Current Events > Why did the US get involved in Vietnam?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So the French got kicked out then the North and the South had a bit of a fight. Then they agreed they'd have an election for who would rule the whole country.

The South didn't like how the election was turning out so decided to say "fuck you" to the North and stop talking to them.

So at this point legally and morally the North are in the right in my opinion.

So what happened for the USA to get involved with the South and join them? Also how did it end up with it being the USA vs the North and not the South and the US vs the North?
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cold war, communism, dominoes. etc.
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They were trying to prevent a Communist takeover.
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Someone forgot that the russians and chinese also played a big part in vietnam.
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To spread capitalism?
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So the Communist are just as much to blame as the Capitalists ?
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It's just legally the South was at fault for pulling out of the election. What was the justification at the time for the US getting involved with the side that was in the wrong?

I know the blanket answer is "communism" but I want more than that. What exactly was the justification?
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PrettyBoyFloyd posted...

So the Communist are just as much to blame as the Capitalists ?

I don't know man. The US could have just not got involved at all.
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Izual_Reborn posted...

I know the blanket answer is "communism" but I want more than that. What exactly was the justification?

That was the justification. They said they had a moral obligation to stop to spread of communism, and went to war over it.

It's a shame, because they never would have been communists in the first place if the US had supported their independence from France in the first place.
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Izual_Reborn posted...

It's just legally the South was at fault for pulling out of the election. What was the justification at the time for the US getting involved with the side that was in the wrong?

I know the blanket answer is "communism" but I want more than that. What exactly was the justification?

Gulf of Tonkin incident. Basically a false flag on a US ship.
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cuz the north are dirty people
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Watch the Ken Burns Vietnam documentary. It is very informative and very good. It's up on the PBS website.
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BlackHorse6969 posted...

cuz the north are dirty people

This. They really treated the South like absolute crap and everyone lived in hardship. My dad told me stories and it was why he escaped the country to sell refuge at such a young age.
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You trying to tell me the country that dropped agent orange and caused the My Lai massacre cared about innocent people?
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France never actually left - they were training South Vietnamese soldiers, and asked for America's help.

As soon as we showed up, they bailed.
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darkjedilink posted...

France never actually left - they were training South Vietnamese soldiers, and asked for America's help.

As soon as we showed up, they bailed.

That seems to go against everything else I've read on the matter. Where are you getting your facts from?
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Izual_Reborn posted...

darkjedilink posted...

France never actually left - they were training South Vietnamese soldiers, and asked for America's help.

As soon as we showed up, they bailed.

That seems to go against everything else I've read on the matter. Where are you getting your facts from?

The research paper I did on the runup to Vietnam, and my military training.
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Cold War.

The communist part was being aided by the Russians (who were a rival of the US at the time). To prevent Russia from gaining more allies, the USA wanted to prove that communism shouldn't be tolerated and spread propaganda to make the worldwide view of them more favorable and prevent even more potential enemies from popping as a result.
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to wave their dick at the soviets
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it's a proxy war between east and west bloc.
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military industrial complex
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Ninja-Yatsu posted...

Cold War.

billcom6 posted...

military industrial complex

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Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

The nation felt like 58k men lost were too much when people back home like Donald Trump were dodging the draft. The public support was too low so the military pulled out and South Vietnam stopped being propped up by the US government and fell. It was always a weak war to begin with. US quickly soured on Iraq and the vast majority of the nation felt it was justified at the time. Vietnam never had that level of support to begin with so imagine how much more it would be at the time.
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Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

Home advantage + Traps.
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Ego.
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Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

Heart wasnt in it.
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Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

Liberals in America actively undermined the military for political purposes. This, combined with the fact that South Vietnam basically wanted America to fight the war for them, while complaining about our presence, meant that our troops wanted no part in the fighting.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Someone forgot that the russians and chinese also played a big part in vietnam.

If it weren't for a fear of Russian retaliation, America would've steamrolled the NVA and SE Asia would've all been like South Korea, probably...
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PrettyBoyFloyd posted...

So the Communist are just as much to blame as the Capitalists ?

No
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So Stanley Kubrick could give us a damn good movie.
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Izual_Reborn posted...

What was the justification at the time for the US

are you under the impression US needs justification to start war or invade someone?
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it was to try to prevent yet another nation from falling to communism

ModLogic posted...

Izual_Reborn posted...

What was the justification at the time for the US

are you under the impression US needs justification to start war or invade someone?

Why not
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It was more of a war between the US and Russia then it was about Vietnam , nether side (US or Russia) cared about the Vietnamese they wanted to fight each other without actually officially going to war with each other because then both countries wouldn't have been able to pull out until the other admitted defeat , they used Vietnam as a wager of land .nothing more than a casino chip
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

ModLogic posted...

Izual_Reborn posted...

What was the justification at the time for the US

are you under the impression US needs justification to start war or invade someone?

Why not

Because every war weve been in after Korea has had extremely dubious casus belli. Vietnam had a false flag, desert storm saddam had actual justification (Kuwaiti slant drilling), and the Iraq War had no nukes. Our escapades into Afghanistan were valid though.
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

PrettyBoyFloyd posted...

So the Communist are just as much to blame as the Capitalists ?

No

Depends on how you look at it.

I feel that it was a "us vs them" like thing.

Really don't care if the south got butchered or taken prisoner by the Communists.

I was like 3 when we pulled out and don't know anyone currently living there.
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Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

What they really wanted was for the South Vietnamese to stand on their own, but the SV government was made up of all the colonialist appeasers from the French era who were more concerned with getting as much power and wealth from their new occupiers as possible. There were multiple coups in the SV government during the war, while the NVA put up a united front. The Americans were also kinda clueless about how to fight against guerilla warfare in the jungle, bombing the shit out of the enemy doesn't work very well when most of what they were hitting was just trees and the enemy were mostly hiding underground. Poorly trained American conscripts routinely blundered straight into traps and ambushes, and when they did win fights against the NVA they just let them disappear into the jungle again and regroup. It was very difficult to track the NVA's movements through the jungle, while they rarely had any trouble whatsoever in finding the Americans.

Finally, Viet Nam had a long history of occupation by foreign powers, and a lot of people were sick of it and were determined to fight to take back control of their country by whatever means necessary, while it was just a big political shit show for the Americans who kept playing the hokey-pokey with the war.
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josifrees posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

ModLogic posted...

Izual_Reborn posted...

What was the justification at the time for the US

are you under the impression US needs justification to start war or invade someone?

Why not

Because every war weve been in after Korea has had extremely dubious casus belli. Vietnam had a false flag, desert storm saddam had actual justification (Kuwaiti slant drilling), and the Iraq War had no nukes. Our escapades into Afghanistan were valid though.

Afghanistan wasn't valid either
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

josifrees posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

ModLogic posted...

Izual_Reborn posted...

What was the justification at the time for the US

are you under the impression US needs justification to start war or invade someone?

Why not

Because every war weve been in after Korea has had extremely dubious casus belli. Vietnam had a false flag, desert storm saddam had actual justification (Kuwaiti slant drilling), and the Iraq War had no nukes. Our escapades into Afghanistan were valid though.

Afghanistan wasn't valid either

True. Weren't majority of hijackers from Saudia Arabia?
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synth_real posted...

Words0fJokeAc posted...

And how did they lose?

What they really wanted was for the South Vietnamese to stand on their own, but the SV government was made up of all the colonialist appeasers from the French era who were more concerned with getting as much power and wealth from their new occupiers as possible. There were multiple coups in the SV government during the war, while the NVA put up a united front. The Americans were also kinda clueless about how to fight against guerilla warfare in the jungle, bombing the shit out of the enemy doesn't work very well when most of what they were hitting was just trees and the enemy were mostly hiding underground. Poorly trained American conscripts routinely blundered straight into traps and ambushes, and when they did win fights against the NVA they just let them disappear into the jungle again and regroup. It was very difficult to track the NVA's movements through the jungle, while they rarely had any trouble whatsoever in finding the Americans.

Finally, Viet Nam had a long history of occupation by foreign powers, and a lot of people were sick of it and were determined to fight to take back control of their country by whatever means necessary, while it was just a big political shit show for the Americans who kept playing the hokey-pokey with the war.

Excellent post. Essentially boiled down to one side fighting tooth and nail for their countries existence versus one of mercenaries crotch posturing over political ideology.

Boy do I have an 18-hour documentary for you
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