Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - Thanksgiving (brought to you by Trump) [dwmf]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kenri posted...

Sorry he's hooked up to an iron lung (that you own) so nope you just have to bear with him for nine months.

Ok, sure. I'll bear with him for nine months if the alternative is to kill him.
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redrocket_pub posted...

Kenri posted...

Sorry he's hooked up to an iron lung (that you own) so nope you just have to bear with him for nine months.

Ok, sure. I'll bear with him for nine months if the alternative is to kill him.

Then there's no inconsistency in your case I guess, as with foolmo. I still wouldn't feel good about imposing this kind of thing on people on the regular but my feelings on it are irrelevant.
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Kenri posted...

Sure and yet those people are still fine with human death/denial of rights/etc in tons of other cases where the ambiguity of their life isn't even in question.

Yes but what I'm saying is that abortion arguments never even get to that level. They almost never get passed "is this bundle of cells a human or not". The argument earlier ITT definitely didn't.
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Kenri posted...

Then there's no inconsistency in your case I guess, as with foolmo. I still wouldn't feel good about imposing this kind of thing on people on the regular but my feelings on it are irrelevant.

I mean you SHOULD feel bad about invading my home and attaching yourself to my iron lung

But I agree with red that I still wouldn't kill you for it... it's honestly a pretty impressive feat so you deserve some charity for it

Also I am fine with first trimester abortion and also with kicking your deadbeat ass out of my house if you don't pay rent
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foolm0r0n posted...

I mean you SHOULD feel bad about invading my home and attaching yourself to my iron lung

i'm not the one doing it lmao i meant i'd feel bad imposing red's decision on people who didn't decide it themselves

foolm0r0n posted...

Yes but what I'm saying is that abortion arguments never even get to that level. They almost never get passed "is this bundle of cells a human or not". The argument earlier ITT definitely didn't.

We're just going in circles now since my question was essentially "why does this happen when it seemingly doesn't actually matter to most people?"

*shrug* I dunno how to explain it better or how to better understand your replies.
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https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2017/safetypoliciesdec2017.html

Accounts that affiliate with organizations that use or promote violence against civilians to further their causes. Groups included in this policy will be those that identify as such or engage in activity both on and off the platform that promotes violence. This policy does not apply to military or government entities and we will consider exceptions for groups that are currently engaging in (or have engaged in) peaceful resolution.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool
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Basically they're saying they can't ban @POTUS
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Kenri posted...

We're just going in circles now since my question was essentially "why does this happen when it seemingly doesn't actually matter to most people?"

How is it going in circles? Everyone (except for you) recognizes some special value to human life, and everyone has their own moral structure for deciding when it is justified to take a life. That moral structure doesn't even come into play in most abortion arguments. What else is there to be confused about?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgwr9r36zIU

bing bing bing should be the new alt-right greeting codephrase
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foolm0r0n posted...

How is it going in circles? Everyone (except for you) recognizes some special value to human life, and everyone has their own moral structure for deciding when it is justified to take a life. That moral structure doesn't even come into play in most abortion arguments. What else is there to be confused about?

It's going in circles because why don't moral structures come into play? You seem to keep saying "they just don't".
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Holy shit I don't know how many more times I can say it: you disagree on when human life begins

One person says "it's obviously bad to kill a person" and the other says "it's obviously fine to kill an apple". They're not even arguing about the same thing. You have to agree that you're arguing about humans first before getting into human morality.
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Imagine a scenario where everyone on the planet agrees that fetuses are humans from the moment of conception.

Is abortion still moral, and if not, why not?
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THAT would be an argument about the morality of killing another person. I would say that's decisively immoral because it's killing a person without enough justification (self-defense etc).
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Who enforces that in a libertarian society (or is it enforced at all aside from via social shunning)?
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Decentralized courts which I mentioned already (basically an advanced form of social shunning)
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I guess if decentralized courts don't really have the ability to inflict punishments then that makes sense. I'd still really, really disagree from a bodily autonomy angle but at least this helps me understand where more people are coming from.
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https://slate.com/arts/2017/12/hallmarks-21-movie-christmas-countdown-reviewed.html

It's hilarious how much the official media absolutely loathes the Hallmark channel, especially when you keep in mind that the viewership is like 90% female. Movies so sexist that they are consumed exclusively by women!
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That channel is the only thing on TV more inexplicable than the super bowl
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foolm0r0n posted...

That channel is the only thing on TV more inexplicable than the super bowl

It's not inexplicable at all. It's basically the only "niche" TV channel left that has a perfect sense of who their customer is, and focuses entirely on giving them exactly what they want, rather than some bizarre sense of what they think they probably should want.

When literally every other channel on Earth was running away from specialization and trying to be a generic dumping ground of generally popular shows chasing the latest fads, these guys doubled-down on "These housewives want formulaic Christmas movies? LET'S MAKE 500 OF THEM AND PLAY THEM NON-STOP!"
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What I mean is I don't get why people want that so much (same with super bowl)
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foolm0r0n posted...

What I mean is I don't get why people want that so much (same with super bowl)

Turns out women want different things than men do.

(whoops hope I don't get fired for that)
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Thinking about this a bit, I'm officially adding the Hallmark Channel to my list of "real marketing genius" that formerly includes ICP and Olivia.
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Yeah tell your boss that brilliant marketing analysis. 6 figures for "women are different than men". And I thought MY job was easy...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/opinion/bitcoin-boom-technology-trust.html

Simple and actually correct, a rare combination with intro bitcoin articles
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foolm0r0n posted...

Yeah tell your boss that brilliant marketing analysis. 6 figures for "women are different than men". And I thought MY job was easy...

It's literally crimethink at most corporations these days, so yeah, it's pretty valuable to have someone that can express that idea without saying it directly.

It's funny how we've basically come full circle on this. Back in like the 50s, it was considered racist and sexist that the white men in corporate America didn't sell differently to women and minorities. The famous phrase coined by one of the first black advertising executives was "Black people are not light-skinned white people." It was thought of to be the height of ignorance that all groups wanted basically the same thing, and that if you didn't tailor your message to suit unique groups, you were basically a racist idiot.

Today it's now the exact opposite. To think that women and minorities are different is the social scandal. To suggest that you'd run a TV network for women different than the way you'd run one for men is thought of as ridiculous and sexist. You pretty much have to believe that women are just men without penises.
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https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/943157070035144704

Finally, Krugman is doing something useful for society! More of this, please! :D
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Hmm that's a new angle on the persecution complex that I didn't think about - it lets you convince yourself your extremely basic simplistic ideas are actually daring and fresh and valuable.

Looks like it doesn't work too well though since you would still never tell your boss that. Especially since you know that demographic-based marketing is outdated and far less effective than individually targeted advertising (or maybe saying THAT would be get you fired by your old school clients?)
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Looks like it doesn't work too well though since you would still never tell your boss that.

Sure I would, I'd just have to couch it in a lot of incomprehensible PC/business buzzword gibberish such that the meaning is almost, but not quite, entirely lost.

demographic-based marketing is outdated and far less effective than individually targeted advertising (or maybe saying THAT would be get you fired by your old school clients?)

Yeah obvs, but companies are terrified of targeted advertising (except the marketing department, who understands how powerful it really is) because society is filled with socialist/luddite style propaganda that has produced a bunch of consumers who are all "DURR I DONT WANT THE INTERNET KNOWING WHAT MY HOBBIES ARE SURELY THAT WILL HARM ME IN SOME WAY AND OFFERS NO BENEFITS"
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foolm0r0n posted...

it lets you convince yourself your extremely basic simplistic ideas are actually daring and fresh and valuable.

this whole topic series is this. it's basically muffin posting variations on the same few ideas over and over and over and over again, but with an attitude as if it's super interesting and/or witty and/or something that absolutely needs to be posted.
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i'd like targeted advertising if it actually worked.

not sure what i've done to deserve constantly getting linked to milo's page on my facebook.
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i'd like targeted advertising if it actually worked.

Dude targeted advertising was entirely responsible for re-kindling my interest in Zappa leading to our long topic series!
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i also get linked to zappa stuff on my facebook so i guess it works sometimes, but as long as i also get linked to milo frequently it's not exactly working the way it should.

this is like if a store sold milk that tastes like milk 50% of the time and piss the other 50% and you said "well at least it tastes like milk SOMETIMES! what a great store!" yeah, at least the store doesn't always suck but it still sucks pretty badly.
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What if before that store it sold Milk 5% of the time and piss 95% of the time

Because thats what advertising used to be like
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actually, let's go to my facebook and list the first three things that are advertised there for me now:

- a university in hamilton, ontario
- a museum in amsterdam
- smartwatches

i have interest in 0 of these things. wow, targeted advertising so great!

with all three things i can kinda see why i get them as recommendations. i used to study at a university (i guess that's the connection?), i live near amsterdam and the smartwatch ad was from a store in amsterdam that publishes an e-mail newsletter i'm subscribed to. the connections are way too vague to actually give me ads that are beneficial to me, though.
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SmartMuffin posted...

What if before that store it sold Milk 5% of the time and piss 95% of the time

Because thats what advertising used to be like

with targeted advertising the ratio of ads i get that are beneficial to me doesn't seem to be much higher than 5% (see above).
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Ill have to go on record that targeted advertising done well can actually be pretty cool.

Somehow it was learned I really like comic books and I started getting postcards sent to me about places where one day mini comic cons were occurring in the area with hella awesome comic deals.

I was really into that and went to a bunch of them. Dont know how i got on that mailing list but it was a bullseye targeting. Id much rather get ad mail with offers Im interested in like that. If ads are inevitable, ads about stuff Im interested in is win win for everyone.

Also some big brother potential stuff seems unavoiadable. Your phone knowing where you are is literally how gps works, so if you want one thats what you get.
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Targeted advertising on a place like Amazon is cool because they actually know the kind of things I buy, though I don't think it's ever actually led to me purchasing something I wouldn't have otherwise.

Targeted advertising on a place like Facebook is crap 100% of the time, just like normal ads would be.
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https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/943307352085843968

more #fakenews from our friends at the washington post
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https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155299736483042&id=130328003041

leftists have finally reached like step 2 of desert island economics

progress!
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Step 2 is communism?
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nah its the emergence of a basic barter-based economy
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Can't have skills and talents cuz those are capital and therefore evil
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Kenri posted...

Targeted advertising on a place like Amazon is cool because they actually know the kind of things I buy, though I don't think it's ever actually led to me purchasing something I wouldn't have otherwise.

Targeted advertising on a place like Facebook is crap 100% of the time, just like normal ads would be.

I wouldn't know about facebook, never use it myself. Does it not target well or do you just not want ads there?
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SmartMuffin posted...

https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/943307352085843968

more #fakenews from our friends at the washington post

Well, a friend of a friend said it so it must be true.
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Tomba42 posted...

Does it not target well or do you just not want ads there?

it doesn't target well, as i explained.
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Tomba42 posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/943307352085843968

more #fakenews from our friends at the washington post

Well, a friend of a friend said it so it must be true.

"a friend of a friend said it" is also the Washington Post's primary source on most things Trump-related
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Tomba42 posted...

I wouldn't know about facebook, never use it myself. Does it not target well or do you just not want ads there?

Both. I don't want ads anywhere but I especially don't want them when they're using information about me to advertise things I'd never want from sites I've never visited.
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I don't want ads anywhere but I especially don't want them when they're using information about me to advertise things I'd never want from sites I've never visited.

But most of the time it's the exact opposite of this. The vast majority of targeted advertising is for products you've shopped for on websites you've actually visited.
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SmartMuffin posted...

But most of the time it's the exact opposite of this. The vast majority of targeted advertising is for products you've shopped for on websites you've actually visited.

The most common ones I get (on Facebook) are for weird clothing sites I've never heard of, shitty online colleges, rehab programs (?), and computer chip wholesalers (???). Unless that's non-targeted and those are just the ads they run but that just raises further questions.

Like yeah I'll occasionally get an ad for Amazon or Target that's just, like, the last three products I looked at and decided not to buy. That's a little better but still ultimately useless to me at least.
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Those ones are probably demographically targeted. They're based on what they think they know about you based on your likes, interests, income level, etc. Still better than most traditional advertising, but not nearly as good as "the last three things you looked at on amazon but didn't buy"
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