Current Events > "Hard work" is an "ideology"

(+) Yeah! (+)

What a time to be alive
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I mean take a look around CE - we're living in a time where people have no skills, no education, no motivation and think they should be handed nice things and a good standard of living simply for existing.
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The demonization of hard work is classical Leftist thinking. Only mommy government can save you and rectify these inequalities.
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Nobody is saying that.

What's an ideology is that "hard work ALONE leads to success." Which is complete nonsense.
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The Admiral posted...

The demonization of hard work is classical Leftist thinking. Only mommy government can save you and rectify these inequalities.

Tell that to the anarchists.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Nobody is saying that.

What's an ideology is that "hard work ALONE leads to success." Which is complete nonsense.

Not true. A Penn State professor says that meritocracy is white supremacy.
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darkjedilink posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Nobody is saying that.

What's an ideology is that "hard work ALONE leads to success." Which is complete nonsense.

Not true. A Penn State professor says that meritocracy is white supremacy.

That's not what that article said
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When no more people have jobs, who will be the one paying for the welfare?
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

darkjedilink posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Nobody is saying that.

What's an ideology is that "hard work ALONE leads to success." Which is complete nonsense.

Not true. A Penn State professor says that meritocracy is white supremacy.

That's not what that article said

It's literally what it said.

Oh, and midterms are white supremacy, too.
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It kinda is. I hate the notion of hard work makes you better. Fuck that, all of human advancement has been about lessening the work we do.
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lynch the rich people and pay for healthcare
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C_Pain posted...

It kinda is. I hate the notion of hard work makes you better. Fuck that, all of human advancement has been about lessening the work we do.

And it all required hard work to get there.

You think getting to the moon was easy? You think curing cancer is easy? Preventing war? Inventing literally everything we take advantage of?

Good living REQUIRES hard work, and only morons think otherwise.
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C_Pain posted...

It kinda is. I hate the notion of hard work makes you better. Fuck that, all of human advancement has been about lessening the work we do.

The culture has changed. Labor saving was supposed to take away the drudgery of survival so as to focus on things we enjoy. ie: I now have the time to become a great painter. I now have the time to read everything I've every wanted. I now have the time to learn new skills for my own enjoyment.

We don't do that as much anymore, often looking at people strangely if they do their best at anything, or like a challenge. Worse, since we haven't gotten rid of work yet, it's infectedin to those areas. Why take a hard career. Why do my job to the best of my abilities. Why should I work harder for more reward. Why learn to do what I can pay someone to do.
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Not to sound racist or anything, but Jews and Asians tend to have a very "bootstrap" mentality and they're some of the higher income class out of the minority groups. Hardwork is good, but it's not good when the person benefits off someone else's hardwork and does nothing with it.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

Literally fake news, as are most of the 'other factors.'

This is the kind of bullshit propaganda Karl Marx started with.
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Godnorgosh posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

Literally fake news, as are most of the 'other factors.'

This is the kind of bullshit propaganda Karl Marx started with.

Welp, now that darkjedilink says so, I guess I've decided that race, class, etc. suddenly don't matter and don't affect people's lives.

It doesn't matter what your skin color is - if you choose to live in squalor and not improve your standing, that's what you get.

Most of the people bitching about this kind of stuff are people just waiting for a handout. That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.
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darkjedilink posted...

It doesn't matter what your skin color is - if you choose to live in squalor and not improve your standing, that's what you get.

Most of the people bitching about this kind of stuff are people just waiting for a handout. That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

lmfao because there are no employers out there with prejudice against minorities
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Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

How dumb do you think working class people are that they would think ONLY hard work matters? Its a low bar you set for them, its classist. The reason working class people get excited about the work hard mantra is not because they are being placated, but because they realize class mobility in the US is a thing and working hard and making sacrifices are key components of this mobility
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darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?
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Kazi1212 posted...

they realize class mobility in the US is a thing

It isn't.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/america-social-mobility-parents-income/399311/
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darkjedilink posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

Literally fake news, as are most of the 'other factors.'

This is the kind of bullshit propaganda Karl Marx started with.

Welp, now that darkjedilink says so, I guess I've decided that race, class, etc. suddenly don't matter and don't affect people's lives.

It doesn't matter what your skin color is - if you choose to live in squalor and not improve your standing, that's what you get.

Most of the people bitching about this kind of stuff are people just waiting for a handout. That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Source? Let's see some stats that the majority do.

Everything else you said is stupid but this is the only claim you made that can be backed up so let's see it.
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Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.
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darkjedilink posted...

Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.

Alright now let's see those sources I asked for.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.

Alright now let's see those sources I asked for.

When I'm not on a cellphone at work, sure, Mr. 'It's stupid to think people choosing squalor shouldn't get rich!'
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Godnorgosh posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

How dumb do you think working class people are that they would think ONLY hard work matters? Its a low bar you set for them, its classist. The reason working class people get excited about the work hard mantra is not because they are being placated, but because they realize class mobility in the US is a thing and working hard and making sacrifices are key components of this mobility

I'm working class, so obviously I wouldn't say working-class people are dumb. But I would be remiss not to acknowledge that many people did "fall" for "trickle-down" economics, and we're now seeing the consequences of that theory: stagnating and declining wages, even though we're working more now than in the past.

Class mobility may not be completely gone yet, but it's vanishing. The middle class is shrinking. College degrees don't guarantee decent jobs, even for "good" majors. Things weren't like this a few decades ago.

The middle class is shrinking because there are more rich people by percentage than ever before.

It's shrinking as a result of upward mobility.
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The Admiral posted...

The demonization of hard work is classical Leftist thinking. Only mommy government can save you and rectify these inequalities.

this is bullshit
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I think the problem is we define success as being filthy rich, not earning a comfortable middle class lifestyle. My house is paid for. I'm out of debt. I have more games than I can play. I'm successful enough (especially since most people thought I'd be on disability all my life). Others seem to see anyone with more than them, or earning at all with less effort as some personal attack or form of oppression and are never really happy.
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darkjedilink posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.

Alright now let's see those sources I asked for.

When I'm not on a cellphone at work, sure, Mr. 'It's stupid to think people choosing squalor shouldn't get rich!'

"I don't have one"

Yes, we know.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.

Alright now let's see those sources I asked for.

When I'm not on a cellphone at work, sure, Mr. 'It's stupid to think people choosing squalor shouldn't get rich!'

"I don't have one"

Yes, we know.

Literally thinks people should get rich with no effort.
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hard work makes you a better person, this is factual. I know very few here even know what hard work is and what makes it valuable. They just want free money, no one wants to EARN anything and put their heart and soul into their work anymore. Its pathetic.
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darkjedilink posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

That's why black people who get rich suddenly become conservative.

Now what's your thought on NFL players who are protesting?

That before Trump's comments, they were based on lies.

And Michael Bennett is a lying racist.

Alright now let's see those sources I asked for.

When I'm not on a cellphone at work, sure, Mr. 'It's stupid to think people choosing squalor shouldn't get rich!'

"I don't have one"

Yes, we know.

Literally thinks people should get rich with no effort.

lol please point out any post I've ever made that even comes close to insinuating that.

If you want to discredit yourself further be my guest lol.
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lightwarrior78 posted...

I think the problem is we define success as being filthy rich, not earning a comfortable middle class lifestyle. My house is paid for. I'm out of debt. I have more games than I can play. I'm successful enough (especially since most people thought I'd be on disability all my life). Others seem to see anyone with more than them, or earning at all with less effort as some personal attack or form of oppression and are never really happy.

This is also true. Not everyone is gonna make it big, thats just life, this isnt some communist utopia where everyone has equality of opportunity. The real question is can we reasonably say hard work and other virtues can allow someone to have a nice stable life for them and their family financially? In the US I think the answer is mostly a yes
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Godnorgosh posted...

If you're stuck in a low-skill field, more often than not there's no way to land some high-end management position right away. You need experience in mid-level work first. But that sector is what's shrinking.

The smart people in that predicament generally makes a determined effort to enlargen their skill set so they would be more marketable in more growing fields. Lets not act like no working class person ever lands a middle class job
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Hard work is important because it helps you appreciate things a lot more. Everything is just better when you know you've earned it imo. Everyone wants shortcuts, there are no shortcuts to success. The road is hard, but that's a good thing. Atleast you know it's real.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

idk about that, im part of the working class as my father was before me and working hard has made me more and more successful just like it made him more and more successful.

i dont feel placated at all. i feel inspired and motivated.

Godnorgosh posted...

LolTownz posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

idk about that, im part of the working class as my father was before me and working hard has made me more and more successful just like it made him more and more successful.

i dont feel placated at all. i feel inspired and motivated.

It's good to be you, then, isn't it?

or any of the other tens of millions of individuals who are working hard and enjoying the fruit of their labor

Godnorgosh posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

Lets not act like no working class person ever lands a middle class job

Well, that was never the argument. The argument was that it's harder for someone to do that now than in the past, and if this decades-long trend continues, it'll be nearly impossible later.

We had the biggest financial collapse in history less than a decade ago. Of course its harder now, economies takes long time to heal and continuously goes through cycles. Thats not to say the value of hard work diminished, in fact it means even more now.
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Godnorgosh posted...

LolTownz posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

LolTownz posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Working hard is a good thing, at least if you're doing the kind of work you want to do. "Work hard and you'll be successful (so stop focusing on other factors affecting you)" is an ideological position used to placate the working class.

idk about that, im part of the working class as my father was before me and working hard has made me more and more successful just like it made him more and more successful.

i dont feel placated at all. i feel inspired and motivated.

It's good to be you, then, isn't it?

or any of the other tens of millions of individuals who are working hard and enjoying the fruit of their labor

It's nice to be able to look at only one side of the coin.

Myself? I'll keep working hard, and if it happens to work out for me, then that's great. But I won't forget about those who work hard, struggle, yet never see the fruits of their labor. Those are the people I speak out for.

what do you do for a living? most people who work hard have the sense to judge whether or not they're doing something worth the time. i could work hard as a barista but my future would be limited unless i worked hard at my own coffee shop. make better choices and your efforts will be rewarded greatly.

LolTownz posted...

what do you do for a living? most people who work hard have the sense to judge whether or not they're doing something worth the time. i could work hard as a barista but my future would be limited unless i worked hard at my own coffee shop. make better choices and your efforts will be rewarded greatly.

so what is someone supposed to do if their only choices are "barista" or "starve to death"
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So, pretty much we should ignore all of the systemic impediments lower class people face and simplify it all down to "poor people are lazy and want hand-outs".

The fact is, a lot of people were sold a bill of goods. Do well in school, get a degree, work hard and everything will be fine was the mantra. Now people have degrees, no job and are in crippling student loan debt and somehow it's their fault? It's just Social Darwinism. The idea is, "if you're rich you deserve it. If you're poor you also deserve that", with no room for nuance. It's nonsense.
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averagejoel posted...

LolTownz posted...

what do you do for a living? most people who work hard have the sense to judge whether or not they're doing something worth the time. i could work hard as a barista but my future would be limited unless i worked hard at my own coffee shop. make better choices and your efforts will be rewarded greatly.

so what is someone supposed to do if their only choices are "barista" or "starve to death"

Make a determined effort when youre not working as a barista to acquire skills such that youll be more marketable for a better job. Is that idea foreign you? Its called working hard to better your situation. Im a first generation immigrant and Ive seen tons of immigrants do exactly this and they were able to better their lot in life, thats why they came to America after all, so they can move upwards
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