Board 8 > Scarlet and Ed's really cool comics topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

I re-read Skurge's Last Stand per recommendations to read some Simonson Thor and some old school Marvel.

First of all, I always ALWAYS forget that the Stand itself is barely more than a couple pages. It's a grand moment, one the film got wrong. There's such an air of majesty and grandness to his sacrifice in the comic. You feel that he has become legend; in the film, no such thing unfortunately. He gets ganked pretty hard by Blanchett.

As for the rest of the issue, I have to say that this is some of the worst coloring and art in Simonson's run. I've always wished that Jack Kirby had taken Simonson's scripts and drawn them. It would have been the pitch-perfect creative team. As such, I think a lot of the potentially awe-inspiring moments fall a little flat. Seeing Thor encounter the beast that will kill him in Ragnarok should be a greater moment, but it requires the art to paint as this monstrous beast. Simonson gets the writing down pat, and yet the moment is hurt by very simple artwork. It's a shame, because this is an otherwise solid issue.

Ultimately, a 74 out of 100 issue. Goddamn that artwork.
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I agree - the coloring is so mostly bad in that era outside of the work of Kirby and Infantino
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Man, this isn't even that generation. This is nearly twenty years later! And it boggles my mind that somehow they stumbled further backwards. It's a strange time in comics.
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Oh geeze.

And yeah Marvel's "art" lately makes me pine for Liefeld to return.
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Champions is a title that is so totally torpedoed by its art. Mark Waid is trying to do something original over there, but man, it is SUCH a pain to even look at it. Legitimately it hurts my eyes. Some of the inked outlines are just horribly blocky.
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It may be Thanksgiving weekend, but you should still read Doomsday Clock if you haven't.
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I've seen some people on Twitter talking about Doomsday Clock getting poor reviews, but then when I tried to find them all I'm seeing is positivity. Not sure where they're coming from.
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Maybe they put more stock into fan reviews or discussion. The people I've seen who want to hate Doomsday Clock are determined to hate it.
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There are no major outlets reviewing it negatively. And at least at my shop, everyone who has read it has enjoyed it. Lots of positive talk about the Mime.
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Weekly Comic Thoughts (ranked from best to worst):

Doomsday Clock #1

I already mentioned most of my thoughts about why I thought this was great. The Mime is good. More Rorschach is good. I wasn't sure what to expect from this, but it surpassed my expectations so far.

Hellblazer #16

This continues to be my ultimate guilty pleasure book. Regardless of how mediocre it is, I still enjoy every issue. I just like John Constantine and his world. I will say that I found it odd how he was randomly in San Francisco with no real explanation after being in London for most of the run. I also read that Seeley is coming back in a few issues, so that should be good.

Detective Comics #969

I liked this issue. The Steph and Tim reunion was nice, albeit rushed, and the villain meet-up was fun, but I couldn't get past what I thought was not very good art. A lot of people looked off here, and I think the issue suffered because of it.

Suicide Squad #30

I continue to like this arc. It continues to be nothing special, but it's serviceable and I'm having a good time reading it.

Flash #35

This was the only book I'd consider to be bad from this week's pulls, and that's been a recurring theme for me. I generally read my comics in order of least interested to most interested, and this has been at the top of the pile for about 20 issues now. I still can't bring myself to drop it though.
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I re-read The Dark Knight Strikes Again today.

God, there's actually something to like there.

The big issue if DKR Part Deux is that Miller has about 20 issues worth of ideas and he's trying to cram them all into the same three issues. Unlike the relatively small stakes in the previous volume, DKR2 kicks the threat level to midnight, and that's okay. But at the same time, that threat requires more explanation. Miller has a hundred story beats he wants to hit and he glosses over all of them. Batman is becoming more agressive, but there's no time to explore it. Boom! Fascist. Dick Grayson's big return is an afterthought. The Green Lantern comes back in a big way, truly a sight to see. Two pages. Heroes are popping in here and there and none of them get their just due. It's idea after idea being stuffed onto the page. But the difference between Miller and Morrison when it comes to massive idea vomit is that Morrison knows that the plot is the key. World-building has to take a backseat. Miller puts everything in the backseat because he's got three issues to wrap up his story.

Why is Carrie Catgirl now? No explanation. Why does Batman want to work with Elongated Man? Unknown. What happened to Captain Marvel? No time to explain. Why is Brainiac working with anyone? We just can't fit it in. We've got to splash the page with a trillion concepts and gloss over every one.

There are some interesting things here, truly fun concepts to play with. It's too bad that they got muddled into a diarrhea of panels. Rating: 58/100
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I re-read The Long Halloween today.

Probably one of the best Batman stories of all time. Every aspect of it contributes to the mystery narrative, and at the same time it develops three characters very well. This is a Harvey Dent story above all other things, and I think the ending ultimately proves that Harvey Dent was always, in many ways, Two-Face from the start. At the same time, this is a tragic story. It's the story of the death of organized crime in Gotham City; I've always felt that the gangs of Gotham deserved more love. The Falcones, the Maronis, the Bertinellis, the Triad, the LoBoyz and Street Demonz... there is a lot of room to explore these aspects of Gotham. This story pretty succinctly tells the tale of transition, from mobster to super-villain, in the city.

At the same time, there are aspects of the art I don't love. I think the color palette saves the art and makes it work, but from time to time, some panels just don't jibe for me. I know it's sacrilege to hate on the Tim Sale artwork, but I'm a George Perez guy at heart. I like my comics to look like comics most of the time.

Anyways, I rate this a 92 out of 100.
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The Long Halloween and Dark Victory are probably my 1A and 1B in terms of my favourite comic stories I've ever read.

Of course my sample size is limited to Batman stories only, of which I've read almost all of the highly regarded ones (other than No Man's Land).
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Hopefully as I continue re-reading stuff (recommendations are always welcome by the way), you find something else to add to your list!
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I re-read Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? earlier today.

It's a great story. The fact that Moore went out of his way to make sure the story looked like a Silver Age Imaginary Story was great. There was a lot of freedom in this story, but Moore still tempered it. Despite all of the death, there was an innocent quality to how the story was told, and it worked well. One of my favorite moments is Bizarro's death, where he just crumples to the ground and utters, "Hello, Superman. Hello." It's strangely moving.

Kryptonite Man having such a major role in the story surprised me; I hardly recalled that he appeared. Probably the biggest thing I took away from it. As a possible ending to the Superman mythos, it's a little weak. As an imaginary story shutting the door on an era of Superman, it works much better. Ultimately, an 80 out of 100 story for me.
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Invincible (concluding soon), Savage Dragon, and 2000AD (and Judge Dredd Megazine) are some of the best longrunning creative runs around, I recommend 'em!
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Recent/Weekly Reads List

Maestros
Only at #2, but goddamn this is really fun. For those who don't know, it's about a kid who is like the 895th child of the Wizard king, but because his parents were divorced and he was on Earth he is not involved when someone kills the entire royal family. So, he's the new king. He may or may not be a really good wizard on his own. It's got dick jokes, talking swords, violence for days, and a political intrigue.

Realm
Only at #3, it's off to a solid start and has some interesting characters. It is basically "what if D&D merged with the real world in like 2012". There's clearly some mysterious buildup happening, but it's basically about a guy and his group of mercenaries on some sort of quest. Presumably the two stories will converge pretty soon. The pace is a little slow, but not the "god I wish something would happen" slow, just setting up character relationships and world building, stuff like that. There is always an orc fight or two. Also, the orcs aren't just big dumb brutes which is nice.

Bloodshot Salvation
Lemire is a great writer and his Bloodshot is really good. Through his last series he actually gave the fairly stagnant character Bloodshot and given him an actual arc, and this is a follow up. It is a little reliant on knowledge of Bloodshot Reborn, but I didn't finish it yet and it's pretty understandable to me.

Harbinger Renegade
Harbinger was an excellent book. This is a great follow up. The last two issues or so have been a little disjointed because they are clearly building up to Harbinger Wars 2 and it appears to be complicated. Nonetheless, it is clear that the stakes are high and only getting higher, and the setup issues of the last couple months make it clear that the payoff should be really satisfying.

The Family Trade
Steampunk world, underworld family, fledgling thief/assassin begins the Family Trade. It is solid, but needs a little bit of a punch. The art gives everyone super rosy cheeks which bugs me a little,

Black Panther
This issue was supposed to be about Klaw and he was only mentioned on like three pages! Besides that, I continue to like this book despite it being really slow compared to basically any other superhero book on the market. I think it takes a certain kind of person to enjoy it though, especially if you prefer your capes to come with punching.

Generation X
This book is interesting because it made me care about six characters I basically had no information about before reading it, and now I am into the high school drama of a bunch of hormonal superpowered kids. Plus Chamber is here, and Chamber is the best. The art has a rotating team so some issues are better than others. I think the last few issues have been better than the first ones, so it is improving over time.
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Chamber is one of those great second-string X-characters that deserves much more attention.
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I legit only bothered to start Gen X because Chamber was gonna be there. Caring about the rest (and I do now) is just bonus.
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I find that's how it is for a lot of B-list team books at Marvel. Usually there appears to be only one or two stars, but you find out eventually that there's great writing going on in this books since they have more freedom to create and explore fun characters rather than the standard staid and conservative superstars they can't mess with.
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Psycho_Kenshin posted...

Invincible (concluding soon)

Oh man it's ending? I might have to catch up. I stopped reading shortly past 100 right after the Robot arc ended. How's it been since then?
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It's not as good as it was in its prime. Honestly, this arc is the weakest of the series in a long time. Still, it's not bad.
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There was a pretty epic fight though.
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I re-read All-Star Superman today.

There were a lot of little things that really stuck out to me on this pass. Naturally, I could talk about how Morrison just coats all of these simple, eternal Superman stories with his characteristic infinite imagination, webbing each page with scientific discoveries and texturing the world with possibilities. It's wonderful and beautiful. But of particular note, this time, were all of the ties this story has to DC One Million. In fact, the story suggests that Superman (or Superman Prime by One Million logic), remains at the heart of the sun for millennia. If you look at the issue where Superman revisits his father's death, you'll note that Superman Prime arrives but doesn't reveal his identity. All the meanwhile, we're hurtling towards the death of Superman, but Morrison has already telegraphed that Superman will live for centuries to come. We also get appearances by Kal Kent, a One Million veteran, as well as Solaris. It's quite startling that so much of Morrison's One Million appears here, but I love it. It's another grand tale of optimism.

That's probably the best part of All-Star Superman; it's a tale of optimism in the face of certain death. Throughout the whole series, Superman is slowly setting in place his replacements and his legacy. He finds a worthy successor on Bizarro-World. He arm wrestles two successors on Lois' birthday. He sends two successors to protect the Phantom Zone. The city of Kandor is allowed to flourish outside of the bottle for once. And Leo Quintum, for all of his Morrison-like imagination, spins a few hints at the genetic legacy of the Superman genome. And let's not forget Superman's legacy coming to visit.

This is also a story of Lex Luthor. In fact, the gospel of Lex really paints such an evil person. Lex disguises his heartlessness as hatred for Superman, but when presented with a world without Superman, Lex fails to live up to his word. He can't be a Superman because he is barely a man. Superman is both super and a man, and that's why he works. He's the best of humanity wrapped in the powers of a god.

Ultimately, if this WAS the last Superman story, it would be satisfying as such. Rating, 95 out of 100.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

This is also a story of Lex Luthor. In fact, the gospel of Lex really paints such an evil person. Lex disguises his heartlessness as hatred for Superman, but when presented with a world without Superman, Lex fails to live up to his word. He can't be a Superman because he is barely a man

Yes this is honestly the part of Jurgens current run that i cant abide is his treatment of Luthor when such a better trestment very recently exists.
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Aw, Luthor was the one thing making me consider looking into Jurgen's run.

What recent Lex are you comparing it to, though? Johns has always written a ridiculously good Luthor and he's the most recent I can think of due to Forever Evil/Justice League shenanigans.
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Well, I would even argue that Geoff Johns almost missed the point of Lex. I do think there is a redemption arc out there for Lex, but Geoff didn't nail it at all. He had other plans in mind.
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I don't think Geoff Johns was going for a redemption arc. It felt to me like a "Lex pretends to be a good guy for a while" arc. It looked like some subterfuge was set up but then Darkseid War and Rebirth happened so there was never any payoff.

New 52 Justice League really was a series filled with Geoff Johns's discarded ideas and dropped plot points.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Psycho_Kenshin posted...

Invincible (concluding soon)

Oh man it's ending? I might have to catch up. I stopped reading shortly past 100 right after the Robot arc ended. How's it been since then?

I've been digging it quite a bit, good stuff! It's up to 142 at the moment, and it ends with 144, just a couple months away. I had been expecting it to go forever like Walking Dead back in the day, but it feels like a good run, plus Ryan Ottley the artist seems to have been kept really busy with this detailed terrific art.
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Well clearly that was the intent with Johns' Luthor face turn but Jurgens has basically just been "he's a Machiavellian Superman and that's ok"

Like Jurgens run is so much more frustrsting to me than any other.
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Luthor shouldn't be Superman. This is the problem. Luthor should be Luthor. He can face turn - in fact, I plotted a Luthor solo series once that was all about a Luthor face turn, and this makes no sense compared to that.
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I re-read Batman: Year One today.

It's every bit as good as I remember it. It's amazing how well it positions Long Halloween also; I forgot that a few of the major characters in that arc are subtly introduced here. Even though Miller had no plans for that, Loeb ran with it well. Year One is definitely the best Batman work by Miller. I know lots of people swear by DKR, and there are great beats there, but here Miller understands what makes Batman tick. And also, what separates Gordon from Batman. Gordon has foibles; Batman's only foible is being Batman.

The art is solid here, and the grimy, earthy color palette is perfect. It's definitely shades of what is to come in DKR and also Sin City. Probably no page better encapsulates the intimidating visage of Batman better when he crashes a dinner party in issue two. And I don't just mean in this comic; I mean in all of comics. It's one of my all-time favorites. It's too bad that Chris Nolan didn't crib that sequence for Batman Begins. Not that Batman Begins needed much more improvement, but this story is about as tightly written as humanly possible. The only thing it lacked for film translation was a memorable villain for traditional comic film fans, and that's the price you pay to add Scarecrow.

Anyways, a 94 out of 100 rating.
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Year One is great. The only Miller Batman I've read is that and the first two Dark Knight books, but I also think that it's the best of the three.

On another note, I hate these 5 Wednesday months. Annuals are fun, but it sucks when I only have 1 book coming out this week.
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DC's best 5 week month was in August of 2011. It had two comics come out on the final week.

The final issue of Flashpoint and the first issue of Justice League in the New52. It was quite a moment.
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The fact that they managed to line that up perfectly is amazing.
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Well, it's really not THAT impressive. They literally schedule when the books come out. It was just a nice bookend.
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I finally did read Doomsday clock.

I really don't like Rorschach. The situation is sort of interesting I guess, but the Watchmen mythos really doesn't interest me. It DOES seem like Johns has a really good idea of what he wants to accomplish but the faster they move off of referencing the events of the previous series the better.

Other stuff I read in my two week alottment of comics:

Nightwing 33: First not great issue but it did have a lot connective tissue to build to the end of the run. Gonna be sad to see it end, I really felt like Seeley was building some real mythos here.

Batman 35: No one cares about Talia Tom King. That's where you fucked up.

Sheena 3: This is actually starting to get pretty good. The nerdy guy is pretty good, and the build up of the modern twist on the classic character. Its not the best ever but its solid enough

Super Sons 10: So this series has been very slowly building to this issue and while this whole series still doesn't feel like it fits with the rest of the universe and more like endorsed fan fiction. THAT SAID, Jon is a pure joy and Damien is good. Also FORTRESS OF ATTITUDE YES. If Superman were better I would probably drop this but Jon is literally the only good thing about this otherwise horrendous direction for Superman so I will have my fanfiction thank you very much.

Wonder Woman 35 Jason background issue was pretty good after his abrupt heel turn - not sure what the point will be but it was solid in and of itself.

Aquaman 30 Holy Crap King Shark is a bad ass. The art is so amazing - so worth slowing the pace of the title a bit. Abnett is building himself an epic of the ages here. Vulko and Dolphin and Murk and Rath and Garth. Feels so good. This is literally the best many of these characters have ever been but especially Dolphin holy crap. This feels like something straight out of wheel of time right now.
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Also Scarlet, it looks like I missed the boat on both Damage and The Immortal Men.

Maybe keep me apprised of how they end up quality wise? I am always willing to give new books a chance like I am with Sideways which is apparently the third of the books theyre trying to launch this way
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Will do. I'm so freaking excited for Immortal Men. That's such a "me" series. Playing around with the DCU timeline is something I've been missing in my DCU titles.
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would a detailed readthrough of the Sandman be welcome in this topic
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Absolutely. I'm sure anything is better than me writing a few stray sentences after I re-read old stories.
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Eternity #2 came out today.

I legit didn't expect to care about this book but picked it up on a whim and I am into it. Divinity is a pretty cool character(s) as is, and it does a solid job of getting me to care about a sci-fi world when I usually can either take or leave them. I'm hoping it is tied into the universe at large, but if not I can enjoy it as a dope little space romp.
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I re-read Hush today.

It's not as good as I remember. The art was fantastic, of course. And that final issue is phenomenal. The mystery itself is great, but I was finding that some of the big beats were moving too fast. I think there's a weird pacing issue; it should be longer (despite it being relatively long by comic book standards).

Nothing will ever convince me that the Riddler is not the Batman's greatest nemesis. Ra's al Ghul is his archenemy, sure. The Joker is the most popular one. But Riddler is the most brilliant one, and the only one that can and has successfully transitioned to the right side of the law and still remained an antagonist. And furthermore, the Riddler is a brilliant mind because he is willing to work with someone else and let them take the credit. And, at the end of the day, all the Riddler wants is recognition - but he goes about it the wrong way, and he'll never find recognition in the way he desires.

Hush himself is honestly not all that special in this particular story; he gets much more interesting later on in Detective Comics. The story was more about "Who is Hush?" and not "Why should I care?" That's okay. This was a mystery, and that was a crucial piece. The fakeouts are still great in their own way, even if you know the endgame. Again, the only real criticism I have is that the Jason plot beat and the Scarecrow plot beat are just discarded so quickly. There was great stuff there. Hell, even the Two-Face beat is a bit lost in the shuffle.

Anyways, I rate it an 82 out of 100.
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I re-read Court of Owls today, also.

It's a fast read. I find it interesting how the art style gets more and more nightmarish as the story progresses; it works really well in that regard. Otherwise, it's just a solid Batman story. I can't say it's the best Batman story I've ever read, but it's definitely a good one. You can't fault Snyder for doing a great job in introducing what has become a key fixture of the Batman mythos over the last few years.

Rating: 79/100
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Court of Owls was the first trade I ever purchased and my first ever Batman story, so it holds a special place in my heart.
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I dont think I even understand Immortal Mens Concept because i thought it starred like Phantom Stranger and Vandal Savage but the cover has none of those types.

Damage too I have no idea where they plucked that concept from.
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Immortal Men also has Tom Strong supposedly!
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Weekly Comic Thoughts:

Batman Annual #2

Damn, this hit me right in the feels. Fantastic issue by King. Some great call-backs to some of the Bruce/Selina interactions from King's run, and that last page was a real tearjerker. I also really liked Alfred in this issue. Has Batman ever gotten a "happy ending" like this?
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I think the real question is how is this peace shattered
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I re-read Death of the Family today.

I can't ever truly explain how such a great story irritates me so. It's the Roman Reigns factor. Joker immediately comes in and jobs out everyone every single time. It's infuriating. Two-Face, Penguin, Riddler... everyone must always look stupider and weaker than the Joker. And whenever the Joker isn't around, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's the Joker?"

I do like that this story makes Joker such a pathetic soul. It encapsulates what I do enjoy about the Joker. That he's obsessed with a man who doesn't care for him, and he can't do anything about him. He'll never get the right type of attention. So when Batman tries to bring him down to Earth, to speak to him like he speaks to any other villain, Joker can't handle it. He can't let his fantasy be shattered. Joker can't be other people.

I've never really liked the ending that much. I get that it's supposed to be an "I gotcha, Bats!" moment for the Joker, but it assumes a lot about the Bat-Family. Let's be honest - they are all, at hearts, sycophants. If Batman cut off their hands, they'd thank him for it so long as he explained he was doing what was best for them. The drama at the end just doesn't ring true - especially for Dick Grayson. I just can't believe he would fuck off and leave Bruce Wayne hanging in this day and age.

Anyways, I rate this story a 73 out of 100.
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