industrialized place is that by eating meat youre contributing to a system which mass slaughters animals. There are ways around it but they cost a lot.
---

nicklebro posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Humans are animals. And I bet you're one of those guys who thinks you only eat "humane meat," and then you go to McDonald's and other fast food places to order factory farmed, tortured to death animals every day.

BTW, plants are in their own separate biological kingdom. Imagine trying to argue that killing a fellow mammal is equal to eating a plant.

So you're literally going to stick with the argument that there's no difference between humans and other animals, but somehow plants are not even in the same ballpark. Lol every single post of yours is so easy to pick apart. But you'll just keep up this circular logic and I'm not the kinda guy who repeats himself for shitposters. So have fun being wrong, don't let it bother you too much that you were intellectually bested that easily. It was probably because you're malnourished.

It's a shame that you've decided to continue not thinking about how the meat you eat got onto your plate, and the suffering and death that you're paying for. Maybe someday, you'll open your eyes to reality and go vegan. If you have a heart, that is.
---

StridentArremer posted...

It can be difficult to transition into a completely different dietary lifestyle. So I could see how the empathy might be there, but not necessarily the willpower.

Regardless, any effort that a person makes toward consuming less meat or animal byproducts should count for something. Some degree of difference is being made as a result of those actions, and that can't be discounted just because it's not a perfect solution.

This implies that using other animals for our needs is a problem that needs solving
---

ForestLogic posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Hexenherz posted...

What pisses me off are the people who are "compassionate for animals" and then put their friggin' cats on a vegan diet with overpriced pumpkin cat cookies because "we shouldn't be killing animals for meat".

Nobody does this. Like i've never heard of a single real, non-strawman vegan doing this, because it's cruelty

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/us/california-today-should-shelter-dogs-be-vegan.html

gg Redgelord.

Are dogs cats now or are you just illiterate?
---

I do believe one day I will go vegetarian. Maybe not vegan, but vegetarian.

Every time I eat meat and think about it, I get a little bit closer. Im not saying Im not a hypocrite, I just wish that they wouldnt be so judgemental about it because Im clearly thinking about it and giving it some more thought
---

RebelElite791 posted...

ForestLogic posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Hexenherz posted...

What pisses me off are the people who are "compassionate for animals" and then put their friggin' cats on a vegan diet with overpriced pumpkin cat cookies because "we shouldn't be killing animals for meat".

Nobody does this. Like i've never heard of a single real, non-strawman vegan doing this, because it's cruelty

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/us/california-today-should-shelter-dogs-be-vegan.html

gg Redgelord.

Are dogs cats now or are you just illiterate?

i think he is
and
cats are carnivores

dogs are omnivores
big difference
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Your statement doesn't make sense. When I consume meat, I don't consciously think about the process that went into getting this meat on my plate.

You: "You don't understand. Torture and murder isn't cruel if I don't THINK about it. As long as I pay someone else to do the dirty work and don't think about it, it's okay."

He says from a machine made with rare earth metals mined from exploited Africans and assembled by Chinese people paid $15 per day.

I doubt that he cares about exploited Africans, or underpaid Chinese people.
---

I like dogs. But I don't care about what happens to the animals that become my meat
---

@Pepys Monster posted...

"Humanely killed" is an oxymoron.

I agree with this 100%, but your high horse approach has me focused more on the animal you're abusing from that saddle. Smh. Lol. Seriously though, Idc if you think I'm a hypocrite. Your opinions are yours to deal with. I was a vegetarian for nearly two years while I trained to be a meat cutter at a butcher shop. That was only because I was grossed out by being around all that meat all day. The smell clings to your clothes, skin, and hair. I bet if I worked at a slaughterhouse I'd still be a vegetarian. I'm aware of the compartmentalizing I'm doing, but Idc. Live your life as a Wheatball and I'll live as I choose. Have a superior day.
---

This can't be a real question can it?

I love a big steak or a nice burger, some of my favorite foods. I also love animals in general (though some I really don't care about) and have a larger emotional reaction looking at pictures of puppies than I do of babies.

I have more compassion for animals than I do for humans overall. However, there's this thing, called the food chain... It's existed for longer than humans have, and nature tends to revolve around it. It triggers evolutionary advances in creatures, both in predators to hunt better, and prey to avoid being hunted.

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution. I am a full believer in raising cattle/sheep/whatever for food, or hunting for food. What I am NOT a believer in is hunting just for sport.

To clarify that, if you bag a really nice deer and want to mount the head as a trophy, fine go ahead and do that, but take the rest of it and use it for food too.
---

Yes.
---

@Hairy-man posted...

I do believe one day I will go vegetarian. Maybe not vegan, but vegetarian.

Every time I eat meat and think about it, I get a little bit closer. Im not saying Im not a hypocrite, I just wish that they wouldnt be so judgemental about it because Im clearly thinking about it and giving it some more thought

Remind them that they had to CHOOSE to be vegans and they dealt with struggles at some point. If they continue to be judgmental of you, perhaps they aren't your friends at all. Lastly, it's YOUR life bro. Live it to your liking. At the end of the day your opinion of yourself, your happiness, and your choices are all yours to deal with.
---

Sabram posted...

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution.

I don't really get this argument. There are many things we do that is"against nature."

I don't really have an issue with people eating meat, but using this "it's natural " reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.
---

emblem boy posted...

Sabram posted...

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution.

I don't really get this argument. There are many things we do that is"against nature."

I don't really have an issue with people eating meat, but using this "it's natural " reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

How about the fact that the human body has developed and evolved to the point of requiring a reasonable protein intake to make the most of it, and most natural proteins are found in meat? Sure you can get proteins from some nuts and whatnot, but to match the amount you'd get from meats you'd have to eat a LOT of them.
---

Sabram posted...

emblem boy posted...

Sabram posted...

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution.

I don't really get this argument. There are many things we do that is"against nature."

I don't really have an issue with people eating meat, but using this "it's natural " reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

How about the fact that the human body has developed and evolved to the point of requiring a reasonable protein intake to make the most of it, and most natural proteins are found in meat? Sure you can get proteins from some nuts and whatnot, but to match the amount you'd get from meats you'd have to eat a LOT of them.

This just isn't true. Several plants, particularly beans, have all the protein you will need. The leafy green stuff typically doesn't have all the essential aminos, but lots of other flora-type food does.

There is nothing wrong with eating meat, but justifying it by saying that not eating meat is "going against nature" is a fucking absurd argument.
---

Sabram posted...

emblem boy posted...

Sabram posted...

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution.

I don't really get this argument. There are many things we do that is"against nature."

I don't really have an issue with people eating meat, but using this "it's natural " reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

How about the fact that the human body has developed and evolved to the point of requiring a reasonable protein intake to make the most of it, and most natural proteins are found in meat? Sure you can get proteins from some nuts and whatnot, but to match the amount you'd get from meats you'd have to eat a LOT of them.

There are lots of non meat protein sources that are easy to get for the average person in the US.

Dairy like yogurt, legumes like lentils and beans, soybean and tofu, etc. You can get more than enough protein without eating meat

Does it require someone to be mkre watchful of their diet? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No.
---

SageHarpuia posted...

God gave man dominion over the animals. Get over it.

This just gave me the idea for a gimmick. I'd try it, but my friends would shun me.
---

Hairy-man posted...

I do believe one day I will go vegetarian. Maybe not vegan, but vegetarian.

Every time I eat meat and think about it, I get a little bit closer. Im not saying Im not a hypocrite, I just wish that they wouldnt be so judgemental about it because Im clearly thinking about it and giving it some more thought

Youre obviously not thinking about it enough. Imagine a murderer saying I feel kind of bad for my victims. Maybe one day Ill stop. But I wish people would just lay off me instead of telling me to stop. I mean Im clearly thinking about stopping. So until I decide to, just let me murder in peace.
---

Pepys Monster posted...

Hairy-man posted...

I do believe one day I will go vegetarian. Maybe not vegan, but vegetarian.

Every time I eat meat and think about it, I get a little bit closer. Im not saying Im not a hypocrite, I just wish that they wouldnt be so judgemental about it because Im clearly thinking about it and giving it some more thought

Youre obviously not thinking about it enough. Imagine a murderer saying I feel kind of bad for my victims. Maybe one day Ill stop. But I wish people would just lay off me instead of telling me to stop. I mean Im clearly thinking about stopping. So until I decide to, just let me murder in peace.

Eating meat isn't comparable to being a serial killer
---

I mean, I have compassion for humans and still eat human meat so yeah
---

If you have compassion for animals, you just eat farm or supermarket meat instead of animal meat. It's not that difficult

I care about animals and LOVE eating meat.
---

Cheater87 posted...

I care about animals and LOVE eating meat.

Then you dont care about animals.
---

Many people care about animals...They just care about them to a certain extent I guess. Up to them to decide whether they draw that line, but more should probably be honest to themselves about it
---

emblem boy posted...

Sabram posted...

emblem boy posted...

Sabram posted...

Honestly vegetarians and vegans are going against nature, by going against the food chain and evolution.

I don't really get this argument. There are many things we do that is"against nature."

I don't really have an issue with people eating meat, but using this "it's natural " reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

How about the fact that the human body has developed and evolved to the point of requiring a reasonable protein intake to make the most of it, and most natural proteins are found in meat? Sure you can get proteins from some nuts and whatnot, but to match the amount you'd get from meats you'd have to eat a LOT of them.

There are lots of non meat protein sources that are easy to get for the average person in the US.

Eggs, dairy like yogurt, legumes like lentils and beans, soybean and tofu, etc. You can get more than enough protein without eating meat

Does it require someone to be mkre watchful of their diet? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No.

Keep in mind vegans also refuse to eat eggs or any kind of milk products.

As for getting enough protein from eating legumes, beans etc. Sure why not? If that's how a person wants to do it, then they can do it.

I would like to touch briefly on the history of being vegetarian though. It was fairly common, but not a majority of people, in ancient India and Greece, mostly it was a show of practice of nonviolence towards animals, and particularly in India it was for religious purposes. Vegetarianism largely vanished from Europe after the Roman Empire adopted Christianity. It also never got a firm foothold in the US until about 1971, and even so the number of people who were vegetarian overall was still a strikingly small percentage, peaking around 4-6% of the population.

However, to use that data as an argument for pre-vegetarian/vegan diets, you'd have to be saying that for pretty much all of human history, the overwhelming majority of people were doing it wrong. If that's the mindset you want to take with it, then fine, there will be no convincing you otherwise.

Then consider how humans were in times before recorded history, and you can be fairly certain that the number of people who followed vegetarian lifestyles was an even smaller percentage, if they existed at all. With nomadic tribes of hunter/gatherers as the main style of humanity then, they largely moved with herds of animals. Why would that be? to hunt them, in order to feed and clothe themselves from them.

You have to consider also that those primitive peoples, while they hunted and ate meat, also had representations of animals for a lot of their godly figures. So to put that to the initial question of the topic of if you can have compassion for animals and still eat meat, is incredible asinine and narrow-minded.

To assume you CANNOT have compassion towards them while being a consumer of meat would imply that say, native americans had no compassion for the buffalo they hunted. It's an incredibly stupid statement that holds no merit at all, and is the product of a very limited worldview.
---

Calm down Wheatball. We aren't killing any animals.

Not true. I raise chickens, rabbits, and cows for the express purpose of eating them.

Kasperia posted...

weapon_d00d816 posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Possible? Sure.
But hypocritical.

You must think there are a LOT of hypocrites considering how many non-vegans are involved with conservation efforts, animal shelters, etc.

Most humans are hypocrites.

I agree.
---

FairyLeviathan posted...

Calm down Wheatball. We aren't killing any animals.

Not true. I raise chickens, rabbits, and cows for the express purpose of eating them.

How could you do such a horrible thing? Why not just get store or farm grown meat?

...It is farm grown meat.

It's possible, yes, but it ironically requires one to recognize that they're a beast themselves.

Animals eat other animals, and shockingly, a lot of animals also *respect* other animals. To that end, the only reason "compassionate about but also eats animals" seems hypocritical is because one is actively attempting to put themselves *above* animals with self-made standards, rather than acknowledging them as fellow life, that predates us by millions of years no less. (It's also why I like using "up on their high horse" on vegans, because it's wholly accurate to their attitude towards everyone and everything around them.)

Personally I care more about being "true" than "right" and being an omnivore means I have no qualms in partaking with the eating of meat and plants alike, and whereby there is no "correct" way because whether you do one or both, you'e not "pretending" about anything.

There's also the slight issue that plants are also "alive" in the most basic sense, but good luck convincing any vegan that they're hypocrites by their own rulebook, and they would sooner double-down then fathom the idea that they'e not so different from you in the grand scheme of things. (Gosh, so much for that unbridled sense of empathy, eh?)
---

Sabram posted...

Keep in mind vegans also refuse to eat eggs or any kind of milk products.

As for getting enough protein from eating legumes, beans etc. Sure why not? If that's how a person wants to do it, then they can do it.

Veganism requires more thought for sure. I don't disagree. If you feel that vegetarianism/veganism is for you then you have to do the research needed, but it's very possible assuming you have the resources.

Sabram posted...

I would like to touch briefly on the history of being vegetarian though. It was fairly common, but not a majority of people, in ancient India and Greece, mostly it was a show of practice of nonviolence towards animals, and particularly in India it was for religious purposes. Vegetarianism largely vanished from Europe after the Roman Empire adopted Christianity. It also never got a firm foothold in the US until about 1971, and even so the number of people who were vegetarian overall was still a strikingly small percentage, peaking around 4-6% of the population.

However, to use that data as an argument for pre-vegetarian/vegan diets, you'd have to be saying that for pretty much all of human history, the overwhelming majority of people were doing it wrong. If that's the mindset you want to take with it, then fine, there will be no convincing you otherwise.

Then consider how humans were in times before recorded history, and you can be fairly certain that the number of people who followed vegetarian lifestyles was an even smaller percentage, if they existed at all. With nomadic tribes of hunter/gatherers as the main style of humanity then, they largely moved with herds of animals. Why would that be? to hunt them, in order to feed and clothe themselves from them.

You have to consider also that those primitive peoples, while they hunted and ate meat, also had representations of animals for a lot of their godly figures. So to put that to the initial question of the topic of if you can have compassion for animals and still eat meat, is incredible asinine and narrow-minded.

To assume you CANNOT have compassion towards them while being a consumer of meat would imply that say, native americans had no compassion for the buffalo they hunted. It's an incredibly stupid statement that holds no merit at all, and is the product of a very limited worldview.
---

Is the bulk of what you're saying, that throughout humanity we've been meat eaters the majority of the time? If so, so what? No one is saying otherwise. Again, using the rationale that "it's what we've been doing, so therefore it's the correct way to do it" doesn't really fly with me. If that's not what you're saying, correct me. Like I have no issue with people eating meat, I just don't agree with that reasoning.

I think whether or not you view yourself as having compassion for animals while being a meat eater is largely going to be a personal thing for everyone. Maybe someone doesn't find eating animals wrong, but they view animal factory as wrong so they avoid that type of meat. Maybe they view eating animals wrong, period. Well then they have to live their life adhering to that view.
Maybe someone just doesn't care as long as they don't interact with the animals they eat. So be it.
I agree with you that it's not a simple yes/no answer for everyone
---

FairyLeviathan posted...

...It is farm grown meat.

No, yours is animal meat

Darklit_Minuet posted...

FairyLeviathan posted...

...It is farm grown meat.

No, yours is animal meat

uh...

FairyLeviathan posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

FairyLeviathan posted...

...It is farm grown meat.

No, yours is animal meat

uh...

Talking farm meat

https://lpix.org/1078722/meat%20farm.png

Yeah I love animals. I eat animals. It doesn't have to be cruel. It can be humane.
---

StridentArremer posted...

Regardless, any effort that a person makes toward consuming less meat or animal byproducts should count for something. Some degree of difference is being made as a result of those actions, and that can't be discounted just because it's not a perfect solution.

Agreed. When it comes to things like this the ethics of it all can get very personal, and I don't think progress can be viewed as some dichotomy with an arbitrary cutoff.

So to answer you TC I think it's very possible. I struggled with the same feelings a couple of years before I went vegetarian then vegan. I started by making the switch to eating meat from animals raised in a more humane environment, then went semi-vegetarian and began reducing my meat consumption and so forth. But even in the beginning when I still ate meat I don't think there's any doubt that there was compassion there, just looking at what it led to. So I think your friends have the wrong idea.
---

RebelElite791 posted...

Hexenherz posted...

What pisses me off are the people who are "compassionate for animals" and then put their friggin' cats on a vegan diet with overpriced pumpkin cat cookies because "we shouldn't be killing animals for meat".

Nobody does this. Like i've never heard of a single real, non-strawman vegan doing this, because it's cruelty

I have met at least one person who does. I wish I were making it up.
---

Pepsy Monster thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him/her is a hypocrite and the same as a serial killer. He/she must feel superior to 99% of people they meet irl.

They forget that they once ate meat and dairy at some point too.
---