Current Events > I don't agree with the kneeling during the anthem, but after Trump's comment...

(+) Yeah! (+)

If I was an NFL player I would be kneeling my ass DOOOOWN on Sunday

I would dig a small hole and climb in it
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durr I hate Trump durr
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So an empty gesture that accomplishes nothing just to spite the president and a lot of Americans?

How brave and woke!
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"any empty gesture that accomplishes nothing"...*has become a huge story, gets a lot of media attention, and has gotten more people to talk about the issues involving our police departments*....yea, accomplished nothing...just because you have your fingers in your ears doesn't make it true. just because there are a lot of people ignoring the reason for the protests by deflecting to the "TROOPS", thus hindering any real conversation about the police doesn't mean it isn't creating awareness for it.
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VipaGTS posted...

"any empty gesture that accomplishes nothing"...*has become a huge story, gets a lot of media attention, and has gotten more people to talk about the issues involving our police departments*....yea, accomplished nothing...just because you have your fingers in your ears doesn't make it true. just because there are a lot of people ignoring the reason for the protests by deflecting to the "TROOPS", thus hindering any real conversation about the police doesn't mean it isn't creating awareness for it.

This.

Burgess posted...

I would dig a small hole and climb in it

Nah

Just don’t even come on the field for the anthem. Stay in the locker room or tunnel until it’s over.
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As a Fan of the Pats For every Patriot that kneels I will donate money to organizations that combat police brutality in solidarity with them.

I will donate extra in the extremely unlikely event that Brady kneels.

Fuck Trump.

Fuck White Supremacy

Fuck Inequality

fuck Police Brutality
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"It's making people talk" is not an accomplishment. Especially if the talk centers around how it's offending people. Nothing is changing because of this. There's not a single thing you can point out that shows this protest has had a measurable effect on anything except declining ratings, attendance, and favorability. Absolutely nothing. It's having the opposite effect of what you naive libs think.

People are turned off by it. Talk about having fingers in your ears.
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Once you have the President saying people should be fired for this, it becomes an entirely different issue. I think every player should take a knee now.
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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

"It's making people talk" is not an accomplishment. Especially if the talk centers around how it's offending people. Nothing is changing because of this. There's not a single thing you can point out that shows this protest has had a measurable effect on anything except declining ratings, attendance, and favorability. Absolutely nothing. It's having the opposite effect of what you naive libs think.

People are turned off by it. Talk about having fingers in your ears.

Anyone at all that gets offended by someone kneeling/sitting for the anthem needs to grow thicker skin.

Funny how conservatives don't seem to be able to do this considering how often they dole out this advice to liberals
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VipaGTS posted...

*has become a huge story, gets a lot of media attention, and has gotten more people to talk about the issues involving our police departments*

Literally nobody talks about issues involving the police in response to people kneeling before football games.

It's a fucking sideshow that distracts from the game AND the very issue they kneel for.

Oh, and Micheal Bennett still hasn't proven his claim of police brutality.
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darkjedilink posted...

VipaGTS posted...

*has become a huge story, gets a lot of media attention, and has gotten more people to talk about the issues involving our police departments*

Literally nobody talks about issues involving the police in response to people kneeling before football games.

It's a fucking sideshow that distracts from the game AND the very issue they kneel for.

Oh, and Micheal Bennett still hasn't proven his claim of police brutality.

The LVPD had a press conference about the incident and are doing a full investigation. They've admitted that the incident happened as Bennett explained and went into detail on NPR but painted it as a safety precaution.

LVPD doesn't do press conferences unless it's related to a death or a shooting.
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Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!
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Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

How are NFL players destroying anything or blocking roads by kneeling/sitting?
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Twin3Turbo posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

How are NFL players destroying anything or blocking roads by kneeling/sitting?

Sarcasm >_>
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Smashingpmkns posted...

darkjedilink posted...

VipaGTS posted...

*has become a huge story, gets a lot of media attention, and has gotten more people to talk about the issues involving our police departments*

Literally nobody talks about issues involving the police in response to people kneeling before football games.

It's a fucking sideshow that distracts from the game AND the very issue they kneel for.

Oh, and Micheal Bennett still hasn't proven his claim of police brutality.

The LVPD had a press conference about the incident and are doing a full investigation. They've admitted that the incident happened as Bennett explained and went into detail on NPR but painted it as a safety precaution.

LVPD doesn't do press conferences unless it's related to a death or a shooting.

The LVPD admitted that the police officer said he'd blow his fucking head off?

I doubt that.

If that happened, the video evidence would be plastered all over this board.

Hell, Micheal Bennett's own lawyer admitted that race had nothing to do with it, so clearly it didn't go down the way he said it did.
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UrCa1988 posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

How are NFL players destroying anything or blocking roads by kneeling/sitting?

Sarcasm >_>

Oh, my bad.
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Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.
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darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.

Lmfao

No it’s simply because they’re black
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darkjedilink posted...

Literally nobody talks about issues involving the police in response to people kneeling before football games.

because no one is willing to. the protest is FOR police abuse. the response to those protests are "shut up, stop disrespecting troops and get out of our country!"...he's not disrespecting Troops so by deflecting to that they're choosing not to allow the conversation to happen.

"measurable change" takes time...it takes even more time when a rather large group won't even have a discussion with you about what needs to be changed...you don't have to agree with him fully. you can tell him his ideas might be too extreme...it doesn't mean a discussion about the actual issue where a common ground is found can't take place. in order for that to happen both sides need to be willing and the side protesting needs to chip away at the "MUH TROOPS!" wall that's been put up. Awareness will help do that. These protests are helping create awareness....Until both sides, the "fuck all cops" side and the "lalala can't hear you my troops my flag!" side are willing to have that discussion the awareness means nothing....but the awareness still needs to be there. you can't set your level of what "doing something" is at the absolute highest level and then claim its doing nothing. It is doing something. now shut up about things he isn't saying and have a discussion about what he is saying. Don't blame him and other players because you're currently not willing to do that.
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VipaGTS posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Literally nobody talks about issues involving the police in response to people kneeling before football games.

because no one is willing to. the protest is FOR police abuse. the response to those protests are "shut up, stop disrespecting troops and get out of our country!"...he's not disrespecting Troops so by deflecting to that they're choosing not to allow the conversation to happen.

"measurable change" takes time...it takes even more time when a rather large group won't even have a discussion with you about what needs to be changed...you don't have to agree with him fully. you can tell him his ideas might be too extreme...it doesn't mean a discussion about the actual issue where a common ground is found can't take place. in order for that to happen both sides need to be willing and the side protesting needs to chip away at the "MUH TROOPS!" wall that's been put up. Awareness will help do that. These protests are helping create awareness....Until both sides, the "fuck all cops" side and the "lalala can't hear you my troops my flag!" side are willing to have that discussion the awareness means nothing....but the awareness still needs to be there. you can't set your level of what "doing something" is at the absolute highest level and then claim its doing nothing. It is doing something. now shut up about things he isn't saying and have a discussion about it. Don't blame him and other players because you're currently not willing to do that.

You're right that one side doesn't want to discuss what needs to be changed - like the fact that 13% of the country's population is the race that's responsible for over a third of this country's violent crime, and almost HALF of all crime.

Guess what? That means that cops have more dealings with black people, most of which involve violence perpetrated by a black person. FIX THAT PROBLEM, and maybe the cops won't be an issue in the first place.

But no, we can't talk about that, because actually fixing the problem takes away from the victim narrative.
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darkjedilink posted...

But no, we can't talk about that, because actually fixing the problem takes away from the victim narrative.

Both things can't be problems? this is an example of exactly what i just said...your narrative is "black people do more crime therefore that's the only issue...FIX IT"....People already admit that, yes, even black people...They are trying to fix the problem. There are programs in inner-cities that are prone to gang violence hoping to stop kids from following that path. there are programs to help those kids go to school, etc...what else can be done? Telling the gang members "bad gang member! thats a bad gang member!" and hoping they stop?

so yes, people on that side are already looking at ways to stop that...now why don't you want to have a discussion about the police and how they aren't perfect? you disagree with Collins use of the word "black" and immediately shut him down instead of trying to have a conversation about the police as a whole....and then cry about his protest "doing nothing"...you are contributing to it doing nothing.
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eston posted...

Once you have the President saying people should be fired for this, it becomes an entirely different issue. I think every player should take a knee now.

This. Trump has now personally taken a giant shit on the first amendment (rather than just have female-Spicey do it for him).
Funny how conservatives are always so up in arms over "muh free speech" when it's not even a first amendment issue, and now that it actually is they're (un)surprisingly silent.
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Why don't you agree with the kneeling?
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BLAKUboy posted...

eston posted...

Once you have the President saying people should be fired for this, it becomes an entirely different issue. I think every player should take a knee now.

This. Trump has now personally taken a giant shit on the first amendment (rather than just have female-Spicey do it for him).
Funny how conservatives are always so up in arms over "muh free speech" when it's not even a first amendment issue, and now that it actually is they're (un)surprisingly silent.

He didn't "shit" on anything, other than himself.

Unless he actually tries to intervene, he hasn't done anything against the First Amendment in any way.
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darkjedilink posted...

Unless he actually tries to intervene, he hasn't done anything against the First Amendment in any way.

You don't believe it would be intervention if he suggests they start doing it and then it actually starts happening?
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VipaGTS posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But no, we can't talk about that, because actually fixing the problem takes away from the victim narrative.

Both things can't be problems? this is an example of exactly what i just said...your narrative is "black people do more crime therefore that's the only issue...FIX IT"....People already admit that, yes, even black people...They are trying to fix the problem. There are programs in inner-cities that are prone to gang violence hoping to stop kids from following that path. there are programs to help those kids go to school, etc...what else can be done? Telling the gang members "bad gang member! thats a bad gang member!" and hoping they stop?

so yes, people on that side are already looking at ways to stop that...now why don't you want to have a discussion about the police and how they aren't perfect? you disagree with Collins use of the word "black" and immediately shut him down instead of trying to have a conversation about the police as a whole....and then cry about his protest "doing nothing"...you are contributing to it doing nothing.

Tell me why that cop killing Micheal Brown was a problem. Tell me why that cop killing Alton Sterling was a problem. Tell me why Freddie Gray's death was a problem.

Then, tell me why they were in the situation they were in to have a cop kill them. Oh, wait - you don't have to. Micheal Brown robbed a convenience store, beat the shit out of the owner, and then attacked a police officer. Alton Sterling raped people, and was carrying around a firearm he wasn't legally allowed to due to his felony rape convictions. He then tried to pull it on police, after repeatedly being told not to move. Freddie Gray was arrested, in transport, and instead of just sitting down, decided to get up, and resisted the police officers' attempts to seat him, when he ended up breaking his own neck based on his stupidity.

You want to talk about police abuse? Yeah, let's talk about police abuse. Philando Castille was a travesty of justice from beginning to end. However, that's not what they're kneeling about. They're kneeling over the criminals cops killed - two in self-defense. One of the protesters recently cried "POLICE BRUTALITY!!!" after being handcuffed. Just handcuffed.

The vast majority of the "abuse" allegations would never exist had the crimes that caused the police interaction not happened in the first place. By taking the argument AWAY from the criminal and putting it on law enforcement, you're basically saying that you care more for criminals than society.
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UrCa1988 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Unless he actually tries to intervene, he hasn't done anything against the First Amendment in any way.

You don't believe it would be intervention if he suggests they start doing it and then it actually starts happening?

First off, you do realize that these players are under contract, right? They can't just be fired for kneeling, unless it's specifically in the contract.

That being said, unless the President explicitly threatens some sort of sanctions on the NFL, no, that's not intervening. It's the President saying stupid shit, and nothing more.
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We should absolutely, 100 percent be more concerned with the state's actions than those of individual criminals. No society is crime-free; police abuse implicates us all.
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Antifar posted...

Why don't you agree with the kneeling?

I view it as a distraction because it ends up overshadowing the original cause because of the hysteria some people have around the flag.

Antifar posted...

We should absolutely, 100 percent be more concerned with the state's actions than those of individual criminals. No society is crime-free; police abuse implicates us all.

Agreed, if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of so-called "abuse" turns out to be race-baiting dogwhistling by liberals.
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darkjedilink posted...

VipaGTS posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But no, we can't talk about that, because actually fixing the problem takes away from the victim narrative.

Both things can't be problems? this is an example of exactly what i just said...your narrative is "black people do more crime therefore that's the only issue...FIX IT"....People already admit that, yes, even black people...They are trying to fix the problem. There are programs in inner-cities that are prone to gang violence hoping to stop kids from following that path. there are programs to help those kids go to school, etc...what else can be done? Telling the gang members "bad gang member! thats a bad gang member!" and hoping they stop?

so yes, people on that side are already looking at ways to stop that...now why don't you want to have a discussion about the police and how they aren't perfect? you disagree with Collins use of the word "black" and immediately shut him down instead of trying to have a conversation about the police as a whole....and then cry about his protest "doing nothing"...you are contributing to it doing nothing.

Tell me why that cop killing Micheal Brown was a problem. Tell me why that cop killing Alton Sterling was a problem. Tell me why Freddie Gray's death was a problem.

Then, tell me why they were in the situation they were in to have a cop kill them. Oh, wait - you don't have to. Micheal Brown robbed a convenience store, beat the shit out of the owner, and then attacked a police officer. Alton Sterling raped people, and was carrying around a firearm he wasn't legally allowed to due to his felony rape convictions. He then tried to pull it on police, after repeatedly being told not to move. Freddie Gray was arrested, in transport, and instead of just sitting down, decided to get up, and resisted the police officers' attempts to seat him, when he ended up breaking his own neck based on his stupidity.

You want to talk about police abuse? Yeah, let's talk about police abuse. Philando Castille was a travesty of justice from beginning to end. However, that's not what they're kneeling about. They're kneeling over the criminals cops killed - two in self-defense. One of the protesters recently cried "POLICE BRUTALITY!!!" after being handcuffed. Just handcuffed.

The vast majority of the "abuse" allegations would never exist had the crimes that caused the police interaction not happened in the first place. By taking the argument AWAY from the criminal and putting it on law enforcement, you're basically saying that you care more for criminals than society.

Where did they players say they're weren't kneeling Philando?

I love people who bitch about Kaepernick. They are little people who care more about symbols of freedom than they do about the actual freedoms those symbols are supposed to represent.
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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

"It's making people talk" is not an accomplishment. Especially if the talk centers around how it's offending people. Nothing is changing because of this. There's not a single thing you can point out that shows this protest has had a measurable effect on anything except declining ratings, attendance, and favorability. Absolutely nothing. It's having the opposite effect of what you naive libs think.

People are turned off by it. Talk about having fingers in your ears.

"look at me. I'm a frail, little snowflake who gets offended by random trivial shit like people kneeling during a boring, pointless song boo hoo"
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CruelBuffalo posted...

darkjedilink posted...

VipaGTS posted...

darkjedilink posted...

But no, we can't talk about that, because actually fixing the problem takes away from the victim narrative.

Both things can't be problems? this is an example of exactly what i just said...your narrative is "black people do more crime therefore that's the only issue...FIX IT"....People already admit that, yes, even black people...They are trying to fix the problem. There are programs in inner-cities that are prone to gang violence hoping to stop kids from following that path. there are programs to help those kids go to school, etc...what else can be done? Telling the gang members "bad gang member! thats a bad gang member!" and hoping they stop?

so yes, people on that side are already looking at ways to stop that...now why don't you want to have a discussion about the police and how they aren't perfect? you disagree with Collins use of the word "black" and immediately shut him down instead of trying to have a conversation about the police as a whole....and then cry about his protest "doing nothing"...you are contributing to it doing nothing.

Tell me why that cop killing Micheal Brown was a problem. Tell me why that cop killing Alton Sterling was a problem. Tell me why Freddie Gray's death was a problem.

Then, tell me why they were in the situation they were in to have a cop kill them. Oh, wait - you don't have to. Micheal Brown robbed a convenience store, beat the shit out of the owner, and then attacked a police officer. Alton Sterling raped people, and was carrying around a firearm he wasn't legally allowed to due to his felony rape convictions. He then tried to pull it on police, after repeatedly being told not to move. Freddie Gray was arrested, in transport, and instead of just sitting down, decided to get up, and resisted the police officers' attempts to seat him, when he ended up breaking his own neck based on his stupidity.

You want to talk about police abuse? Yeah, let's talk about police abuse. Philando Castille was a travesty of justice from beginning to end. However, that's not what they're kneeling about. They're kneeling over the criminals cops killed - two in self-defense. One of the protesters recently cried "POLICE BRUTALITY!!!" after being handcuffed. Just handcuffed.

The vast majority of the "abuse" allegations would never exist had the crimes that caused the police interaction not happened in the first place. By taking the argument AWAY from the criminal and putting it on law enforcement, you're basically saying that you care more for criminals than society.

Where did they players say they're weren't kneeling Philando?

The kneeling started before his death. If you want to argue that it's another one on the pile, fine - they're still kneeling for the idea that a police officer who shoots a violent criminal to death in self-defense is wrong if and only if the violent criminal happens to have a dark skin tone.
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Man can you ever tell darkjedilink doesn’t like black people
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Bio1590 posted...

Man can you ever tell darkjedilink doesn’t like black people

Expecting black people to solve their problems means I don't like them?
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Mr_MacPhisto posted...

"It's making people talk" is not an accomplishment. Especially if the talk centers around how it's offending people. Nothing is changing because of this. There's not a single thing you can point out that shows this protest has had a measurable effect on anything except declining ratings, attendance, and favorability. Absolutely nothing. It's having the opposite effect of what you naive libs think.

People are turned off by it. Talk about having fingers in your ears.

"look at me. I'm a frail, little snowflake who gets offended by random trivial shit like people kneeling during a boring, pointless song boo hoo"

Not biting on your transparent and flimsy trolling.
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last i checked Trump didnt make the national anthem so kneeling during it is disrespecting alot more than the President
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darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.

No, this is a common complaint those against the protests generally make.

So when someone does it without blocking roads or damaging property, they still complain.
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ACHEEKSMALLOY posted...

last i checked Trump didnt make the national anthem so kneeling during it is disrespecting alot more than the President

So?

You do realize you have the right to do things that are disrespectful, right? As long as you're willing to accept public scorn for such, go right ahead.
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Mr_MacPhisto posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Mr_MacPhisto posted...

"It's making people talk" is not an accomplishment. Especially if the talk centers around how it's offending people. Nothing is changing because of this. There's not a single thing you can point out that shows this protest has had a measurable effect on anything except declining ratings, attendance, and favorability. Absolutely nothing. It's having the opposite effect of what you naive libs think.

People are turned off by it. Talk about having fingers in your ears.

"look at me. I'm a frail, little snowflake who gets offended by random trivial shit like people kneeling during a boring, pointless song boo hoo"

Not biting on your transparent and flimsy trolling.

"Not crying... j/k. Totally crying. Tears pouring out of my eyes like fire hoses"
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Villain posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.

No, this is a common complaint those against the protests generally make.

So when someone does it without blocking roads or damaging property, they still complain.

I'm well aware of that. That doesn't change my point in any way.

Protesting "police brutality" that far more often than not turns out to be legitimate self-defense is stupid in and of itself. You look like a giant douchebag if you're doing it as a multi-millionaire who got that way playing a game.
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ACHEEKSMALLOY posted...

last i checked Trump didnt make the national anthem so kneeling during it is disrespecting alot more than the President

you know who else didn't make the national anthem? Someone who knows how to make music that actually sounds good.
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darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.

No, this is a common complaint those against the protests generally make.

So when someone does it without blocking roads or damaging property, they still complain.

I'm well aware of that. That doesn't change my point in any way.

Protesting "police brutality" that far more often than not turns out to be legitimate self-defense is stupid in and of itself. You look like a giant douchebag if you're doing it as a multi-millionaire who got that way playing a game.

Yeah that deaf guy that cops just blew away seems like he was totally dangerous what with all that standing there trying to figure out what the fuck was going on.
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ScazarMeltex posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Villain posted...

Why can't they protest without destruction and blocking roads?!?!

This statement suggests that just because someone peacefully protests, people have to like their protest, or agree with the sentiment.

The fact is, very few people nationally agree with these protests, because of who it's coming from - entitled, privileged millionaires who got that way playing a children's game.

No, this is a common complaint those against the protests generally make.

So when someone does it without blocking roads or damaging property, they still complain.

I'm well aware of that. That doesn't change my point in any way.

Protesting "police brutality" that far more often than not turns out to be legitimate self-defense is stupid in and of itself. You look like a giant douchebag if you're doing it as a multi-millionaire who got that way playing a game.

Yeah that deaf guy that cops just blew away seems like he was totally dangerous what with all that standing there trying to figure out what the fuck was going on.

ITP: "more often than not" literally means "every single one."
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I wonder how large the overlap is between people who dislike the discussion of police brutality because only a minority of cops are perpetrating it and those who are totally okay with generalizing Muslims as a threat.
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