Current Events > Ant-Man and Spider-Man Homecoming's main villain have murdered and... (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

gotten away with it.

There's a weirdly glossed over plot point where Ant-Man's villain murders a high up government guy and then there is literally no inquiry by anyone over it. I know there's no physical body but that is so glossed over it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo with seemingly no evidence tying him to the crime.







And it's the same thing with Spiderman homecoming. The Vulture murders one of his crew members by choosing the wrong gun to shoot him with, and nothing, no inquiry. True, the guy he kills isn't a high up government official and just a blue collar worker supposedly (who steals and sells weapons in neighborhoods) but still weird. He has a weapon that can vaporize someone and turn them to dust and... yeah. Nothing becomes of it.







I just think it seems altogether odd.
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saspa posted...

I just think it seems altogether odd.

Why? I believe most of the antagonists in these movies have killed people, in some cases a lot of people. And they killed them intentionally, like Darren cross, instead of accidentally like Adrian Tombs.
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Most of these villains have murdered. Just because they're street level doesn't mean much. Vulture was running a gang, gangs tend to murder people. And then he gives the dude who witnesses him a promotion on the spot in a multimillion dollar gang. Of course there's no push back from him, especially after he just saw him kill a dude.

I don't remember Antman as much tbh. But the villain didn't really surround himself with upstanding dudes.

If you're talking about why there's no criminal investigation of these dead people, then yeah the Antman one probably has a glaring plothole. But gang members die every day with no criminal investigation so the Homecoming one kinda makes sense.
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I think you're supposed to just assume that these things happen off screen. It's about the equivalent of superheroes eating dinner or using the bathroom. They don't show it in the movies, but you just assume it happens off screen because it serves no narrative purpose to devote screentime to it.

Case in point: Although we never witness the death, it isn't until the lady confronts Tony Stark in Civil War that we find out about the death of her son and the grieving that took place because of it.

That death (and the following grief) showed a narrative purpose so we saw it. Those other deaths, well, we assume that the appropriate people grieved and the proper investigative procedures happened. We just didn't need to see them.
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Is this the first time you've seen a movie?
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Why does it matter if they end up dead by the end of the movie anyway?
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saspa posted...

it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo

Because the shrink formula would get him a LOT more money than just another weapon that kills. Remember, he was planning on selling the Yellow Jacket suit to a lot of people. He needed the formula to make it work right.

My other point is that the villain has this powerful weapon but seems more concerned with shrinkage? And as to the other villain, he has these powerful weapons but has been under the radar for what, 7 years?
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Mikablu posted...

saspa posted...

it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo

Because the shrink formula would get him a LOT more money than just another weapon that kills. Remember, he was planning on selling the Yellow Jacket suit to a lot of people. He needed the formula to make it work right.

He's selling the suit as a weapon for the battlefield (presumably) as well, so... yeah. Same exact purpose.

Only this is a weapon that doesn't just kill. It annihilates. It's not just a bullet spewing gun. It is a completely broken powerful weapon.
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saspa posted...

My other point is that the villain has this powerful weapon but seems more concerned with shrinkage? And as to the other villain, he has these powerful weapons but has been under the radar for what, 7 years?

Like I said, Cross wanted the formula he could sell the YJ suits. Tint super-powered assassins are worth a lot more than just another killing weapon.

As for Toomes, he was VERY careful to stay under the radar. He makes a huge point about it to the guy who brought them to Spider-Mans attention because the guy was careless about it.

saspa posted...

Mikablu posted...

saspa posted...

it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo

Because the shrink formula would get him a LOT more money than just another weapon that kills. Remember, he was planning on selling the Yellow Jacket suit to a lot of people. He needed the formula to make it work right.

He's selling the suit as a weapon for the battlefield (presumably) as well, so... yeah. Same exact purpose.

Only this is a weapon that doesn't just kill. It annihilates. It's not just a bullet spewing gun. It is a completely broken powerful weapon.

There's a huge difference between a gun that turns people into goo and a shrinking superpowered multi-purpose assassin suit.

I too was bothered by the fact that Cross had such a powerful gun at his disposal and was so fixated on the Ant-Man technology.
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Zanzenburger posted...

I think you're supposed to just assume that these things happen off screen. It's about the equivalent of superheroes eating dinner or using the bathroom. They don't show it in the movies, but you just assume it happens off screen because it serves no narrative purpose to devote screentime to it.

Case in point: Although we never witness the death, it isn't until the lady confronts Tony Stark in Civil War that we find out about the death of her son and the grieving that took place because of it.

That death (and the following grief) showed a narrative purpose so we saw it. Those other deaths, well, we assume that the appropriate people grieved and the proper investigative procedures happened. We just didn't need to see them.

I feel like with Ant-Man, an investigation into the sudden disappearance of this high end official would probably affect the villain's party plans and debut of his shrinking formula. He'd at the very least be a person of interest, and subject to police interactions that would affect the actual progress of the movie.
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EvalAngell posted...

I too was bothered by the fact that Cross had such a powerful gun at his disposal and was so fixated on the Ant-Man technology.

This
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Mikablu posted...

saspa posted...

Mikablu posted...

saspa posted...

it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo

Because the shrink formula would get him a LOT more money than just another weapon that kills. Remember, he was planning on selling the Yellow Jacket suit to a lot of people. He needed the formula to make it work right.

He's selling the suit as a weapon for the battlefield (presumably) as well, so... yeah. Same exact purpose.

Only this is a weapon that doesn't just kill. It annihilates. It's not just a bullet spewing gun. It is a completely broken powerful weapon.

There's a huge difference between a gun that turns people into goo and a shrinking superpowered multi-purpose assassin suit.

Which is that the turning people to goo, while icky, is a lot more straightforward than needing to sneak around an enemy or punch them while being really small?
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saspa posted...

gotten away with it.

There's a weirdly glossed over plot point where Ant-Man's villain murders a high up government guy and then there is literally no inquiry by anyone over it. I know there's no physical body but that is so glossed over it makes you wonder why he cares about perfecting the turning small formula when he has a weapon that instantly turns someone into a weird little pile of goo with seemingly no evidence tying him to the crime.







And it's the same thing with Spiderman homecoming. The Vulture murders one of his crew members by choosing the wrong gun to shoot him with, and nothing, no inquiry. True, the guy he kills isn't a high up government official and just a blue collar worker supposedly (who steals and sells weapons in neighborhoods) but still weird. He has a weapon that can vaporize someone and turn them to dust and... yeah. Nothing becomes of it.







I just think it seems altogether odd.

What would that goo taste like?
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Kaname_Madoka posted...

EvalAngell posted...

I too was bothered by the fact that Cross had such a powerful gun at his disposal and was so fixated on the Ant-Man technology.

This

The shrinking suit technology is insanely more useful and versatile. Street level dudes (Vulture and his group) were constructing more destructive weapons than that goo gun.
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Well Ant-Man takes place in a relatively small time frame in which Yellow Jacket dies.

Wouldnt be much point in an inquiry.
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MC_BatCommander posted...

The shrinking suit technology is insanely more useful and versatile

Uh...he can literally use whatever power/technology is in that gun and sell it to the government/army and bring other nations to their knees. That little ray gun is basically the hand of God. The suit is only useful for stealth and infiltration. But why would you need that if you can just bully people with the ray-gun?
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EvalAngell posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

The shrinking suit technology is insanely more useful and versatile

Uh...he can literally use whatever power/technology is in that gun and sell it to the government/army and bring other nations to their knees. That little ray gun is basically the hand of God. The suit is only useful for stealth and infiltration. But why would you need that if you can just bully people with the ray-gun?

The Goo gun was an unstable prototype.
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EvalAngell posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

The shrinking suit technology is insanely more useful and versatile

Uh...he can literally use whatever power/technology is in that gun and sell it to the government/army and bring other nations to their knees. That little ray gun is basically the hand of God. The suit is only useful for stealth and infiltration. But why would you need that if you can just bully people with the ray-gun?

Because there is tons of crazy tech in the Marvel world. A goo gun isn't gonna do much when people can take chunks of dead Chitauri or Ultron robots and turn them into destructive laser beams.

Not to mention the second you make an international stink you can have Thor or Iron Man dropping in and fucking your shit up.
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MC_BatCommander posted...

Not to mention the second you make an international stink you can have Thor or Iron Man dropping in and f***ing your s*** up.

but if Cross shoots either of them with the gun do they turn to goo?
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EvalAngell posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

Not to mention the second you make an international stink you can have Thor or Iron Man dropping in and f***ing your s*** up.

but if Cross shoots either of them with the gun do they turn to goo?

I doubt it. That would be too convenient.
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Deadpool_18 posted...

EvalAngell posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

Not to mention the second you make an international stink you can have Thor or Iron Man dropping in and f***ing your s*** up.

but if Cross shoots either of them with the gun do they turn to goo?

I doubt it. That would be too convenient.

main characters have plot armor so probably not, but either one could easily destroy any weapon from far outside its range regardless.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Most of these villains have murdered. Just because they're street level doesn't mean much. Vulture was running a gang, gangs tend to murder people. And then he gives the dude who witnesses him a promotion on the spot in a multimillion dollar gang. Of course there's no push back from him, especially after he just saw him kill a dude.

I don't remember Antman as much tbh. But the villain didn't really surround himself with upstanding dudes.

If you're talking about why there's no criminal investigation of these dead people, then yeah the Antman one probably has a glaring plothole. But gang members die every day with no criminal investigation so the Homecoming one kinda makes sense.

Especially as there is no body.

Long as no one in the room talked it could be a long time before any was like hey this guy is missing and gets worried enough to call the police.

Long enough for the plot to resolve.
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Deadpool_18 posted...

EvalAngell posted...

MC_BatCommander posted...

The shrinking suit technology is insanely more useful and versatile

Uh...he can literally use whatever power/technology is in that gun and sell it to the government/army and bring other nations to their knees. That little ray gun is basically the hand of God. The suit is only useful for stealth and infiltration. But why would you need that if you can just bully people with the ray-gun?

The Goo gun was an unstable prototype.

Yeah that's probably it, the instability could cause the gun to malfunction and backfire, maybe even explode in his face or something. But with movie science they could probably reverse engineer that very power or technology that makes them into goo instead of shrinking them.
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I like that while the Vulture wasn't broken up about killing that dude, he legit didn't mean to, or want to kill him.
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Likewise. Michael Keaton's nuanced portrayal of the vulture is one of my favorites. He's actually more terrifying out of the suit than in it. Not unlike his other famous flying animal character...
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saspa posted...

Likewise. Michael Keaton's nuanced portrayal of the vulture is one of my favorites. He's actually more terrifying out of the suit than in it. Not unlike his other famous flying animal character...

I never saw Birdman.
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saspa posted...

Likewise. Michael Keaton's nuanced portrayal of the vulture is one of my favorites. He's actually more terrifying out of the suit than in it. Not unlike his other famous flying animal character...

Michael Keaton should play every bird-motif'd character in Hollywood until he dies from eating rice and having his tum tum explode.
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Lol
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Lol what a weird phrase. Tum tum and rice?
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SlashmanSG posted...

saspa posted...

Likewise. Michael Keaton's nuanced portrayal of the vulture is one of my favorites. He's actually more terrifying out of the suit than in it. Not unlike his other famous flying animal character...

I never saw Birdman.

It's really good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1F82sxZ8c
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Oshawottownage posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Most of these villains have murdered. Just because they're street level doesn't mean much. Vulture was running a gang, gangs tend to murder people. And then he gives the dude who witnesses him a promotion on the spot in a multimillion dollar gang. Of course there's no push back from him, especially after he just saw him kill a dude.

I don't remember Antman as much tbh. But the villain didn't really surround himself with upstanding dudes.

If you're talking about why there's no criminal investigation of these dead people, then yeah the Antman one probably has a glaring plothole. But gang members die every day with no criminal investigation so the Homecoming one kinda makes sense.

Especially as there is no body.

Long as no one in the room talked it could be a long time before any was like hey this guy is missing and gets worried enough to call the police.

Long enough for the plot to resolve.

Yeah it's just that it seems he was one of the prospective buyers for the yellowjacket and would probably have had backers who are wondering where their representative is.
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