Current Events > "Augmented human labor is an inclusive opportunity, not a threat."

(+) Yeah! (+)

Taken in Brussels airport.

Saw this on r/Cyberpunk.

Anyway, I'm not sure I share the same positivity. Automation has the potential to work that way, but we're not great as a species at planning ahead for massive changes like this. If we do get to a situation like that, I think it'll take many years of great upheaval before it happens. I certainly don't expect there to be anything in place before automation takes over to a significant degree. Profits in the here and now aren't going to be sacrificed. I hope I'm proven wrong.

If we are to advance as a species, this is definitely the way to go though.

This will probably interest @FLUFFYGERM.

"leaving more time for what really matters"

Starvation? Imprisonment for turning to crime to get by? Needlessly engaging in wars to decrease the surplus population through combat?

There's a reason people work. It's primarily about survival. You replace 40% of the workforce with automation and making the grade will no longer be about the highest paycheck, it'll be about avoiding life in a cell or under a bridge.

luigi13579 posted...

Profits in the here and now aren't going to be sacrificed. I hope I'm proven wrong

You are wrong. And you will be proven wrong sooner rather than later. Here's an example from General Motors.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2017/11/30/gm-driverless-cars-can-affordable-and-profitable/910608001/

The tl;dr is that the only reason autonomous ride sharing will be profitable at all is because of the cost reductions of autonomous driving after the masses embrace it. So even though the companies will profit more...the consumers will pay less. You can have more profit for the owner and less cost for the consumer at the same time.

The same will be true of every other industry, rather than just transportation. Surgery, medicine production, energy storage, energy production, construction, etc. The costs for all of these will plummet as we introduce more automation. And as we see in transportation, those lower costs will allow for both more profit and less cost for the end user.

It's a virtuous cycle of growth and prosperity, because that increase in profit will motivate even more automation. And the reduction in costs will mean that we have amazing services and products at a smaller cost than the deprecated versions had.

And all of this means that eventually, we will work 20 hours a week yet have the same standard of living we do now. And eventually universal basic income will be possible.

It's fucking fantastic and anyone who thinks automation is bad is ignorant tbqh.
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Skye Reynolds posted...

"leaving more time for what really matters"

Starvation? Imprisonment for turning to crime to get by? Needlessly engaging in wars to decrease the surplus population through combat?

There's a reason people work. It's primarily about survival. You replace 40% of the workforce with automation and making the grade will no longer be about the highest paycheck, it'll be about avoiding life in a cell or under a bridge.

People are happier when they can maintain their standard of living with less hours worked. People are also more enabled to be creative and entrepreneurs when they don't need to work backbreaking hours in order to survive.

The Industrial Revolution saw plenty of automation. What used to be manual labor in the fields is now trivial work for a machine, and we're better off as a species because of it.

The idea that people "need" to work is silly. People will be just fine to work 20 hours a week for the same standard of living. Or to work 5 hours a week for the same standard of living. We have films, books, videogames, travel, and soon space exploration and virtual reality. There are many things we can do to keep ourselves occupied.
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None of your idyllic predictions are going to happen quickly enough to help the people automation pushes out tho. I think you are conveniently forgetting that
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Just like rational people were not concerned with vegetable pickers being displaced by machines, we should not be concerned with truckers being displaced by artificial intelligence.

What's more important? That the cost of vegetables plummet due to automation, or that the costs remain high for everyone so that the vegetable pickers have a job?

We need to be pragmatic and think about the long-term of the species. Displaced truckers will need to learn new skills in order to find other work. Stunting the progress of the species because of "muh jobs" is the single most dangerous thing we could do to our country, because whether we like it or not automation is going to happen somewhere else. We need to be the leader, not the naive ideologue.

We have never lived in a better time for learning new and relevant skills quickly and cheaply. You can learn so much useful shit on the internet and in libraries and in free workshops. We've never been more connected. Truckers will be okay.
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Who said anything about truckers?
Then, "Muh jobs"? Really?
Just stop, tell me where a 60 year old goes after their job is automated. They're 5 years from retiring, do you just subsidize all of them because by the time you retrain them they're retiring anyway?
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The truckers were just an example. The point was that when human labor becomes deprecated, we need to deprecate it. Not cling to an inefficient model.

And your example of the 60 year was dishonestly concocted to attempt to prove your point. Let's not devolve the conversation by relying on made up scenarios and emotions like that. If they're 5 years from retiring, they should be fine because it'll probably be right around 5 more years before truckers are obsolete. And if we're going to talk about people who have more time until retirement, they should be capable of learning new skills. If you're not always learning, you're making yourself irrelevant in this global economy. That's just how it is.

You do realize we have unemployment benefits and the like? Maybe the government can do a better job of investing and managing the social security money that gets taken from each pay check. Surely some of that can be dispersed better during unemployment and the like.

If you're a 60 year old trucker, you've been making decent money your whole career and should have a nice retirement nest egg ready to go all the same. My grandfather was a trucker until he died in an accident in his 60s and he made a shit ton of money during his career.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

You do realize we have unemployment benefits and the like? Maybe the government can do a better job of investing and managing the social security money that gets taken from each pay check. Surely some of that can be dispersed better during unemployment and the like.

Not when Trump and his cronies get a hold of them we won't.
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Duncanwii posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

You do realize we have unemployment benefits and the like? Maybe the government can do a better job of investing and managing the social security money that gets taken from each pay check. Surely some of that can be dispersed better during unemployment and the like.

Not when Trump and his cronies get a hold of them we won't.

Please lay down the Wiimote and pick up a goddamn book.
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Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.
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DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

I didn't say same pay. I said the same standard of living. An example was already given. Say you live in a big city like Chicago or Los Angeles and you rely on ride sharing in order to get around. Autonomous ride sharing fleets will be at least 1/3rd the cost of the current ride sharing services out there. Because of automation, your transportation costs are now going to be a third of what they were!

Meaning that you need to spend only a third of the time to earn the funds you need to ride share for the entire year. If you were previously spending a week to earn the money needed to fund your ride sharing for the year, now it might take just a day and a half. Get it?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Get it?

No, actually, because I don't know what you originally said. I was replying to the image that TC posted, not anyone in this topic particularly.
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Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?
---

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.
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powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

I lost my job to automation.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

Automation does increase productivity but eventually it will replace most human labor really soon. At least things like transportation and some knowledge work.
---

DK9292 posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

I lost my job to automation.

What job was it?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

DK9292 posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

I lost my job to automation.

What job was it?

Data entry and reports.

Well, it was one of a lot of jobs I did. I was officially a web developer but a lot of my time was spent dealing with data. I was happy when my boss helped me automate it because I thought I would be able to devote more time to the web development, but a couple of weeks later I was made redundant.
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DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

DK9292 posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

I lost my job to automation.

What job was it?

Data entry and reports.

Well, it was one of a lot of jobs I did. I was officially a web developer but a lot of my time was spent dealing with data. I was happy when my boss helped me automate it because I thought I would be able to devote more time to the web development, but a couple of weeks later I was made redundant.

As a web developer you have skills that are in high demand. You should be able to find a job without any real issues. You could also take the skills you had with automating the data entry and reporting and offer them to other companies looking to do the same thing.

Paying someone to manually fill in data and generate reports, rather than having a machine do it in no time at all, would be extremely stupid of our species.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?

So, you don't understand retirement, unemployment, social security, or the real way things work?
They should just retire early, eat the penalties for doing so, and dig into their nest egg?
You are not worth discussing this with because you have no concept of your own side of this debate
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

As a web developer you have skills that are in high demand. You should be able to find a job without any real issues.

Not if you don't have the experience.
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Imagine believing that prices will go down because costs do! LOL!! The only reason prices will go down is because consumers wont have as much money to spendjust enough to keep consumers buying. The cost of living will never go down far enough in relation to purchasing power to create surplus for consumers.

Also the grandfather who died in an accident when he was 60 and had a nice nest egg was also getting more than .03% interest whereas today the only way to make money on savings is through speculation
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Automating shitty jobs and opening up entirely new markets is pretty normal, it's happened multiple times throughout history.
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powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?

So, you don't understand retirement, unemployment, social security, or the real way things work?
They should just retire early, eat the penalties for doing so, and dig into their nest egg?
You are not worth discussing this with because you have no concept of your own side of this debate

If they were about to retire, then they could work in some other field for a couple of years if they really want to work more. Unemployment benefits are a possibility in the interim. You're making this a bigger issue than it is.

The majority of people will not be this affected by automation. It's not a reason to not automate. Someone who gets laid off at 55 still has plenty of time and brainpower left to learn new skills. Welcome to the modern age. If you're not learning new things constantly, you're going to deprecate yourself.

Make use of the internet, libraries, workshops, etc. Save and invest. Live below your means. If people practice these simple things throughout their lifetime, employment will be much easier while it's still needed.
---

DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

As a web developer you have skills that are in high demand. You should be able to find a job without any real issues.

Not if you don't have the experience.

But you just said you were already a web developer. How is that not experience? Are you able to relocate to a bigger city like Chicago or San Francisco in order to get some experience? Are you learning the latest technologies so that you're up to date?

josifrees posted...

Imagine believing that prices will go down because costs do! LOL!! The only reason prices will go down is because consumers wont have as much money to spendjust enough to keep consumers buying. The cost of living will never go down far enough in relation to purchasing power to create surplus for consumers.

Also the grandfather who died in an accident when he was 60 and had a nice nest egg was also getting more than .03% interest whereas today the only way to make money on savings iAjd s through speculation

Uh the nest egg wasn't just sitting in a bank account LMFAO. There are retirement accounts and investment accounts that earn a lot more than .03% interest. You can invest money and get 10% yearly returns.

Prices don't always go down just because costs do, but it does happen. In fact, companies will sell a comparable product/service at a lower cost in order to take customers away from competition. Go and read the article I linked on General Motors and their autonomous fleet.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

Automation does increase productivity but eventually it will replace most human labor really soon. At least things like transportation and some knowledge work.

You'll never be able to totally replace humans because you'll always need humans to at least make sure the automations haven't broken, or in the case of publicly accessible things like self-driving trucks you'll need to make sure people aren't stealing / vandalizing that shit.

you can eliminate truck drivers by putting cameras around and just having people watch the shit over monitors but there will always be people at some step in the equation making things work.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?

So, you don't understand retirement, unemployment, social security, or the real way things work?
They should just retire early, eat the penalties for doing so, and dig into their nest egg?
You are not worth discussing this with because you have no concept of your own side of this debate

If they were about to retire, then they could work in some other field for a couple of years if they really want to work more. Unemployment benefits are a possibility in the interim. You're making this a bigger issue than it is.

The majority of people will not be this affected by automation. It's not a reason to not automate. Someone who gets laid off at 55 still has plenty of time and brainpower left to learn new skills. Welcome to the modern age. If you're not learning new things constantly, you're going to deprecate yourself.

Make use of the internet, libraries, workshops, etc. Save and invest. Live below your means. If people practice these simple things throughout their lifetime, employment will be much easier while it's still needed.

I'm guessing you haven't been an adult for very long. Nothing against you, we were all young and idealist once. Your view and reality don't line up unfortunately
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Duncanwii posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

You do realize we have unemployment benefits and the like? Maybe the government can do a better job of investing and managing the social security money that gets taken from each pay check. Surely some of that can be dispersed better during unemployment and the like.

Not when Trump and his cronies get a hold of them we won't.

Please lay down the Wiimote and pick up a goddamn book.

So you deny that social programs like unemployment are constantly in peril while republicans are in charge?
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ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

Automation does increase productivity but eventually it will replace most human labor really soon. At least things like transportation and some knowledge work.

You'll never be able to totally replace humans because you'll always need humans to at least make sure the automations haven't broken, or in the case of publicly accessible things like self-driving trucks you'll need to make sure people aren't stealing / vandalizing that shit.

you can eliminate truck drivers by putting cameras around and just having people watch the shit over monitors but there will always be people at some step in the equation making things work.

Companies working in autonomous driving have already done tests showing that humans aren't needed. Maybe at the beginning we'll still have humans available to monitor things while the fleet does some learning in the real world and grows. But eventually there won't really be a need for humans in transportation.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

As a web developer you have skills that are in high demand. You should be able to find a job without any real issues.

Not if you don't have the experience.

But you just said you were already a web developer. How is that not experience?

I don't fucking know, why not ask all my potential employers who always go with "someone more experienced"?

And for the second question, no, I'm not relocating halfway around the world to fucking America.
---

powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?

So, you don't understand retirement, unemployment, social security, or the real way things work?
They should just retire early, eat the penalties for doing so, and dig into their nest egg?
You are not worth discussing this with because you have no concept of your own side of this debate

If they were about to retire, then they could work in some other field for a couple of years if they really want to work more. Unemployment benefits are a possibility in the interim. You're making this a bigger issue than it is.

The majority of people will not be this affected by automation. It's not a reason to not automate. Someone who gets laid off at 55 still has plenty of time and brainpower left to learn new skills. Welcome to the modern age. If you're not learning new things constantly, you're going to deprecate yourself.

Make use of the internet, libraries, workshops, etc. Save and invest. Live below your means. If people practice these simple things throughout their lifetime, employment will be much easier while it's still needed.

I'm guessing you haven't been an adult for very long. Nothing against you, we were all young and idealist once. Your view and reality don't line up unfortunately

It's one thing to say this and another thing to prove it. Your only argument was "what about the 60 year old who is close to retirement? What are they gonna do?!?!?"

Poor argument for the reasons already mentioned. Whatever bruh.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

Automation does increase productivity but eventually it will replace most human labor really soon. At least things like transportation and some knowledge work.

You'll never be able to totally replace humans because you'll always need humans to at least make sure the automations haven't broken, or in the case of publicly accessible things like self-driving trucks you'll need to make sure people aren't stealing / vandalizing that shit.

you can eliminate truck drivers by putting cameras around and just having people watch the shit over monitors but there will always be people at some step in the equation making things work.

Companies working in autonomous driving have already done tests showing that humans aren't needed. Maybe at the beginning we'll still have humans available to monitor things while the fleet does some learning in the real world and grows. But eventually there won't really be a need for humans in transportation.

I don't think you read my post very well.

What happens to a self driving car when a group of vandals spraypaints n-word on it?
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ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

DK9292 posted...

Automation won't result in people getting the same pay for 45% less work.

It will result in 45% of people losing jobs because robots don't need a paycheck.

No.

I actually work automating various tasks at my job that were manual at one point. ZERO people have been fired because of less work needing to be done. They take the time freed up and assign them with new tasks so that the company can be more productive.

Automation does increase productivity but eventually it will replace most human labor really soon. At least things like transportation and some knowledge work.

You'll never be able to totally replace humans because you'll always need humans to at least make sure the automations haven't broken, or in the case of publicly accessible things like self-driving trucks you'll need to make sure people aren't stealing / vandalizing that shit.

you can eliminate truck drivers by putting cameras around and just having people watch the shit over monitors but there will always be people at some step in the equation making things work.

Companies working in autonomous driving have already done tests showing that humans aren't needed. Maybe at the beginning we'll still have humans available to monitor things while the fleet does some learning in the real world and grows. But eventually there won't really be a need for humans in transportation.

I don't think you read my post very well.

What happens to a self driving car when a group of vandals spraypaints n-word on it?

I really don't think that will be a situation that is any more likely than a group of vandals spraypainting someone's car while they're sleeping at night. Does it happen? Yes. Is it common enough or meaningful enough to actually sway the conversation in any real way? No.

The car would just be cleaned up. Big deal.
---

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

powerman1426 posted...

Stop with the trucker analogy.
What happens to the aging out people who only have a few years left in the workforce who lose their job? Fuck 'em? You do realize how retirement and social security work, yes?
Maybe you don't, you seem to not understand how the actual world functions and how many people would be affected.
So, obviously, automation doesn't happen right away. Maybe that 60 year old retires first. You do realize that because of how time annoyingly moves forward, there will be more 60 year old people, right? All of whom lose that job?

Those people who only have a few years left in the work force are still eligible for unemployment benefits, right? And if they're that close to retirement they would've been eyeballing their retirement fund to begin with, right?

So, you don't understand retirement, unemployment, social security, or the real way things work?
They should just retire early, eat the penalties for doing so, and dig into their nest egg?
You are not worth discussing this with because you have no concept of your own side of this debate

If they were about to retire, then they could work in some other field for a couple of years if they really want to work more. Unemployment benefits are a possibility in the interim. You're making this a bigger issue than it is.

The majority of people will not be this affected by automation. It's not a reason to not automate. Someone who gets laid off at 55 still has plenty of time and brainpower left to learn new skills. Welcome to the modern age. If you're not learning new things constantly, you're going to deprecate yourself.

Make use of the internet, libraries, workshops, etc. Save and invest. Live below your means. If people practice these simple things throughout their lifetime, employment will be much easier while it's still needed.

I'm guessing you haven't been an adult for very long. Nothing against you, we were all young and idealist once. Your view and reality don't line up unfortunately

It's one thing to say this and another thing to prove it. Your only argument was "what about the 60 year old who is close to retirement? What are they gonna do?!?!?"

Poor argument for the reasons already mentioned. Whatever bruh.

You haven't answered any of the questions tho.
What about early retirement penalties, what about decreased social security benefits, what about having to dig into their nest egg?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

I really don't think that will be a situation that is any more likely than a group of vandals spraypainting someone's car while they're sleeping at night. Does it happen? Yes. Is it common enough or meaningful enough to actually sway the conversation in any real way? No.

The car would just be cleaned up. Big deal.

The difference is if you spraypaint my car while I'm sleeping, I'll wake up and notice it right away in the morning. If you spraypaint a self-driving car it goes around the country for miles.

The reason it doesn't happen is because people are watching and will cause issues / notify police if you try.

The self driving cars have already been sabotaged by taking advantage of their AI patterns, although mostly for harmless fun things. See this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rphOfG52obM
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powerman1426 posted...

You haven't answered any of the questions tho.
What about early retirement penalties, what about decreased social security benefits, what about having to dig into their nest egg?

If you're that close to retirement, coast on another job until you retire. It's no different than getting laid off or going through a recession right when you're about to retire. You should be prepared for these possibilities. Learn new things and save money.

Maybe the government should take less money out of people's pay checks so that individuals can invest that money themselves? That way we won't be slaves to the government's definition of retirement, and we won't need to work until we're really old in order to see the full weight of our earnings?

Nothing you're saying is good enough to justify stunting automation by the way. Are you in favor of not automating just so we can have "muh jobs"? If you're not in favor of that, what is the point of even posting?
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And now I'm being ignored.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

I really don't think that will be a situation that is any more likely than a group of vandals spraypainting someone's car while they're sleeping at night. Does it happen? Yes. Is it common enough or meaningful enough to actually sway the conversation in any real way? No.

The car would just be cleaned up. Big deal.

The difference is if you spraypaint my car while I'm sleeping, I'll wake up and notice it right away in the morning. If you spraypaint a self-driving car it goes around the country for miles.

The reason it doesn't happen is because people are watching and will cause issues / notify police if you try.

The self driving cars have already been sabotaged by taking advantage of their AI patterns, although mostly for harmless fun things. See this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rphOfG52obM

I'm pretty sure people will notice if self driving cars are being defaced. It's not like it'd be able to drive very far before someone calls the police or the car's owner. What a non-issue.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

I really don't think that will be a situation that is any more likely than a group of vandals spraypainting someone's car while they're sleeping at night. Does it happen? Yes. Is it common enough or meaningful enough to actually sway the conversation in any real way? No.

The car would just be cleaned up. Big deal.

How about the one that was utterly confused by a taco truck stopped in front of it recently? Doesn't sound too efficient to get a few thousand people backed up because of lunch lol
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DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

As a web developer you have skills that are in high demand. You should be able to find a job without any real issues.

Not if you don't have the experience.

But you just said you were already a web developer. How is that not experience?

I don't fucking know, why not ask all my potential employers who always go with "someone more experienced"?

And for the second question, no, I'm not relocating halfway around the world to fucking America.

If you're not in America, I can't help you. Being a developer in other countries tends to suck because there are less opportunities. You're on your own. LOL at how you're badmouthing America even though your country clearly has no opportunities or protections for you.

Are you learning new skills during your free time? Building software that you can show prospective employers?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Maybe the government should take less money out of people's pay checks so that individuals can invest that money themselves

Yeah, they paid into social security which penalizes you for retiring early. Get educated
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powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

I really don't think that will be a situation that is any more likely than a group of vandals spraypainting someone's car while they're sleeping at night. Does it happen? Yes. Is it common enough or meaningful enough to actually sway the conversation in any real way? No.

The car would just be cleaned up. Big deal.

How about the one that was utterly confused by a taco truck stopped in front of it recently? Doesn't sound too efficient to get a few thousand people backed up because of lunch lol

You're aware that this technology is new and hasn't had a lot of time on real roads, right? It's not perfect and it has kinks that need to be ironed out by real-world driving.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

If you're not in America, I can't help you.

Good. At least you ADMIT what an ethnocentric dick you're being.

Fucking asshole.
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DK9292 posted...

And now I'm being ignored.

You won man
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powerman1426 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Maybe the government should take less money out of people's pay checks so that individuals can invest that money themselves

Yeah, they paid into social security which penalizes you for retiring early. Get educated

Maybe the government shouldn't be responsible for defining retirement for individuals? If you're a few years away from retirement and a single lay-off ruins that for you...I feel bad for you but that's kind of your problem, isn't it? And again, you concocted the entire hypothetical in a way that tries to prove your argument for you. How many people are actually going to be affected in that way?

Let's see some evidence and real data rather than just your make pretend.
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DK9292 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

If you're not in America, I can't help you.

Good. At least you ADMIT what an ethnocentric dick you're being.

Fucking asshole.

Way to disregard most of my post, you troll.
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