Current Events > Last nights voting results would have produced a 6-1 GOP win in the House

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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 11:27:24 AM #51:	Darkman124 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Darkman124 posted... AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." It's simpler than that: Busybodies in the 60s: "You need to stuff a bunch of minorities into their own districts, so the black voters can win sometimes" Good ol' boys, ever since: "Wait, really? You're saying that we should segregate? Hot diggity damn, son!" you're smarter than this That's exactly what's happening. http://www.newsweek.com/how-gerrymandering-black-districts-backfired-south-498036 <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892139774] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> It's simpler than that: Busybodies in the 60s: "You need to stuff a bunch of minorities into their own districts, so the black voters can win sometimes" Good ol' boys, ever since: "Wait, really? You're saying that we should segregate? Hot diggity damn, son!"</quote> you're smarter than this</quote> That's exactly what's happening. http://www.newsweek.com/how-gerrymandering-black-districts-backfired-south-498036</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/13/17 11:30:38 AM #52:	again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:892139956] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 11:33:27 AM #54:	Darkman124 posted... AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." Yes. It's just simple malicious compliance. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892140096] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> Yes. It's just simple malicious compliance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KazumaKiryu 12/13/17 11:34:59 AM #55:	District 7 should be ashamed of themselves. --- Just your bad luck... to run into me. <cite>KazumaKiryu posted [p:892140178] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>District 7 should be ashamed of themselves.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 12/13/17 11:42:11 AM #56:	Questionmarktarius posted... uwnim posted... Nah, dividing into equal area zones results in massive differences in vote power among citizens of a state. Averaging out the population is more sensible. We have reasonably sophisticated computers now. There's no reason districts can't look like simple polyhedrals, give or take the occasional river. I'm totally for having computers make the districts. Tropicalwood thinks it would be unfair for there to be districts of different sizes though. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:892140524] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote> Nah, dividing into equal area zones results in massive differences in vote power among citizens of a state. Averaging out the population is more sensible.</quote> We have reasonably sophisticated computers now. There's no reason districts can't look like simple polyhedrals, give or take the occasional river.</quote> I'm totally for having computers make the districts. Tropicalwood thinks it would be unfair for there to be districts of different sizes though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 11:43:35 AM #57:	uwnim posted... Questionmarktarius posted... uwnim posted... Nah, dividing into equal area zones results in massive differences in vote power among citizens of a state. Averaging out the population is more sensible. We have reasonably sophisticated computers now. There's no reason districts can't look like simple polyhedrals, give or take the occasional river. I'm totally for having computers make the districts. Tropicalwood thinks it would be unfair for there to be districts of different sizes though. They're based on population, thus they have to be different sizes. I also have no doubt that computers are already being used to create districts that get as thin as a two-lane road in places, just to connect "demographic" areas. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892140592] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote> Nah, dividing into equal area zones results in massive differences in vote power among citizens of a state. Averaging out the population is more sensible.</quote> We have reasonably sophisticated computers now. There's no reason districts can't look like simple polyhedrals, give or take the occasional river.</quote> I'm totally for having computers make the districts. Tropicalwood thinks it would be unfair for there to be districts of different sizes though.</quote> They're based on population, thus they have to be different sizes. I also have no doubt that computers are already being used to create districts that get as thin as a two-lane road in places, just to connect "demographic" areas.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 12/13/17 11:44:31 AM #58:	Darkman124 posted... again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:892140636] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 12:50:32 PM #59:	uwnim posted... Darkman124 posted... again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way. that is what he's saying --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892144300] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way.</quote> that is what he's saying</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 12/13/17 12:57:06 PM #60:	Balrog0 posted... uwnim posted... Darkman124 posted... again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied." Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way. that is what he's saying It is also what Questionmarktarius is saying. Well, he's saying that plus needing to create majority-minority districts gives them an excuse to hide behind and prevents us from making districts sensibly. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:892144677] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>again AL is 30% black; with 7 districts a representative set would include 2 majority-minority districts not 1 supermajority-minority. their gerrymandering is done for political advantage, not because "their hands are tied."</quote> Political districts are drawn by people who have an interest in making things a certain way.</quote> that is what he's saying</quote> It is also what Questionmarktarius is saying. Well, he's saying that plus needing to create majority-minority districts gives them an excuse to hide behind and prevents us from making districts sensibly.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/13/17 12:57:59 PM #61:	uwnim posted... gives them an excuse to hide behind and prevents us from making districts sensibly. this does not follow, since it's not illegal to do this, the 'excuse' is not required --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:892144721] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote>gives them an excuse to hide behind and prevents us from making districts sensibly.</quote> this does not follow, since it's not illegal to do this, the 'excuse' is not required</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:04:56 PM #62:	Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens? <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892145120] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:06:01 PM #63:	Questionmarktarius posted... Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens? they become like senate elections, unless you have something else in mind for 'at-large' --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892145181] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens?</quote> they become like senate elections, unless you have something else in mind for 'at-large'</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darkman124 12/13/17 1:08:03 PM #65:	shockthemonkey posted... Demographics go unrepresented and people are disenfranchised people are already disenfranchised en masse qmark's idea is totally viable if you allow ranked voting would make it fucking hard for big states to handle 50+ votes for their 50 'at large' seats though, probably would mean voters would be even less informed about specifics. and idk how you'd even do primaries. but it would fuck koch industries and other forces that rule house elections by funding the primaries right in the asshole so it'd be an improvement --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:892145296] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> Demographics go unrepresented and people are disenfranchised</quote> people are already disenfranchised en masse qmark's idea is totally viable if you allow ranked voting would make it fucking hard for big states to handle 50+ votes for their 50 'at large' seats though, probably would mean voters would be even less informed about specifics. and idk how you'd even do primaries. but it would fuck koch industries and other forces that rule house elections by funding the primaries right in the asshole so it'd be an improvement</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:13:59 PM #67:	shockthemonkey posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens? Demographics go unrepresented and people are disenfranchised Meanwhile, in Illinois: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional_district Even there, where a district is essentially 'gifted' to hispanic voters, in a liberal state, the demographic is still essentially shoved off in a corner. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892145639] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Here's a thought exercise: Ditch districts entirely, and just have at-large seats. What happens?</quote> Demographics go unrepresented and people are disenfranchised</quote> Meanwhile, in Illinois: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois%27s_4th_congressional_district Even there, where a district is essentially 'gifted' to hispanic voters, in a liberal state, the demographic is still essentially shoved off in a corner.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:14:17 PM #68:	I think it would be awful to move to statewide seats personally I think QM has a point with the VRA, but also, it's not like there wasn't gerrymandering prior to the VRA, and it's also not like the level of packing we currently see started with the VRA in the 60s -- the real jump in majority-minority seats comes in the 90s prior to the GOP wave under Gingrich/Clinton. also another thing is that democrats do this to themselves by choosing to live in population centers --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892145654] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>I think it would be awful to move to statewide seats personally I think QM has a point with the VRA, but also, it's not like there wasn't gerrymandering prior to the VRA, and it's also not like the level of packing we currently see started with the VRA in the 60s -- the real jump in majority-minority seats comes in the 90s prior to the GOP wave under Gingrich/Clinton. also another thing is that democrats do this to themselves by choosing to live in population centers</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darkman124 12/13/17 1:18:33 PM #70:	Balrog0 posted... I think it would be awful to move to statewide seats personally aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:892145914] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>I think it would be awful to move to statewide seats personally </quote> aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:19:50 PM #71:	Darkman124 posted... aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892145979] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why</quote> why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/13/17 1:20:33 PM #72:	i'm suggesting it as a package deal nationwide fuck the whole district system it's not like your house rep does shit for the local neighborhood anymore --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:892146024] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>i'm suggesting it as a package deal nationwide fuck the whole district system it's not like your house rep does shit for the local neighborhood anymore</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:22:09 PM #73:	my objection there is that it makes less sense than just moving to some kind of proportional system in that case imo because of the complexities you've described --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892146118] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote>my objection there is that it makes less sense than just moving to some kind of proportional system in that case imo because of the complexities you've described</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:22:50 PM #74:	Balrog0 posted... Darkman124 posted... aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years. But, doing so would bypass the primary process and party kingmaking, which is why it won't happen. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892146155] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why</quote> why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in</quote> It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years. But, doing so would bypass the primary process and party kingmaking, which is why it won't happen.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
uwnim 12/13/17 1:24:27 PM #75:	Questionmarktarius posted... Balrog0 posted... Darkman124 posted... aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years. But, doing so would bypass the primary process and party kingmaking, which is why it won't happen. It would make things more difficult for the voters. Seeing that many names would be a bit intimidating to the typical person. --- I want a pet Lavos Spawn. [Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica] <cite>uwnim posted [p:892146253] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>aside from the difficulties associated with ranking ~50 house reps in CA...why</quote> why would I assume that it would come with rank choice voting, though? at-large representatives can still be numbered and choose different at-large districts to run in</quote> It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years. But, doing so would bypass the primary process and party kingmaking, which is why it won't happen.</quote> It would make things more difficult for the voters. Seeing that many names would be a bit intimidating to the typical person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:25:00 PM #76:	Questionmarktarius posted... It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years. I mean is that really a way to elect a slate of representatives? You would necessarily end up with people who got elected with like 2% of the vote or less statewide due to the number of candidates idk --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892146295] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>It's really not that difficult to place 200 names on the ballot, and the top 53 get to be representatives for two years.</quote> I mean is that really a way to elect a slate of representatives? You would necessarily end up with people who got elected with like 2% of the vote or less statewide due to the number of candidates idk</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:25:24 PM #77:	uwnim posted... It would make things more difficult for the voters. Seeing that many names would be a bit intimidating to the typical person. it is intimidating to me, and I live for this stuff --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892146319] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>uwnim posted...</cite> <quote>It would make things more difficult for the voters. Seeing that many names would be a bit intimidating to the typical person.</quote> it is intimidating to me, and I live for this stuff</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JE19426 12/13/17 1:27:05 PM #79:	shockthemonkey posted... Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people. They wouldn't. They'd look at what party the candidate was in, and vote for the candidates in the party they support. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:892146415] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people. </quote> They wouldn't. They'd look at what party the candidate was in, and vote for the candidates in the party they support.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:28:34 PM #80:	shockthemonkey posted... Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people. Who does now? It's "my guy" in the primary, then whoever has the correct letter during the general. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892146512] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people.</quote> Who does now? It's "my guy" in the primary, then whoever has the correct letter during the general.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:35:03 PM #82:	shockthemonkey posted... Questionmarktarius posted... shockthemonkey posted... Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people. Who does now? It's "my guy" in the primary, then whoever has the correct letter during the general. How do you think they determined who their guy is? The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892146880] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah I have a hard time believing most voters would actually research that many people.</quote> Who does now? It's "my guy" in the primary, then whoever has the correct letter during the general.</quote> How do you think they determined who their guy is?</quote> The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/13/17 1:36:07 PM #83:	Questionmarktarius posted... The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot. which is what, exactly? Look at states with jungle primaries like California and Louisiana. People can't just vote their party. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892146951] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot.</quote> which is what, exactly? Look at states with jungle primaries like California and Louisiana. People can't just vote their party.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 12/13/17 1:37:01 PM #84:	Darkman124 posted... fuck the whole district system it's not like your house rep does shit for the local neighborhood anymore I don't agree with this at all, as someone who's corresponded with his representative before. It's impossible to represent the entirety of a large state with any competence if there are no districts. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:892147000] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>fuck the whole district system it's not like your house rep does shit for the local neighborhood anymore</quote> I don't agree with this at all, as someone who's corresponded with his representative before. It's impossible to represent the entirety of a large state with any competence if there are no districts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:40:44 PM #86:	Balrog0 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot. which is what, exactly? Look at states with jungle primaries like California and Louisiana. People can't just vote their party. It stops at the "this is my guy" step. You vote for John Smith, then go home. As is, you vote for John Smith in the primary, then several months later you're hating yourself for voting for Guy Someguy - but at least he isn't Bob Boberson from that whacko party! We've set up a system that's almost entirely hate-voting. You're not voting for someone, you're voting against someone else. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892147217] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>The same way they would when there's 200 names on the ballot.</quote> which is what, exactly? Look at states with jungle primaries like California and Louisiana. People can't just vote their party.</quote> It stops at the "this is my guy" step. You vote for John Smith, then go home. As is, you vote for John Smith in the primary, then several months later you're hating yourself for voting for Guy Someguy - but at least he isn't Bob Boberson from that whacko party! We've set up a system that's almost entirely hate-voting. You're not voting for someone, you're voting against someone else.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 12/13/17 1:44:09 PM #88:	shockthemonkey posted... You didnt really answer his question Then the question was misunderstood. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:892147416] in Last night... [t:76094386]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>You didnt really answer his question</quote> Then the question was misunderstood.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Last nights voting results would have produced a 6-1 GOP win in the House (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Last nights voting results would have produced a 6-1 GOP win in the House