Current Events > 2 in 5 Muslims apparently feel discriminated against in Europe

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/21/two-in-five-european-muslims-have-felt-discriminated-against-survey

Nearly 40% of women who wore a headscarf or niqab in public felt that was why they had faced discrimination when applying for a job. More than 30% of women wearing traditional or religious clothing said they had been harassed, most often through offensive gestures or comments.

Idk, but perhaps someone who only desires to reveal her eyes to the outside world isn't perhaps the best person to judge how she is perceived.
Surely she has already put down a rather significant marker/barrier to everyone else, particularly non Muslims?
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nice victim blaming
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Cultural differences
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Shocking.
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unpleasant_milk posted...

perhaps someone who only desires to reveal her eyes to the outside world isn't perhaps the best person to judge how she is perceived

or maybe she perceives more by having her other senses covered on some sci fi shit
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mario2000 posted...

nice victim blaming

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-Gavirulax- posted...

That seems about right, there is a lot of anti-Muslim rhetoric as opposed to anti-Islam which is what it should be focused on.

The niqab for example, is not a positive symbol of Islam, and its wearers shouldn't be surprised that it receives a less than warm reception.

Not advocating any abuse towards its wearers, but they should understand the impression they're sending out.
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teepan95 posted...

mario2000 posted...

nice victim blaming

Not really. I'm just not surprised at how divisive a reception that a divisive garment and its wearer receives.
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Idk, but perhaps someone who only desires to reveal her eyes to the outside world isn't perhaps the best person to judge how she is perceived.
Surely she has already put down a rather significant marker/barrier to everyone else, particularly non Muslims?

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude
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BootyGif posted...

Cultural differences

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-Gavirulax- posted...

mario2000 posted...

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

In a society that often relies on facial recognition he has a point. They're obviously going to get reactions like this.

so you are saying its their fault that they are being discriminated against. that's the literal definition of victim blaming, which is this person's point. Is your counter-argument that victim blaming is justifiable?

"Discrimination is okay because I don't like Islam."
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-Gavirulax- posted...

mario2000 posted...

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

In a society that often relies on facial recognition he has a point. They're obviously going to get reactions like this.

Well then that's the fault of the discriminator, now isn't it?
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-Gavirulax- posted...

I never mentioned the Hijab, if people give that weird looks then I'm not defending it.

The other two, that is more debatable.

Imo, anything that's not a shuttlecock burqa is fair game and shouldn't be discriminated against.
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Meanwhile 5 in 5 non-Muslim women feel discriminated against if they set foot in Saudi Arabia or Palestine.
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Asherlee10 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

mario2000 posted...

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

In a society that often relies on facial recognition he has a point. They're obviously going to get reactions like this.

so you are saying its their fault that they are being discriminated against. that's the literal definition of victim blaming, which is this person's point. Is your counter-argument that victim blaming is justifiable?

I'm saying they choose to wear something (in reference to specific religious clothing in the Niqab and Burka) that ostracizes them from society they can't exactly screech on about discrimination. Their religion does that more than anything else.

Really this is also a reflection of how short-sighted we are. Yes, Islam is on the forefront of a lot of bullshit right now, but that doesn't mean we can't use some sense to evaluate individuals.

A Muslim woman is not inherently awful because she is wearing a religious scarf.

Why would you hire someone whose face you can't see? How does that seem like someone you should trust?

Big difference between "feel discriminated against" and "actually are discriminated against."
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Crying victim blaming is basically a thought-terminating cliche at this point.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Meanwhile 5 in 5 non-Muslim women feel discriminated against if they set foot in Saudi Arabia or Palestine.

lol i can bet 20$ steam wallet code that u are 101% Israeli
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BLAKUboy posted...

"Discrimination is okay because I don't like Islam."

"Discrimination never happens in Islamic countries"
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That's unfortunate.

But I'd bet at least 2/5 native Western Europeans feel worried about being blown up or run over or stabbed while going about their normal business these days
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mario2000 posted...

Idk, but perhaps someone who only desires to reveal her eyes to the outside world isn't perhaps the best person to judge how she is perceived.
Surely she has already put down a rather significant marker/barrier to everyone else, particularly non Muslims?

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

Not really. Is it victim blaming when you call out some guy that goes to a job interview with a tee shirt and jeans and doesn't get the job?
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-Gavirulax- posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

mario2000 posted...

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

In a society that often relies on facial recognition he has a point. They're obviously going to get reactions like this.

so you are saying its their fault that they are being discriminated against. that's the literal definition of victim blaming, which is this person's point. Is your counter-argument that victim blaming is justifiable?

I'm saying they choose to wear something (in reference to specific religious clothing in the Niqab and Burka) that ostracizes them from society they can't exactly screech on about discrimination. Their religion does that more than anything else.

Pretty much what I was trying to get at.

Maybe I wasn't explaining it perfectly well.

Garments such as the niqab and Burka are inherently discriminating themselves FROM the rest of society.

Would you feel happy to have everyone walking around in balaclavas? Wouldn't that be odd?

Well, a garment that permits just as much facial contact just because it is tenuously attached to a religion is not ok and imo, ripe for ridicule. Just as much as someone who desires to wear a balaclava all day.
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CrimsonRage posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Meanwhile 5 in 5 non-Muslim women feel discriminated against if they set foot in Saudi Arabia or Palestine.

Non-Muslims are discriminated against in Muslim countries so Muslims should be discriminated against in non-Muslim countries?

The message should not be "they're shit so we'll be shit" but "they're shit, but we're not."

Sometimes it's good to dole out a taste of bitter medicine that they themselves make others drink.

Might make them reconsider a few things when they realise how shitty it tastes.
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Asherlee10 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I would ask to meet them privately. Is there an issue for one woman to see the face of another woman in that sect of Islam?

Nope, just men and how you described is generally how employers deal with hiring female Muslims. When my sister still wore a Hijab she had a bit of an issue once, but nothing major.

In that case, I'd ask her if she was comfortable doing a face-to-face interview with a man instead. If she declined, I'd try my best to explain why that would be an issue.

I can see a multitude of jobs where face covering is a huge no-no for me.

Teacher, policewoman, social worker, counsellor, cashier, nurse... etc.

Facial expressions convey so much.

I would not at all be pleased of either myself or my family had to deal with someone dressed in such a manner, and who expected to be taken seriously.

It displays a distinct lack of respect and professional courtesy. Not to mention downright peculiar as fuck.

What would a child make of a teacher wearing this?
What sick patient, particularly an infant, would feel reassurance from a nurse dressed like that?
Who would feel comfortable opening up to a counsellor dressed like this?

They want to talk about tolerance and respect, well fucking respect our ways and stop expecting everyone else to respect and 'be all cool' with 'needing' to cover up like some science fiction monster.
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"Judging people for shit they have absolute control over is wrong." ~ People that judge red hats
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Asherlee10 posted...

unpleasant_milk posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I would ask to meet them privately. Is there an issue for one woman to see the face of another woman in that sect of Islam?

Nope, just men and how you described is generally how employers deal with hiring female Muslims. When my sister still wore a Hijab she had a bit of an issue once, but nothing major.

In that case, I'd ask her if she was comfortable doing a face-to-face interview with a man instead. If she declined, I'd try my best to explain why that would be an issue.

I can see a multitude of jobs where face covering is a huge no-no for me.

Teacher, policewoman, social worker, counsellor, cashier, nurse... etc.

Facial expressions convey so much.

I would not at all be pleased of either myself or my family had to deal with someone dressed in such a manner, and who expected to be taken seriously.

It displays a distinct lack of respect and professional courtesy. Not to mention downright peculiar as fuck.

What would a child make of a teacher wearing this?
What sick patient, particularly an infant, would feel reassurance from a nurse dressed like that?
Who would feel comfortable opening up to a counsellor dressed like this?

They want to talk about tolerance and respect, well fucking respect our ways and stop expecting everyone else to respect and 'be all cool' with 'needing' to cover up like some science fiction monster.

Agreed. I would say try to stick to the jobs that don't require face-to-face interaction. I'd have no problem hiring an IT freelancer that wore a full-face covering garment. It hold no weight against her ability to code.

I wouldn't have them doing anything in a workplace environment.

Have them work remotely from home or something. They wouldn't fit in quite frankly.
I wouldn't have someone sitting all day in an office wearing a balaclava or crash helmet... so why should this be any different?
Religious needs?
That's quite some tenuous stretch, no?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

"Judging people for shit they have absolute control over is wrong." ~ People that judge red hats

Quite.

But we are quite used to this hypocritical stance, aren't we?
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I wonder why?

Asherlee10 posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

mario2000 posted...

"its her fault for wearing those clothes"

this is literally victim blaming my dude

In a society that often relies on facial recognition he has a point. They're obviously going to get reactions like this.

so you are saying its their fault that they are being discriminated against. that's the literal definition of victim blaming, which is this person's point. Is your counter-argument that victim blaming is justifiable?

I'm saying they choose to wear something (in reference to specific religious clothing in the Niqab and Burka) that ostracizes them from society they can't exactly screech on about discrimination. Their religion does that more than anything else.

Really this is also a reflection of how short-sighted we are. Yes, Islam is on the forefront of a lot of bullshit right now, but that doesn't mean we can't use some sense to evaluate individuals.

A Muslim woman is not inherently awful because she is wearing a religious scarf.

But she believes in awful practices like forcing girls to cover up

thronedfire2 posted...

That's unfortunate.

But I'd bet at least 2/5 native Western Europeans feel worried about being blown up or run over or stabbed while going about their normal business these days

Native Western Europeans have more to fear from their own moms than some random Jihadist.

CrimsonRage posted...

This is a false equivalency. People have full control over who they choose to support and you can judge them on that.

People have full control over what they wear and what you wear and can be (and for religious attire, is) a political statement. Women choosing to wear oppressive clothes makes a political statement. One I vehemently disagree with. I don't want what are essentially slave rags to be normalized in my country.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

"Judging people for shit they have absolute control over is wrong." ~ People that judge red hats

Indeed. That's why the right wing needs to stop with its anti-Muslim vilification. You can't take the moral high ground and whine about being judged for being white/conservative and then turn around and shame Muslims in the same breath.

Increasing the acceptance of full Islamic veils such as burkas in our non Islamic societies, will serve to normalise it.

Unacceptable for a myriad of reasons.

One being that it will place further pressure on non virtue signalling Muslim females to conform to such ways. Even non hijab wearing Muslim females face peer pressure to conform to wearing a hijab. It would get a lot worse if this more radical and extreme form of covering became more widespread. Especially when you consider how many of these communities are rather insular and less integrated with society as a whole.

And really, we are not a middle eastern society and we should not be expected to tolerate this kind of behaviour.
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CrimsonRage posted...

A lot of Muslim women are forced to dress that way, but Muslims in the West seem to be treating that clothing as cultural identifiers and the women are kind of "taking them back."

"Taking them back" doesn't work if they are still used today as being oppressive.
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CrimsonRage posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Meanwhile 5 in 5 non-Muslim women feel discriminated against if they set foot in Saudi Arabia or Palestine.

Non-Muslims are discriminated against in Muslim countries so Muslims should be discriminated against in non-Muslim countries?

The message should not be "they're shit so we'll be shit" but "they're shit, but we're not."

tell that to nazi punchers and people who think its justified to assualt and kill someone cos they said the n word.
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Simple solution, go the fuck back home, problem solved
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KillerKhan420 posted...

Simple solution, go the fuck back home, problem solved

You do realize that "home" for many of them IS Europe, right?
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