Current Events > America: Too poor to buy homes, pay rent/car loan

(+) Yeah! (+)

Fishy posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Nice try, but rent here is around $350/mo for a single bedroom and $500/mo for a two bedroom. And that $10,000 isn't an asspull number. It's what my grandmother paid to replace her roof last year in the same area as those rents. Remember, that's $10,000 OVER her monthly mortgage and home owner's insurance

Alright cool so that means house prices are pretty low and you can easily budget in $10k then.

A similar house to my grandma's is currently in the market for $140,000. Full size basement, around 2000 SQ ft. Not sure what a similar size house rents for
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fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

That's what insurance is for.
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Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

I live the suburbs of Northern Virginia, Sterling/Ashburn to be specific. It's a very affluent region, even though the city my mom/roommate live in (Manassas) is considered to be the cheaper and more run down options in this area. A lot of the houses Manassas are old - my old roommate's house was built in the late 60's/early 70's and my mom's house was built in 1959. Not every area is new and modern. Both houses are in relatively good shape, but suffer from problems that all older houses have - age, weather, poor construction for whatever reason, and lack of proper care by former owners. Owning and maintaining property is hard and expensive work.

Here's what I had to do to rebuild the outer load bearing wall in the corner of my mom's house:








This happened because of old termite damage that was either never known about or never addressed, and also because there were no weep holes in the bottom of the outer brick facade to let moisture drain out. The wood at the base of the wall disintegrated when you touched it.

Stuff happens, and it's expensive and time consuming.

A5modeu5 posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

That's what insurance is for.

Insurance never covers normal wear and tear on structures. If a tree crushes your roof insurance will pay to fix it. If your roof just wears out over time you're paying for it out of pocket
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fire_bolt posted...

A5modeu5 posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

That's what insurance is for.

Insurance never covers normal wear and tear on structures. If a tree crushes your roof insurance will pay to fix it. If your roof just wears out over time you're paying for it out of pocket

Your roof and floor dont wear out every year though.
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treewojima posted...

Stuff happens, and it's expensive and time consuming.

It's all part of life I guess. You hire a damn good home Inspector that'll tell you about all of these things and if you're expecting a new roof then make an offer accordingly and if they tell you to fuck off well tell them to enjoy the roof and keep looking.

I'm sorry but I'll never see renting/leasing as a long term solution.
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I never said they did?
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fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Nice try, but rent here is around $350/mo for a single bedroom and $500/mo for a two bedroom. And that $10,000 isn't an asspull number. It's what my grandmother paid to replace her roof last year in the same area as those rents. Remember, that's $10,000 OVER her monthly mortgage and home owner's insurance

Alright cool so that means house prices are pretty low and you can easily budget in $10k then.

A similar house to my grandma's is currently in the market for $140,000. Full size basement, around 2000 SQ ft. Not sure what a similar size house rents for

Then your math is very very off. $350 is barely half the mortgage payment a month without adding in any kind of property tax or home owners insurance. Either her house is worth a whole lot less than 140k, rent in the area is no where near $350 a month, or you are just making things up. Beyond that for what is basically a 1200sqft house (not counting the finished basement) unless she went and bought the most expensive slate tiles on the market, she didnt pay anywhere near 10k for a roof unless she got ripped off horribly.
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fire_bolt posted...

A5modeu5 posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

That's what insurance is for.

Insurance never covers normal wear and tear on structures. If a tree crushes your roof insurance will pay to fix it. If your roof just wears out over time you're paying for it out of pocket

And termites are never covered because they are considered basic maintenance the home owner is responsible for.
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People don't always have the money or opportunity to make financially sound decisions like that. A good home inspector is expensive, and in my mom's case, she was having enough health problems and financial difficulty that she needed to sell her old 3 level townhouse pronto during the housing crisis. You take what you can get and you deal with it however you can.

Hence, some people prefer to rent to save themselves the stress of owning a expensive home and potentially losing it. That's why I'm renting, because I can't afford a house right now. Someday, sure, but I'm not going to beat myself up for renting when I don't want to deal with being a homeowner.

Black Friday is the BEST time to get deals on gaming systems, and great personal items. Nothing wrong with it at all :D
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Fishy posted...

"I can't afford a house."

"I can't wait to buy my second iPhone this year!"

A house is expensive and a HUGE investment

A second iPhone is not.
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Fishy posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

It's almost as if one doesn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

It's almost as if frivolous spending adds up. That's a thousand more dollars on a down payment.

Lol savings
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It's a house, it's a pretty big life decision. What stopped her from renting while she looked for a solid house? I'm not against renting period but when you do it out of what posters keep telling me is basically sheer laziness (not saying your mother is at all) and then wonder why you don't have the money for a real house I've gotta wonder where your thought process is.
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Nice try, but rent here is around $350/mo for a single bedroom and $500/mo for a two bedroom. And that $10,000 isn't an asspull number. It's what my grandmother paid to replace her roof last year in the same area as those rents. Remember, that's $10,000 OVER her monthly mortgage and home owner's insurance

Alright cool so that means house prices are pretty low and you can easily budget in $10k then.

A similar house to my grandma's is currently in the market for $140,000. Full size basement, around 2000 SQ ft. Not sure what a similar size house rents for

Then your math is very very off. $350 is barely half the mortgage payment a month without adding in any kind of property tax or home owners insurance. Either her house is worth a whole lot less than 140k, rent in the area is no where near $350 a month, or you are just making things up. Beyond that for what is basically a 1200sqft house (not counting the finished basement) unless she went and bought the most expensive slate tiles on the market, she didnt pay anywhere near 10k for a roof unless she got ripped off horribly.

Read again. I said $350 was rent for a single bedroom apartment. I specifically said I don't know what a similar house rents for. Also, it's 2000 SQ ft WITHOUT the basement.

As for the roof, I think you're just looking at the price to re-shingle. She needed structure damage repairs too.
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Godnorgosh posted...

That's fine, because you don't have to make those decisions for other people - particularly if it's working out for them anyway.

Clearly not considering all of the "houses are expensive!" posts I see on Instagram.
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Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Not surprised that Godnorgosh is really this illiterate. Couldn't even read the article properly.

You mean the article written by someone describing how stagnant wages and the cost of college sucked his family dry? I just copy-pasted two paragraphs directly refuting your point, and because you know you're wrong, all you can do in response is deflect.

He literally pissed away his savings trying to keep up with the Joneses for his kids, with schools and other things that were way too expensive. He even outright says it's his fault.
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And it's that way for the majority of Americans who have money problems.

Most people make too much money to be broke, but they buy way too much stuff they don't need. More car, house, and degree than they need.
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Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Not surprised that Godnorgosh is really this illiterate. Couldn't even read the article properly.

You mean the article written by someone describing how stagnant wages and the cost of college sucked his family dry? I just copy-pasted two paragraphs directly refuting your point, and because you know you're wrong, all you can do in response is deflect.

He literally pissed away his savings trying to keep up with the Joneses for his kids, with schools and other things that were way too expensive. He even outright says it's his fault.

But even having made those choices, which involved revolving credit, for the better part of my life I was not drowning in debt (maybe treading in it okay, barely treading). Until about five years ago, when I stopped using my credit cards altogether and started paying them off little by little with the help of a financial counselor, Id always managed to pay at least the monthly minimum and sometimes more. I didnt have savings, but not because I thought I could rely forever on credit instead or because I chose to spend my money extravagantly rather than salt it away. In retrospect, of course, my problem was simple: too little income, too many expenses. Credit enabled me to forestall this problem for a timeand also to make it progressively worsebut the root of the problem was deeper.

I never figured that I wouldnt earn enough. Few of us do. I thought Id done most of the right things. I went to college; got a graduate degree; taught for a while; got a book contract; moved to a small, inexpensive, rent-controlled apartment in Little Italy to write; got married; and bumped along until I landed a job on television (those of you with elephant memories may remember that for three years, I was one of the replacements for Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert on the PBS movie-review show Sneak Previews). Then my wife and I bought a small coop apartment in Brooklyn, which we could afford, and had our two daughters. My wife continued to work, and we managed to scrape by, though child care and then private schools crimped our finances. No, we didnt have to send our girls to private schools. We could have sent them to the public school in our neighborhood, except that it wasnt very good, and we resolved to sacrifice our own comforts to give our daughters theirs. Some economists attribute the need for credit and the drive to spend with the keeping up with the Joneses syndrome, which is so prevalent in America. I never wanted to keep up with the Joneses. But, like many Americans, I wanted my children to keep up with the Joneses children, because I knew how easily my girls could be marginalized in a society where nearly all the rewards go to a small, well-educated elite. (All right, I wanted them to be winners.)

There's more to the story than financial irresponsibility. I mean, yeah, he could have sent his children to a shittier public school and not have sent them to college at all, but that would require sacrificing his children's education for extra savings. It's a catch-22. Of course, he made these choices. But he made them in the context of a society that put him between a rock and a hard place.

No, dude. He had too little income for the multitude of unnecessary expenses he had.

He actually made a decent amount of money as a successful writer. He squandered it. He could've sent them to a good public school and spent less in general.

America is a blessed country where anyone can succeed as long as you don't stunt your financial trajectory through needless spending.
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Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Not surprised that Godnorgosh is really this illiterate. Couldn't even read the article properly.

You mean the article written by someone describing how stagnant wages and the cost of college sucked his family dry? I just copy-pasted two paragraphs directly refuting your point, and because you know you're wrong, all you can do in response is deflect.

He literally pissed away his savings trying to keep up with the Joneses for his kids, with schools and other things that were way too expensive. He even outright says it's his fault.

But even having made those choices, which involved revolving credit, for the better part of my life I was not drowning in debt (maybe treading in it okay, barely treading). Until about five years ago, when I stopped using my credit cards altogether and started paying them off little by little with the help of a financial counselor, Id always managed to pay at least the monthly minimum and sometimes more. I didnt have savings, but not because I thought I could rely forever on credit instead or because I chose to spend my money extravagantly rather than salt it away. In retrospect, of course, my problem was simple: too little income, too many expenses. Credit enabled me to forestall this problem for a timeand also to make it progressively worsebut the root of the problem was deeper.

I never figured that I wouldnt earn enough. Few of us do. I thought Id done most of the right things. I went to college; got a graduate degree; taught for a while; got a book contract; moved to a small, inexpensive, rent-controlled apartment in Little Italy to write; got married; and bumped along until I landed a job on television (those of you with elephant memories may remember that for three years, I was one of the replacements for Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert on the PBS movie-review show Sneak Previews). Then my wife and I bought a small coop apartment in Brooklyn, which we could afford, and had our two daughters. My wife continued to work, and we managed to scrape by, though child care and then private schools crimped our finances. No, we didnt have to send our girls to private schools. We could have sent them to the public school in our neighborhood, except that it wasnt very good, and we resolved to sacrifice our own comforts to give our daughters theirs. Some economists attribute the need for credit and the drive to spend with the keeping up with the Joneses syndrome, which is so prevalent in America. I never wanted to keep up with the Joneses. But, like many Americans, I wanted my children to keep up with the Joneses children, because I knew how easily my girls could be marginalized in a society where nearly all the rewards go to a small, well-educated elite. (All right, I wanted them to be winners.)

There's more to the story than financial irresponsibility. I mean, yeah, he could have sent his children to a shittier public school and not have sent them to college at all, but that would require sacrificing his children's education for extra savings. It's a catch-22. Of course, he made these choices. But he made them in the context of a society that put him between a rock and a hard place.

His Emory and Harvard educated girls are going to make the same money a Costco cashier makes. They arent winners. They are making slightly above poverty level wages. They could have dropped out of public highschool and made the same money
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Fishy posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

That's fine, because you don't have to make those decisions for other people - particularly if it's working out for them anyway.

Clearly not considering all of the "houses are expensive!" posts I see on Instagram.

you seem to be stuck on the idea that if a person can't afford a mortgage, their lives are not working out well.

that... is false
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A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

That sounds like a serious California problem. I also showed earlier you can find <40k houses in California within 2 hours of major cities. 1 I found less than 45 minutes from the capital
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FFVII_REMAKE posted...

70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

Due to overspending / financing useless shit.

There's a reason consumer debt like car loans is at an all time high.
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

That sounds like a serious California problem. I also showed earlier you can find <40k houses in California within 2 hours of major cities. 1 I found less than 45 minutes from the capital

Houses that hover between $500K-$600K are homes that are an hour or more away from major cities.... these are people that waste 2+ hours everyday commuting to work. Back in 2008, some or most of the houses in the city were the same price. Now they've doubled and just continue to go up.

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

That sounds like a serious California problem. I also showed earlier you can find <40k houses in California within 2 hours of major cities. 1 I found less than 45 minutes from the capital

Houses that hover between $500K-$600K are homes that are an hour or more away from major cities.... these are people that waste 2+ hours everyday commuting to work. Back in 2008, some or most of the houses in the city were the same price. Now they've doubled and just continue to go up.

That sounds like the California housing market and economy in general is about to implode.

Ill still find a house within 2 hours of any Cali city that is under 40k though. Name a major metropolitan city. Ill post links
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Our poor are just really stupid people who are bad with money.
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ManBeast462 posted...

Our poor are just really stupid people who are bad with money.

Poor people are generally poor because they make poor people decisions. Kind of like how so many lottery winners end up bankrupt even after winning millions of dollars. Money doesnt change a persons thinking. They continue making the same bad decisions... they just add zeros to the end of their bad decisions
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Since I live alone and probably will live alone for a long time, what incentive to buying a huge house benefits me?
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

That sounds like a serious California problem. I also showed earlier you can find <40k houses in California within 2 hours of major cities. 1 I found less than 45 minutes from the capital

Houses that hover between $500K-$600K are homes that are an hour or more away from major cities.... these are people that waste 2+ hours everyday commuting to work. Back in 2008, some or most of the houses in the city were the same price. Now they've doubled and just continue to go up.

That sounds like the California housing market and economy in general is about to implode.

Ill still find a house within 2 hours of any Cali city that is under 40k though. Name a major metropolitan city. Ill post links

San Francisco

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A home in California averages $1M. You need to put down a 20% downpayment to mortgage a home here in the current market. 70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings or no savings at all.

That sounds like a serious California problem. I also showed earlier you can find <40k houses in California within 2 hours of major cities. 1 I found less than 45 minutes from the capital

Houses that hover between $500K-$600K are homes that are an hour or more away from major cities.... these are people that waste 2+ hours everyday commuting to work. Back in 2008, some or most of the houses in the city were the same price. Now they've doubled and just continue to go up.

That sounds like the California housing market and economy in general is about to implode.

Ill still find a house within 2 hours of any Cali city that is under 40k though. Name a major metropolitan city. Ill post links

San Francisco

Thats easy. I posted 2 earlier in this topic. Both under 30k
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

iPhones and TVs are a lot cheaper than mortgages and cars.

True. But the opportunity costs of spending thousands per year on phones and televisions is much higher than the sticker price of the items.

Buying a new iphone each year is definitely keeping some people stagnant. $1000 for the phone and $80 for data plans means close to $2000 a year in phone costs. Throw in other bad decisions and you're quickly eliminating your income which is your greatest wealth building tool.
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knuxnole posted...

Since I live alone and probably will live alone for a long time, what incentive to buying a huge house benefits me?

Who said it has to be huge?
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

$2000 a year is far less than a mortgage or car.

I like how you added bad decisions. You know, to conveniently explain why they cant afford a mortgage or car.

There's also the "70% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings" figure but I mean let's just ignore that.
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

$2000 a year is far less than a mortgage or car.

I like how you added bad decisions. You know, to conveniently explain why they cant afford a mortgage or car.

$2000 a year for a fucking phone is a bad decision that severely stunts the average person's financial trajectory. Especially when it's coupled with other bad decisions. Someone who spends that much on a phone is likely making other bad decisions that add up to even more.

Note also that we are at a record high of car debt in this country. People are financing $35,000 cars when they make $35,000 a year. On 7 year notes. At high interest.

You lot pretend it's some problem with wages and evidence of needing socialism, when in reality the average person is more than capable of saving and investing if they weren't shitting away their income on things they don't need. There's no reason to finance a $35,000 car or even a $15,000 car.

Keep in mind that blue collar wages have been going up. The average household income is still very strong. Most people are just making awful decisions and then shitposting about needing socialism.
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$2000 a year invested into a fund over a 15 year period at 10% interest gets you close to $70,000.

Suddenly that phone is much more expensive! The same is true of most things people buy. The upper class buys what they need and then invests. Whereas the lower and middle class buy wants and then barely save/invest.

Keeping up with the Joneses leaves you broke.
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

You do realize inflation is a thing right? $70,000 in 15 years doesnt nearly have the same value as it has in 2017.

It'll still be a lot of money. What a mind boggingly stupid response. Holy fuck.

The point was that the yearly cost of the phone itself is immense. Especially when you look at it over a longer period of time. This and other bad decisions combine to keep people poor and broke.

Stop making bad decisions. Stop rationalizing them with unbeleivably ignorant complaints about inflation. Put your money where it will grow in value.
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

I can spend $2000 a year without being broke quite fine. Your bad decisions argument is very vague and conveniently serves to spruce up your argument. Without it, youre literally saying people who buy things are the reason people are poor.

Most people who are spending $2000 a year on a phone are hurting their own future. Spending that much on a phone is wasteful spending. It is not efficient.

Be efficient and frugal. Grow your net worth to a few million so you can be free and then help those around you.
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

iPhones and TVs are a lot cheaper than mortgages and cars.

Thing is you dont need to waste so much on phones and TVs so much. Save up for a few years instead of this stupid wasteful spending and you have your down payment for a house or car.
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

be a millionaire or gtfo

"don't spend all of your money on coffee and brunch and then whine about how student loans are facism"
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27_Sandman_40 posted...

be a millionaire or gtfo

Please spend that $2000 on some critical thinking and reading courses.
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