Board 8 > The day after #metoo in Israel

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sadly I don't have a English source but there is a (terrible) Google Translate
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=iw&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=iw&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.walla.co.il%2Fitem%2F3105547&edit-text=&act=url
(Diaper House is amazing translation)

Anyway-
A kingergarten hired a male teacher (whatever it's called) instead of the usual female
Parents got angry from the get go, why would a man change a diaper of my daugther?
Other parents were afraid that that male teacher would rape/abuse their children

And that was from the get go, he didn't even have a chance..so he got fired because he is male

So congratulations #metoo supports! you got what you wanted! there is now a stigma (stronger than ever) that men are dangerous and if god forbid they need to change a diaper for a young child that must mean they are pedophile
This is what YOU wanted, a gender stigma
Soon, people will be afraid to hire a male babysitter too and who knows what more
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itt raising awareness about sexual assault is terrible because one dude didn't get a job.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

itt raising awareness about sexual assault is terrible because one dude didn't get a job.

You see this as "raising awareness" but the real, hidden motive was to demonize men
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citation needed
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I don't feel particularly demonized. Then again, I've never sexually assaulted someone. I have told women that The Big Bang Theory is a terrible show. Maybe if this hashtag was about The Big Bang Theory, I would feel more demonized.
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also, even if that was the motive it still raises awareness about sexual assault. that by itself is a great thing.
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Metool
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and also, from what i understood alysso milano created the movement for all sexual assault victims - she didn't specify that it was exclusively for women. just because it turns out that it's mostly women who are the victims of sexual assault doesn't mean the intent of the movement was to "demonize men."
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men are only demonized because men regularly engage in behavior that should be demonized, and the vast majority of those that do not engage in the behavior still constantly excuse it, belittle and demonize women who come forward, etc. the point of the #metoo tag is to promote solidarity amongst women who are victims, and raise awareness amongst men about the unacceptable behavior they are engaging and hopefully get men to change their ways and to stop excusing other men who do so while creating an environment where women are afraid to come forward. if the #metoo hashtag succeeds at its goal, nobody would be getting fired because men are rapey because nobody would think that men are rapey.

it sucks this guy got fired, but one of the biggest issues with the teaching profession that you have to deal with is parents making angry/stupid demands and the administration capitulating to them.
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wow that's an incredibly stupid thought process

Nanis23 posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

itt raising awareness about sexual assault is terrible because one dude didn't get a job.

You see this as "raising awareness" but the real, hidden motive was to demonize men

no
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Sounds like Nanis is just using #metoo for his hidden motive of demonizing women.
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True story, I've been actually possessed by a demon since #metoo.

But he's pretty cool, he only demands a ritual sacrifice once a year (twice on leap years).
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't feel particularly demonized. Then again, I've never sexually assaulted someone

Neither did I
So why do I need to read posts from beta males stating how "we as men need to look upon ourselves and question our actions"
No, fuck you, you look upon yourself, I got nothing to do with it
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(me , ALpha male badass): stop it Girls , DOn't be m-mean to Men!

Nanis23 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't feel particularly demonized. Then again, I've never sexually assaulted someone

Neither did I
So why do I need to read posts from beta males stating how "we as men need to look upon ourselves and question our actions"
No, fuck you, you look upon yourself, I got nothing to do with it

ITT #notallmen
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Nanis23 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't feel particularly demonized. Then again, I've never sexually assaulted someone

Neither did I
So why do I need to read posts from beta males stating how "we as men need to look upon ourselves and question our actions"
No, fuck you, you look upon yourself, I got nothing to do with it

So you're mad because you don't understand the point of #metoo, got it.
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these two events aren't tied to each other

there can be two separate problems that both need to be fixed. not sure why this is so hard.
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this is like saying

"the day after #notallmen, a woman is raped. thanks #notallmen hashtaggers! this is what you wanted"
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Nanis23 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't feel particularly demonized. Then again, I've never sexually assaulted someone

Neither did I
So why do I need to read posts from beta males stating how "we as men need to look upon ourselves and question our actions"
No, fuck you, you look upon yourself, I got nothing to do with it

Well, if you're like me, when you look upon yourself and realize that you haven't sexually assaulted someone, you should feel pretty okay about the whole situation in regards to yourself. I would say that the biggest problem in the world right now is ego. Sometimes, something isn't about you.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

itt raising awareness about sexual assault is terrible because one dude didn't get a job.

In this country. It is better than 10,000 go free than any innocent ever serve a day in jail....

So yes, this is beyond horrible obviously.

For the record, MWC just compared the possibility of 10,000 women being raped to the possibility of one innocent person being jailed and said, "yeah fuck utilitarianism".
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You know, let's leave what I think aside, I am not good at expressing myself so whatever

What do you think of the article though?
Do you think something like that is OK?
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Are any of the rapist pedophile men responsible for making people afraid of men or is this entirely the fault of women and facebook posts?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

For the record, MWC just compared the possibility of 10,000 women being raped to the possibility of one innocent person being jailed and said, "yeah fuck utilitarianism".

Or murdered.... or whatever.

It's a basic tenant of America.

It's why we have "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt"

We have PLENTY of people who went to court who 100% were guilty of crimes, and didn't serve a day in jail because it's really hard to convict someone, as it should be. And the reason for that is again, it is worse for an innocent man to serve a day than 10,000 go free.

Nanis23 posted...

Do you think something like that is OK?

No

Wow that was hard
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"That's bullshit, there's nothing wrong with a male kindergarten teacher" <-- Reaction of a normal person

"See! Women are conspiring together to demonize men and take all our jobs!" <-- Crazy person vulnerable to textbook sexist leaps in judgment, imagining / viewing women as some sort of evil anti-man entity.
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SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

For the record, MWC just compared the possibility of 10,000 women being raped to the possibility of one innocent person being jailed and said, "yeah fuck utilitarianism".

Or murdered.... or whatever.

It's a basic tenant of America.

It's why we have "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt"

We have PLENTY of people who went to court who 100% were guilty of crimes, and didn't serve a day in jail because it's really hard to convict someone, as it should be. And the reason for that is again, it is worse for an innocent man to serve a day than 10,000 go free.

That's a false equivalency. They are both "bad". Quantitatively, 10,000 rapes is worse than 1 false imprisonment. But to compare two issues which are only on the surface relevant to one another suggests a lack of grasp when it comes to the issues. The problem with false imprisonment in your scenario lies in the failure of law enforcement or the overreach of a prosecutor's office. The problem with rape lies with rapists. The problem with false imprisonment for rape doesn't lie with false accusations; it lies with police departments and prosecutors failing to adequately do their jobs.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

For the record, MWC just compared the possibility of 10,000 women being raped to the possibility of one innocent person being jailed and said, "yeah fuck utilitarianism".

Or murdered.... or whatever.

It's a basic tenant of America.

It's why we have "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt"

We have PLENTY of people who went to court who 100% were guilty of crimes, and didn't serve a day in jail because it's really hard to convict someone, as it should be. And the reason for that is again, it is worse for an innocent man to serve a day than 10,000 go free.

That's a false equivalency. They are both "bad". Quantitatively, 10,000 rapes is worse than 1 false imprisonment. But to compare two issues which are only on the surface relevant to one another suggests a lack of grasp when it comes to the issues. The problem with false imprisonment in your scenario lies in the failure of law enforcement or the overreach of a prosecutor's office. The problem with rape lies with rapists. The problem with false imprisonment for rape doesn't lie with false accusations; it lies with police departments and prosecutors failing to adequately do their jobs.

NOTHING is worse than false improsonment. Welcome to America commie...

The article doesn't mention anything about #metoo.

People have always had shitty attitudes about men pursuing careers that are traditionally seen as "women's work", and doubly so where children are involved. It used to be worse; in the past they wouldn't have even hired him to begin with.

You're just seizing on an unrelated event to further your own agenda.
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4748399/woman-is-raped-in-broad-daylight-on-pavement-as-onlookers-do-nothing-to-stop-sex-beast/

This also happened the day after #metoo

The Facebook posts were so annoying that men went out and raped a bunch of women in retaliation! The movement totally backfired. Society now support rape because of your Facebook posts. Hope you are happy.
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SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

NOTHING is worse than false improsonment. Welcome to America commie...

What if they are muslim
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foolm0r0n posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

NOTHING is worse than false improsonment. Welcome to America commie...

What if they are muslim

Are the legal?

If so, I agree with Benjamin Franklin.

You do not UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE punish the innocent citizen No matter what the alternative, no matter who gets hurt etc, you do not punish someone who might not be guilty. EVER!

foolm0r0n posted...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4748399/woman-is-raped-in-broad-daylight-on-pavement-as-onlookers-do-nothing-to-stop-sex-beast/

This also happened the day after #metoo

The Facebook posts were so annoying that men went out and raped a bunch of women in retaliation! The movement totally backfired. Society now support rape because of your Facebook posts. Hope you are happy.

I feel terrible for laughing at "sex beast"
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SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

NOTHING is worse than false improsonment. Welcome to America commie...

1) You spelled imprisonment wrong.

2) That's not a quantitative statement. Talk to me in facts not emotions.

3) I'm not a Communist and I will in fact not only take offense to statements like that but also refuse to engage you on a person-to-person respectful level if you refuse to do the same. It's the simplest thing in the world. I was polite and responded to your comments with measured discussion. Learn to reciprocate as an adult please.

4) Morally, there are a few things that trump false imprisonment from different philosophical schools of thought. Rape and murder. Those are the top two. Torture is up there as well. Utilitarians would tell you that murder is the ultimate no-no, but even then there are levels of murder.

5) America has a track record of false imprisonment anyways. It's endemic to a system that puts a premium on the competitive nature of the court system now. Because lawyers aren't all equally paid, success factors in to their behavior. If you want a bigger paycheck, you need to win bigger cases. If you need to win, you are going to play as fast and loose with the law as possible. Prosecutors don't always play to uphold justice and defense attorneys don't always want to diligently represent their client in order to fulfill the collective bargain society makes in regards to its court system.

6) If you take the above premise as true, false imprisonment is a consistent upshot of what will come out of the system. Note that the system has nothing to do with gender or race or sexual orientation. It's about greed. It's about money. It's about fallible humans being fallible.

7) Tl;dr even if you take the premise that false imprisonment is the worse case scenario for anyone ever as true, you still have to source what causes false imprisonment and work your way from there.

I would be happy to continue a measured discussion but at this time I do not feel that beyond this response I will continue unless you retract your "Commie" moniker you so blithely attached to me.
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SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

Are the legal?

Can you ever really be legal as a muslim?
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MWC really knows how to turn any political discussion into an absolute dumpster fire, huh
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foolish american compare powerful soviet gulag to pitiful american jail
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nanis i wanna say you suck at communicating but i think the real problem isn't your inability to communicate, it's that your message sucks

and then you're also not very good at talking about your bad message

over and over and over
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foolm0r0n posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

Are the legal?

Can you ever really be legal as a muslim?

Uh. Yes...

Were you born here as a United States citizen?

scarletspeed7 posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

NOTHING is worse than false improsonment. Welcome to America commie...

1) You spelled imprisonment wrong.

2) That's not a quantitative statement. Talk to me in facts not emotions.

3) I'm not a Communist and I will in fact not only take offense to statements like that but also refuse to engage you on a person-to-person respectful level if you refuse to do the same. It's the simplest thing in the world. I was polite and responded to your comments with measured discussion. Learn to reciprocate as an adult please.

4) Morally, there are a few things that trump false imprisonment from different philosophical schools of thought. Rape and murder. Those are the top two. Torture is up there as well. Utilitarians would tell you that murder is the ultimate no-no, but even then there are levels of murder.

5) America has a track record of false imprisonment anyways. It's endemic to a system that puts a premium on the competitive nature of the court system now. Because lawyers aren't all equally paid, success factors in to their behavior. If you want a bigger paycheck, you need to win bigger cases. If you need to win, you are going to play as fast and loose with the law as possible. Prosecutors don't always play to uphold justice and defense attorneys don't always want to diligently represent their client in order to fulfill the collective bargain society makes in regards to its court system.

6) If you take the above premise as true, false imprisonment is a consistent upshot of what will come out of the system. Note that the system has nothing to do with gender or race or sexual orientation. It's about greed. It's about money. It's about fallible humans being fallible.

7) Tl;dr even if you take the premise that false imprisonment is the worse case scenario for anyone ever as true, you still have to source what causes false imprisonment and work your way from there.

I would be happy to continue a measured discussion but at this time I do not feel that beyond this response I will continue unless you retract your "Commie" moniker you so blithely attached to me.

I apologize. I shouldn't have called you a communist. You have not shown in the past the same communist sympathizing tendencies as many on this board. That is (unfortunately) my go to when it comes to to Anti Americans here, and I should make sure it is a measured shot. You didn't deserve that.

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

It's a basic tenant of America.

It's why we have "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt"

for the record, this isn't even the correct standard

the State needs "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," but "[the] trier of fact is not required to disregard inferences which flow normally from the evidence before it, nor must the trier of fact search out all possible explanations consistent with innocence, and raise those explanations to a level of reasonable doubt." In re Jonathon C.B., 2011 IL 107750, 60.

the trier of fact (jury or judge) also has the responsibility to weigh the evidence and make credibility calls. so in a he-said, she-said situation, where the physical evidence is inconclusive, the jury is entitled to decide who to believe -- even if it's possible the State's witness is a smooth liar and the defense's witness is telling the truth
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Gatarix posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

It's a basic tenant of America.

It's why we have "innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable shadow of a doubt"

for the record, this isn't even the correct standard

the State needs "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," but "[the] trier of fact is not required to disregard inferences which flow normally from the evidence before it, nor must the trier of fact search out all possible explanations consistent with innocence, and raise those explanations to a level of reasonable doubt." In re Jonathon C.B., 2011 IL 107750, 60.

the trier of fact (jury or judge) also has the responsibility to weigh the evidence and make credibility calls. so in a he-said, she-said situation, where the physical evidence is inconclusive, the jury is entitled to decide who to believe -- even if it's possible the State's witness is a smooth liar and the defense's witness is telling the truth

Doesn't change the point though which was better for any ammount of people to get away with everything than to ever punish an innocent.

that's more of a philosophical question - you're entitled to believe whatever you want

personally, I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. definitely not a 1:1 trade. but as the numbers get bigger, the proposition becomes more attractive. I mean, I'd be willing to personally spend a day in jail in exchange for 10,000 guilty people being convicted who otherwise would go free.
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Gatarix posted...

that's more of a philosophical question - you're entitled to believe whatever you want

personally, I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. definitely not a 1:1 trade. but as the numbers get bigger, the proposition becomes more attractive. I mean, I'd be willing to personally spend a day in jail in exchange for 10,000 guilty people being convicted who otherwise would go free.

I would too. (Realistically I'd probably do a day for like 50...) But that's volunteering, not therefore a punishment anymore. If you were innocent and put in there agianst your will that's a much more severe problem.

Man this is such a basic argument that's been gone over a million times, educate yourselves: https://www.facebook.com/pg/TrolleyProblemMemes/posts
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ok, so MWC thinks one man being wrongly convicted is worse than 10000 women being raped and the rapists not being convicted.

admins, can this guy be banned (for the gazillionth time) please?
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These posts are so sad and predictable. Good Lord.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

ok, so MWC thinks one man being wrongly convicted is worse than 10000 women being raped and the rapists not being convicted.

admins, can this guy be banned (for the gazillionth time) please?

Now you DO deserve it.

Welcome to America commie.

We don't punish the innocent, no matter the cost.

The number could literally be 375 million and I wouldn't care. It is better that the entire country of guilty people go free than for any innocent man to ever be punished for a crime he didn't commit.

What about an innocent woman
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