Current Events > Never played Oblivion, got the GOTY version on Xbone for cheap. What to expect?

(+) Yeah! (+)

IIRC custom spell intensity doesn't go higher than 100 points, so a drain health 100 points is as high as it goes.

However, one of the metas of spellmaking basically becomes weakness looping. Weakness to magic affects everything, including itself.

This is when I began making what I referred to as "pulse spells" which are touch spells (to save on cost) which are spells with some means to disable the enemy to allow repeated casting, weakness to magic, and the desired negative effect(s). In this case, drain health.

So maybe it'd be Calm, weakness to magic, drain health on touch. Each for a couple seconds. Cast it once, they are calmed, lose 100 max health, and have 100% weakness to magic. Cast it again, they are calm, lose 200 max health, and have 200% max health. Cast again, 300 and 300%, etc.

If you're magically strong enough you can put an AoE on it and just erase all life from a room while they stand there in a daze.

It's much harder to put something powerful like this on a weapon but is possible to various extents. Weakness to shock, magic, drain speed and fatigue and some minimal shock damage on a fast hitting weapon was one of the most powerful things to ever exist in the history of time. It will rapidly disable everyone to the point they no longer are aware of anything around them, humans collapse in fatigue-induced paralysis, and the damage escalates very rapidly to gamebreaking levels. It's possible to make a weapon like this with an AoE.

A fun thing is if you put positive effects in a weakness loop spell, those will be boosted by weakness to magic too, allowing you to buff a deer to be a creature with godlike health, teleportation speeds, massive health regen, instant kills everything it attacks. And I had weapons that could effortlessly kill it.
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Make a custom class character and make every skill you plan on not using a major skill

That way you don't have to worry about leveling up or managing your major skills so you don't level up too fast

Just don't add something like athletics to it.
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Also, if anything thinks how brokenly OP you could be is why they removed spellmaking, I would like to point out you can utterly break Skyrim, but with alchemy instead. It's incredibly absurd what you can do by stacking fortifications to make ridiculous potions. It's just not as varied, fun or interesting but you'll still break the game. Make a strong enough fortify destruction spell and use a cloak spell and discover the fortification effect boosts both damage AND AoE which is just...ridiculous. Plus restoration fortification applies to like, all positive effects, leading to things that are frankly even more broken than weakness looping in Oblivion.

Besides, Bethesda outright said the reason they didn't bring spellmaking back was because it was "too spreadsheety" and "took the magic out of magic"

Which is why in Skyrim, what you do is solve a dumb riddle to get the master destruction spell, that isn't even useful and you never use and then stick to using adept-level spells, dual cast to stunlock enemies until they slowly die from the weak damage because that's largely the most effective offensive use of maggggggggggggggggggg...ic.

Oh sorry I fell asleep on my keyboard for a bit there thinking about magic in Skyrim.
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Also I want to further point out, they said it was too spreadsheety, which is an interface "problem" not a mechanical one. But the enchanting in Skyrim uses the exact same interface, so... \(' - ')/
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Tmk posted...

Which is why in Skyrim, what you do is solve a dumb riddle to get the master destruction spell, that isn't even useful and you never use and then stick to using adept-level spells, dual cast to stunlock enemies until they slowly die from the weak damage because that's largely the most effective offensive use of maggggggggggggggggggg...ic.

I'm playing through skyrim for the first time right now and I'm honestly surprised that there is only one Flames spell and it's the novice spell. I don't like the firebolt variants.
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wackyteen posted...

I'm playing through skyrim for the first time right now and I'm honestly surprised that there is only one Flames spell and it's the novice spell. I don't like the firebolt variants.

There's another spell like that, expert level. It doesn't do more damage though, it just leaves a damaging environmental hazard on surfaces it's sprayed on that barely does any damage.

It also costs so much magicka you'll never use it despite how cool it can look because it is utterly garbage in actual function.

Unless you get so much fortify destruction on your equips that the costs for spells is 0, or close to it, bypassing the truly incredibly badly balanced damage to cost ratio of destruction spells. I remember at the height of my Skyrim playing I did the math and I think it was...after adept, or maybe one more level after that, the damage to cost ratio just tips so far towards cost that they're basically unusable for combat unless you reduce spell costs so much as to render them a non-factor. With the exception of the master shock spell which actually has a good ratio, and looks cool. So, that's nice. Not nearly enough, but nice.
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Yeah Skyrim magic turned out to be pretty lame besides the master shock spell. No idea what they were thinking. It felt so good to use too.

I would play more Skyrim if I hadn't done every quest in the game. That's why I thirst for TES VI
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Unfortunately I believe what they're thinking is "I don't like RPGs very much, and our fans shouldn't either, so I'm going to try and make it less about thinking about numbers"

Which is why for example our armor rating doesn't actually tell us what it does. It's a % reduction, but they obscure it as a meaningless numerical value just so we can't think about it in terms of concrete numbers. It's why they took almost all agency away from enchanting so you can't fine tune the numbers.

Just, after I read that interview when he talked about why spellmaking wasn't returning, I was just shocked that someone behind making one of the most successful RPG series in gaming, would sound like they don't want their game to be about numbers at all.
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thompsontalker7 posted...

So let me get this straight

Don't level up because enemies level up with you and therefore will waste time?

How it works is that you level up your Strength you have to level up your One-Hand, Two-Hand and, wait, isn't it Blade and Blunt? Anyways, if you level one of those up 5 times, you get a Boost to Strength when you level up, but you can only get a certain amount of boosts, and you're doing a lot more than Strength stuff - Like running and jumping, which are based on Speed and since you have to run around and jumping makes running around much faster, you're going to level those up very quickly, which is how the trouble occurs.

If you get too many levels in Speed by doing that, it takes away all the bonuses you could be getting to your Strength or Endurance or whatever. Since you only get a max of 5 points to Invest, and that's if you do things perfectly (Catching X levels in Speed, X levels in Strength) and if you don't do it perfectly, you miss out one these stat bumps you need. So near the end, all you have is character that can run fast because you caught so many Speed levels by simply walking and jumping around, and you can't talk any hits or do much damage because Speed took up all the bonus points.

And I'm sure someone can explain it a lot better, I did my best, lol

Edit - That's right, skills only level you up if they're Major and Minor Skills, so you want to put all the skills you're GOING to use and never make them a Minor or Major so you can more easily control your levels.
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IIRC another issue with the leveling system is that you can easily level up without getting many attributes raised at all, because it's based on major skills. You can raise minor skills plenty and it doesn't contribute to when you need to level up.

Which means the game has you pick major skills, and then it immediately is inefficient to use them a lot.
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Here, top comment -

https://www.reddit.com/r/oblivion/comments/1y9maz/noob_really_not_understanding_the_leveling_system/
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chill02 posted...

jumi posted...

I might as well give you a tip to make shittons of money.

When you get access to spellmaking at the Mage's Guild or by buying Frostcrag Spire DLC, create a spell using Luck + 100 for three seconds. It should be really cheap to cast.

Now, whenever you are about to enter a dungeon, before going in, stop at the door and cast the spell. Enter the door while the spell is still in effect. The loot in the dungeon, because it was loaded while you were extremely lucky, will be great.

luck doesn't affect loot at all

Blatantly untrue. I've collected high level alchemy equipment and other goods with that spell when I get junk without using the spell.
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I have to say that I love the wilderness in this game and didn't find it to be very repetitive when I played it back in the day. Then again, I like the "vanilla"ness of the game. The idyllic countryside is very comforting to me. I like MW and Skyrim, it just makes going back to a "safer" place feel better.

but yeah fuck the leveling
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One of the most broken games of all time. I still love it, though. At least when modded, because the leveling system is absolute ass, both the scaling enemies and your own progression.
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There's also chain spells. Fortify magicka by maximum amount for 3 seconds, plus invisibility if you don't have your chameleon armor set yet, plus max damage of some element on touch. You'll gain so much magicka from it that you effectively have infinite casting ability, but you have to keep mashing the button to cast it or else when it finishes the chain you'll drop to 0 magicka.

There's a way to get weightless daedric armor, and it's considered light armor I believe. Make a chain spell that disintegrates armor on self. Cast the spell to summon a daedric piece of armor (skyrim only has summon weapons) and you'll suddenly have say, a daedric pair of boots for 300 seconds. Spam the chain spell. It'll lose all its condition then fall off of you. Wait until the 300 seconds are up to be safe. Pick it up, repair it, enjoy. Since it's a bound item still, it weighs nothing. Combined with the chameleon effect you'll be able to have plenty of extra carry capacity even at level 1.
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And yes, luck affects loot quality when you enter the dungeon. Can't remember if it's for the whole dungeon or just that cell of the dungeon but the luck spell advice is genuinely helpful.
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Oh yeah I forgot about infinite chain spells.

IIRC fortify magicka effects give you half of what it expanded your max by immediately, so with that you could create spells that would just barely be able to keep being used infinitely. There is definitely a cap on how powerful one of these can be, but being smart about what else you put in the spell can make it more than sufficient.

Another useful conservation trick is, one of the earliest spells actually I made was a spell I called Deathjolt. It was a burst of damage of each of the 3 elements, on touch for lower cost, spread out over...I think 4 seconds.

I don't know the exact science behind it as there's definitely cutoff points, but I discovered that if you hit someone with enough damage in a spell that it will be fatal, even if it takes a few seconds for the damage to kill them, it will knock them down on hit immediately, before they even die, and then soon after they die.

It took the max amount of magicka I had at the time, but it worked on just about any enemy you'd encounter except for the ones that kept scaling endlessly with your level if you're high level enough.

Dunno what the cutoff point was. I forget the exact stats on my original but it was something like 47 damage of each element on touch for 4 seconds I think. That was enough to immediately knock down an enemy and then they soon after die. Whereas if you made like, 5 damage from everything on touch for 120 seconds, that wouldn't knock them down, even if it'd eventually kill them.

So many weird little obscure mechanics like that, that would easily never come into play or be discovered if not for spellmaking.
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The 2nd best ES game
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Leveling up isn't that bad. Here's my suggestion for your 7 Major Skills:
Heavy Armor
Light Armor
Block
Hand-to-Hand
Blade or Blunt (whichever you DON'T plan to use, blades are faster but blunt hits harder)
Mercantile
Mysticism

This gives you some control over when you level up. Mercantile, both Armors, and Block are slow to level up, I never use Mysticism magic, and having two unused weapon skills helps me to be able to level up at will. You gain a level when you gain 10 points towards any 7 of your major skills collectively.

When you level up, you choose 3 stats to increase. Each one of your skills is governed by a stat. How much you increase the skills pertinent to that stat determines the potential bonus to that skill for leveling up. For example, to get the full +5 bonus for Strength for that level up, you must have increased your strength-based skills by at least 10 points.
As another example, with my current character I wanted to increase my Intelligence stat as efficiently as possible, so I used the Spellmaking altar to write the cheapest possible Conjuration spell, which is so cheap that my Magicka regeneration outdoes the cost. I then weighed down the cast button so it continually cast until I gained 10 points to Conjuration. I would do this immediately after each time I leveled up so that I was guaranteed the +5 Intelligence bonus for my next level up and I didn't forget to do it later. I repeated the same process with a Destruction spell targeting myself to increase Willpower.
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Since you have GOTY edition, visit Deepscorn Hollow right away, the Victims Loot Chest there is a safe container to dump your good loot in, some containers reset and are not safe. Explore Deepscorn until you find the Shrine, there is an enchanted dagger in the little box on the ledge of the shrine.

If you want to make money, collect alchemy ingredients from every plant you come by. Join the Mages Guild (it's as simple as walking into one in any of the cities other than the Imperial City) and then you can take all of the food off the tables from every Mages Guild location without it being considered stealing. Brew up potions from all of them and sell them. Go to Battlehorn Castle, kill the Marauders and the castle is yours. Buy the Kitchen or the Living Quarters upgrade, and then you will have an infinite supply of free food to brew into potions to level up your Alchemy score and make lots more money.

I strongly suggest making good use of Alchemy all game long, there's free ingredients everywhere just for doing a little extra looking around. Poisoned arrows can be pretty lethal, there's some pretty powerful potions that can be brewed, even just being able to brew up some healing potions in a pinch with what you just happen to have on hand is nice. Paralysis poisons in particular are devastating in close combat.
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I wouldn't say alchemy makes money, but the paralyze potions were way better than skyrim's version. And that was one of the few possibly broken things in skyrim. In oblivion, enemies can actually be a threat and they keep you alive.

Zombies, oh gosh. And actually scary skeletons.
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If its possible to add mods in that version, I strongly recommend:

- Perk Overhaul. Changes the perks from mostly buffs to total gameplay varieties. So most of the time a new perk means a new gameplay mechanic. Think of it as having 30 different DLCs in one, and will ruin you for any game with perks in the future.

- The Forbidden City quest. If you played Oblivion, remember that awesome house mansion mystery quest? Give that steroids.

jumi posted...

chill02 posted...

jumi posted...

I might as well give you a tip to make shittons of money.

When you get access to spellmaking at the Mage's Guild or by buying Frostcrag Spire DLC, create a spell using Luck + 100 for three seconds. It should be really cheap to cast.

Now, whenever you are about to enter a dungeon, before going in, stop at the door and cast the spell. Enter the door while the spell is still in effect. The loot in the dungeon, because it was loaded while you were extremely lucky, will be great.

luck doesn't affect loot at all

Blatantly untrue. I've collected high level alchemy equipment and other goods with that spell when I get junk without using the spell.

There's nothing in the construction set that points to luck affecting loot.
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My favorite enchantment for a group of enemies was command humanoid & command creature on a bow. Usually I would have one hurt enemy left.

Oblivion gates get boring after a while.

One of the best caves for easy loot I believe was just northwest of Leyawiin. (forget the name)
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The main quest is garbage.

"Here, go close this Oblivion gate."
"Done? Ok, go close this Oblivion gate."
"Done? Ok, go close this Oblivion gate."
"Done? Ok, we're going to switch it up- go close two Oblivion gates."

And I played the hell out of Morrowind. I still give that game a run through every now and then. But Oblivion, not worth the time.
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addled posted...

One of the best caves for easy loot I believe was just northwest of Leyawiin. (forget the name)

Rockmilk Cave, baby.
Another good one is north across the river from the Imperial City. Small sized Ayleid ruin with a boss bandit and a boss chest called Sercen.
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I remember Sercen well.

I'm not sure if the cave you guys are talking about is the one I have in mind... I know it was south of Imperial City. But it wasn't a very large cave, and it had almost exclusively imps in it. I remember it being extremely good for loot for some reason.
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Tmk posted...

I remember Sercen well.

I'm not sure if the cave you guys are talking about is the one I have in mind... I know it was south of Imperial City. But it wasn't a very large cave, and it had almost exclusively imps in it. I remember it being extremely good for loot for some reason.

Robber's Glen Cave! All imps and one boss monster and toooons of chests, that's a good one too.
Rockmilk is the one with bandits and marauders fighting each other so you can just hang out in the shadows and then clean up whoever's left after they're done.

Edit: Oh yeah TC, here's a sneaky tip for you. If you ever get stuck inside a rockfall trap, you can use an AoE spell like fireball to blast the rocks away. The rocks flying around might hurt you, but it's better than resetting. Only happened to me a few times, but there you go.
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