Current Events > America: Too poor to buy homes, pay rent/car loan

(+) Yeah! (+)

averagejoel posted...

how much would a mortgage in the same area cost

I bet you it's not $1 million (the price of renting for 40 years)
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Fishy posted...

I bet you it's not $1 million (the price of renting for 40 years)

Why not just give the answer?

Fishy posted...

averagejoel posted...

have you heard of property tax

Tell me how much you think annual property tax is.

it varies depending on the area and the specific conditions of the property. much like rent
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I work for a company that provides an alternative to bankruptcy and some of the people I talk to are ridiculous.

JE19426 posted...

Fishy posted...

Because at the end you've spent all that money and own nothing???

So am I pissing away money I spend on food, since in the end I have from it?

False equivalence.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Very good, Fishy! That brings us to our final lesson! Which is: don't live in California.

You could either rent for 15 years or buy a house at median price in Montana.
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Fishy posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

It's almost as if one doesn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

It's almost as if frivolous spending adds up. That's a thousand more dollars on a down payment.

Yes, lemme get on that buying a house situation with my 35k a year salary and car payment and debt.
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JE19426 posted...

Why not just give the answer?

I don't like math man but average house price is $635k and mortgage rates are 4.13% for 30yr
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Fishy posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Very good, Fishy! That brings us to our final lesson! Which is: don't live in California.

You could either rent for 15 years or buy a house at median price in Montana.

not everyone wants to live in cattle country
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Fishy posted...

averagejoel posted...

how much would a mortgage in the same area cost

I bet you it's not $1 million (the price of renting for 40 years)

Uh

The obsession with spending all your money on Black Friday has always been a phenomenon since it's inception.

I don't know about anybody else, but I always make sure I pay my rent and bills before I even think about spending money on anything else.
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BF is pretty much the one time per year that I buy stuff I want. I'm planning on spending about $270.

And really $55 of that is practical stuff anyway.
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HydraSlayer82 posted...

False equivalence.

It's not an equivalence at all so it clearly isn't a false equivalence.

Southernfatman posted...

Today: Be thankful for what you have
Tomorrow: Trample over people to buy shit you don't need.

Lol not even reserved for tomorrow anymore. Starts at 6 PM on the day of thanks
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JosefuJustice11 posted...

The obsession with spending all your money on Black Friday has always been a phenomenon since it's inception.

I don't know about anybody else, but I always make sure I pay my rent and bills before I even think about spending money on anything else.

33% of my salary goes to rent and utilities
33% goes into retirement funds
20% goes to necessary expenses like food and gas

The remaining goes to frivolous spending, or ideally cash savings. I make $60K and my budget only allows $20 of wasteful spending every day, which is basically nothing.

Too many people think "I make $35K, so I can afford a $35K car."

I drive a 12 year old piece of crap that costs free 99 and I love it.

clearaflagrantj posted...

33% of my salary goes to rent and utilities
33% goes into retirement funds
20% goes to necessary expenses like food and gas

The remaining goes to frivolous spending, or ideally cash savings. I make $60K and my budget only allows $20 of wasteful spending every day, which is basically nothing.

Too many people think "I make $35K, so I can afford a $35K car."

I drive a 12 year old piece of crap that costs free 99 and I love it.

Thank you for being sensible. I drive an 03 Xterra (which is kind of a bad choice with gas mileage) that I paid off when I bought it. My friend called me an idiot for buying such an old car as he's about to sell his paid off 2012 Malibu to lease a brand new Tacoma "because he moves a lot and needs the bed" (you're a fucking college student you don't need a fucking 2018 Tacoma to move your futon)
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Millennials: Houses are too expensive, only the wealthy can do it!

Also Millennials: Happily spends 6$ 3-5 days a week on a cup of coffee, buys fast food 3-5 times a week costing about 4$-8$ each time. These add up to at least 30$ - 70$ a week of wasted income and 120$ - 280$ a month in money they could have used to pay a mortgage for a home.

Seriously it makes no sense. If you live within your limits, a home mortgage costs either less or the same as rent for a shitty apartment. And if you live in the city, be willing to go outside city limits for cheaper housing. It's that fucking simple.
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I like when people try to argue how much money they're saving during it

Bitch you're not saving anything, you're just spending a bit less than you would normally.
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People in support of owning a home clearly DON'T. While you may end up with "something" at the end, it's not as cut and dry as "renting is just wasting money, owning is an investment". You also have a lot of "wasted" money costs associated with home ownership like property tax, home owner's insurance, routine maintenance ( such as yard mowing and tree trimming), unusual maintenance ( such as needing to re-shingle a roof or repair a damaged floor), and many other hidden costs.

At the end of the day, "owning" a home can incur costs nearly equal to your monthly mortgage payment in money you'll never see permanent value on. In contrast, if you rent, the owner of the property is on the hook for all those costs. Many people who can afford to buy a house simply prefer to rent because it's a much simpler option.
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I'm Canadian and dropping about $1200 on Black Friday to overhaul my gaming setup. Getting a Ryzen, 1080, new motherboard/RAM, a new desk, and another monitor.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

ledbowman posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Also America: Wastes all their money on Black Friday

smdh

The whole deal with Black Friday shopping is spending less.

Except Black Friday results in an increase in net spending vs BF not existing, because people are buying shit they don't need.

BUT lT lS 80% OFF!
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move to michigan. tons of cheap land and housing.

and nothing wrong with wanting to save some money on black friday.
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Americans have a spending problem. Consumerism is what is killing people's ability to save and invest.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Also America: Wastes all their money on Black Friday

smdh

aren't things like 80-90% off in black friday? they're being 10x more efficient with their money wastages in that situation.

AlternativeFAQS posted...

Fishy posted...

"I can't afford a house."

"I can't wait to buy my second iPhone this year!"

It's almost as if one doesn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

No one is paying for an iPhone out of pocket either. They are financing it through their phone company. My friend for example gets a new phone every time something cool comes out, at $700+ each... then pays $35 a month for it until it is paid off... except he will get a new phone before even 1/3 of the old one is paid off.

In short, Americans will buy ANYTHING if they can finance it into a low low monthly payment. Yet homes seem to scare them for some reason. Ive always kind of thought of it as Americans today will do anything to avoid responsibility and would rather the "freedom" of being able to run away tomorrow instead of making intelligent decisions about their life. You will hear a lot of people say having a mortgage as "scary" but their phone bill is almost the same price their house would have been.
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Godnorgosh posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Americans have a spending problem. Consumerism is what is killing people's ability to save and invest.

Rent/housing, education and healthcare costs combined with low or stagnant wages are hurting people much more than unnecessary spending tbh.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/
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fire_bolt posted...

People in support of owning a home clearly DON'T. While you may end up with "something" at the end, it's not as cut and dry as "renting is just wasting money, owning is an investment". You also have a lot of "wasted" money costs associated with home ownership like property tax, home owner's insurance, routine maintenance ( such as yard mowing and tree trimming), unusual maintenance ( such as needing to re-shingle a roof or repair a damaged floor), and many other hidden costs.

At the end of the day, "owning" a home can incur costs nearly equal to your monthly mortgage payment in money you'll never see permanent value on. In contrast, if you rent, the owner of the property is on the hook for all those costs. Many people who can afford to buy a house simply prefer to rent because it's a much simpler option.

Look up Sinking Fund

Owning will always be cheaper than renting and in expensive areas, ends up being MUCH cheaper even after you factor in maintenance and repairs. My 205k house for example that has a mortgage of a shade less than $790 a month, $200 a month in property tax, and right around $140 a month for HOI... this house would easily rent for between $2200 and $2500 a month in this area. I could replace the roof, hot water tank, and all appliances a year, and still not spend all of the "extra" money. That isnt even factoring in interest accrued from the Sinking Fund which usually pays for 1-2 months of the mortgage every year itself
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fire_bolt posted...

People in support of owning a home clearly DON'T. While you may end up with "something" at the end, it's not as cut and dry as "renting is just wasting money, owning is an investment". You also have a lot of "wasted" money costs associated with home ownership like property tax, home owner's insurance, routine maintenance ( such as yard mowing and tree trimming), unusual maintenance ( such as needing to re-shingle a roof or repair a damaged floor), and many other hidden costs.

At the end of the day, "owning" a home can incur costs nearly equal to your monthly mortgage payment in money you'll never see permanent value on. In contrast, if you rent, the owner of the property is on the hook for all those costs. Many people who can afford to buy a house simply prefer to rent because it's a much simpler option.

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Godnorgosh posted...

Proudclad doesn't even read the articles he links to:

And then, on top of it all, came the biggest shock, though one not unanticipated: college. Because I made too much money for the girls to get more than meager scholarships, but too little money to afford to pay for their educations in full, and becauseanother choicewe believed they had earned the right to attend good universities, universities of their choice, we found ourselves in a financial vortex. (I am not saying that universities are extortionists, but universities are extortionists. One daughters college told me that because I could pay my mortgage, I could afford her tuition.) In the end, my parents wound up covering most of the cost of the girls educations. We couldnt have done it any other way. Although I dont have any regrets about that choiceone daughter went to Stanford, was a Rhodes Scholar, and is now at Harvard Medical School; the other went to Emory, joined WorldTeach and then AmeriCorps, got a masters degree from the University of Texas, and became a licensed clinical social worker specializing in traumatized childrenpaying that tariff meant there would be no inheritance when my parents passed on. It meant that we had depleted not only our own small savings, but my parents as well.

Perhaps none of this would have happened if my income had steadily grown the way incomes used to grow in America. It didnt, and they dont. There was a good year here or thereanother television job, a new book contract, that movie sale. But mostly my wages remained steady, which meant that, when adjusted for inflation, their buying power dipped. For magazine pieces, I was making exactly what I had made 20 years earlier. And I wasnt alone. Real hourly wagesthat is, wage rates adjusted for inflationpeaked in 1972; since then, the average hourly wage has essentially been flat. (These figures do not include the value of benefits, which has increased.)

I really hope that quote is written as a cautionary "dont do what I did" tale, and not "how things are broken". He basically bankrupted the life savings of his parents, financially compromised his entire life, and did it all to send his daughters to Ivy league schools... to become a clinical social worker with an average lifetime wage of between 32 and 50k a year.

He just ensured 3 generations of the same family will die broke and penniless
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give it time. The market will correct itself. Houses are overvalued for now
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

He just ensured 3 generations of the same family will die broke and penniless

Yup.

That's why if I do have kids, God willing I don't, I will pass down a metric fuckton of wealth that will last multiple generations. I don't understand what's so hard about investing money now for a much stronger future.

"you can't afford a $300,000+ thing so therefore you are never allowed to buy things you enjoy ever until you can afford that $300,000+ thing"

...I mean TC i get where you were trying to go with this....but use some common sense, man.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

He just ensured 3 generations of the same family will die broke and penniless

Yup.

That's why if I do have kids, God willing I don't, I will pass down a metric fuckton of wealth that will last multiple generations. I don't understand what's so hard about investing money now for a much stronger future.

Or at the very very least, do not let your children go into a career that has the same salary warehouse order picker. Even failing that, do not let yourself or your child spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to make the salary of a warehouse order picker. Now that I think about it... he bankrupted 2 generations of family in order for his daughter to make less money than a Costco cashier. She didnt need to go to Emery and get a Masters degree to push buttons on a cash register.
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treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?
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TheVipaGTS posted...

"you can't afford a $300,000+ thing so therefore you are never allowed to buy things you enjoy ever until you can afford that $300,000+ thing"

...I mean TC i get where you were trying to go with this....but use some common sense, man.

Id be willing to bet there are people on this website who drive a car with a monthly payment higher than a mortgage on a reasonable home would have been. You dont need to live in an over priced city. Houses can be found for 30-50k all day every day in the rest of the country. Condos can be found for 10-20k.

Maybe that is the real problem. People want to live far above their means. If you make 40k a year, you have no business driving a 30k car. You should be living in a 30k house.
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Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000
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Not surprised that Godnorgosh is really this illiterate. Couldn't even read the article properly.
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

"you can't afford a $300,000+ thing so therefore you are never allowed to buy things you enjoy ever until you can afford that $300,000+ thing"

...I mean TC i get where you were trying to go with this....but use some common sense, man.

Id be willing to bet there are people on this website who drive a car with a monthly payment higher than a mortgage on a reasonable home would have been. You dont need to live in an over priced city. Houses can be found for 30-50k all day every day in the rest of the country. Condos can be found for 10-20k.

Maybe that is the real problem. People want to live far above their means. If you make 40k a year, you have no business driving a 30k car. You should be living in a 30k house.

You think the same ones driving a car with high monthly payments are the same ones living in an area where a house costs 10-50k?

Also, where the hell are these places where houses cost that little?
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fire_bolt posted...

Fishy posted...

treewojima posted...

This. I'm wondering if Fishy owns property or ever has. If he does, he's either the handiest man in the world with unlimited time and dedication, or does well enough for himself to afford taxes and upkeep. My friend owns a house that he took over the mortgage on when his mom died, and it's a lot of work. He's a very skilled DIYer and has a basement and garage full of tools and equipment, but even he is having to put off repairing his sewage system for financial and time reasons. This is the same guy who rented a small backhoe to dig up my mom's front yard when her own sewer main collapsed, so sometimes raw skill and knowledge doesn't cut it.

Where the fuck do you people live where you're spending hundreds of dollars a month just to keep your houses from falling apart?

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

Look up my post on a Sinking Fund.

Also, a roof lasts anywhere between 20-40 years. Even at the extreme high end of 10k to replace it, that works out to roughly $27 a month without any kind of interest factored in. A floor most certainly doesnt cost 10k unless you mean the entire subfloor of the home and the joists it sits on. Which is the same case of termites... you shouldnt have bought that house/let it get that bad to begin with. Termites are very easy to avoid with just basic maintenance.
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emblem boy posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

"you can't afford a $300,000+ thing so therefore you are never allowed to buy things you enjoy ever until you can afford that $300,000+ thing"

...I mean TC i get where you were trying to go with this....but use some common sense, man.

Id be willing to bet there are people on this website who drive a car with a monthly payment higher than a mortgage on a reasonable home would have been. You dont need to live in an over priced city. Houses can be found for 30-50k all day every day in the rest of the country. Condos can be found for 10-20k.

Maybe that is the real problem. People want to live far above their means. If you make 40k a year, you have no business driving a 30k car. You should be living in a 30k house.

You think the same ones driving a car with high monthly payments are the same ones living in an area where a house costs 10-50k?

Also, where the hell are these places where houses cost that little?

No, I imagine the people driving a 30k car are renting their apartment (possibly with room mates helping with that rent) and complaining they have no money... which are also the same kind of people who will go on vacation paid for on credit cards.

As for home prices. Name a state. Ill find you a house for less than 50k within 2 hours of a major city
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

Houses can be found for 30-50k all day every day in the rest of the country. Condos can be found for 10-20k.

Not everywhere. I live in a small city about an hour and a half away from the San Fran. Roughly an hour from the Bay Area...Houses here are starting at the 300k+ range. I know I can get a house in the 30k range if I move....to a drastically different state and completely change my life/job/etc....Its just not something I can comfortably do at the moment or even know if I'd want to do. In the mean time, I live comfortably and spending a few hundred (if that) on a few games or a phone for the time being doesn't mean I'm living above my means.
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fire_bolt posted...

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

So between 6 months and a year of rent? And once again you'll have a sweet home with a roof that'll last at least 20 years as opposed to absolutely nothing.
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Fishy posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

So between 6 months and a year of rent? And once again you'll have a sweet home with a roof that'll last at least 20 years as opposed to absolutely nothing.

lol, i wish a year of rent was 10k here. Minimal you're looking at 16-18k.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

lol, i wish a year of rent was 10k here. Minimal you're looking at 16-18k.

I was being generous lol, in SF it'd be more like three months.
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Fishy posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Replacing a roof, floor, or getting rid of termites will cost you around $10,000

So between 6 months and a year of rent? And once again you'll have a sweet home with a roof that'll last at least 20 years as opposed to absolutely nothing.

Nice try, but rent here is around $350/mo for a single bedroom and $500/mo for a two bedroom. And that $10,000 isn't an asspull number. It's what my grandmother paid to replace her roof last year in the same area as those rents. Remember, that's $10,000 OVER her monthly mortgage and home owner's insurance
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fire_bolt posted...

Nice try, but rent here is around $350/mo for a single bedroom and $500/mo for a two bedroom. And that $10,000 isn't an asspull number. It's what my grandmother paid to replace her roof last year in the same area as those rents. Remember, that's $10,000 OVER her monthly mortgage and home owner's insurance

Alright cool so that means house prices are pretty low and you can easily budget in $10k then.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

Houses can be found for 30-50k all day every day in the rest of the country. Condos can be found for 10-20k.

Not everywhere. I live in a small city about an hour and a half away from the San Fran. Roughly an hour from the Bay Area...Houses here are starting at the 300k+ range. I know I can get a house in the 30k range if I move....to a drastically different state and completely change my life/job/etc....Its just not something I can comfortably do at the moment or even know if I'd want to do. In the mean time, I live comfortably and spending a few hundred (if that) on a few games or a phone for the time being doesn't mean I'm living above my means.

You said it yourself... Its not something you WANT to do. At the same time, are you capping out your 401k every year? Do you have an IRA? Have a 1 year emergency fund? If you are not going to be financially secure at age 67 without social security, you are living beyond your means.

As for finding a house just about anywhere for under 50k within 2 hours of a major city

https://tinyurl.com/yay5nyt2

An hour and 40 minutes from San Fran for 30k. You can be closer and spend less if you went to Stockton instead of Modesto as well. I was even nice and didnt suggest this place for 10k less than 45 minutes away from Sacramento

https://tinyurl.com/y7ot4ctu
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