Current Events > Which side were you on in Captain America: Civil War?

(+) Yeah! (+)

topic.
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Hail Hydra
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_BlueMonk posted...

Hail Hydra

what everyone would be saying if the Sokovia Accords were adopted
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ThePrinceFish posted...

_BlueMonk posted...

Hail Hydra

what everyone would be saying if the Sokovia Accords were adopted

not the point though
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Team Rogers/Captain America
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Team Stark. Superheroes shouldn't really be allowed free reign.
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Cap. You can bet if I had superpowers I wouldn't give a fuck about what the government wanted me to do.


also, it was Cap's movie so they pretty clearly painted him as the good guy and gave Tony idiot-syndrome.

also Thunderbolt Ross lol. Aliens were destroying NYC and you saved us! You need to be kept in check! wat.
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Fuck Tony. He's a self righteous hypocritical asshat

Do you mean which side do I agree with or which side do I think would have actually won the fight at the airport?
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America because he's a better character
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Zemo
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The only reason you would want superheroes to be kept in check is because you're afraid of them.
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Team Stark!

KING IN THE NORTH!
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lilORANG posted...

Cap. You can bet if I had superpowers I wouldn't give a fuck about what the government wanted me to do.


also, it was Cap's movie so they pretty clearly painted him as the good guy and gave Tony idiot-syndrome.

also Thunderbolt Ross lol. Aliens were destroying NYC and you saved us! You need to be kept in check! wat.

Weird because I had the opposite reading

Tony Stark for once was being responsible and suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to operate privately

Whereas the Cap was just arrogantly saying that their judgment was best. Whatever happened in the plot with Bucky was after that fact.
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

The only reason you would want superheroes to be kept in check is because you're afraid of them.

Why wouldn't you be

Dudes be running around with nuclear weapon level technology wherever they want and have shorter tempers than Kim Jong Un
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If you were on team Stark you weren't paying attention.
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ZCheveyo posted...

Do you mean which side do I agree with or which side do I think would have actually won the fight at the airport?

Agree with. I kind of felt that team Captain America had some serious fucking plot armour in that fight.
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_MorningStar posted...

If you were on team Stark you weren't paying attention.

Explain
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pinky0926 posted...

I kind of felt that team Captain America had some serious fucking plot armour in that fight.

That's why I was asking....I agree with Captain America. His team has some of my favorites on it, but I think they would have gotten stomped in that fight with Wanda being the only big threat. Once they took out her then it would have been nothing.
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pinky0926 posted...

Weird because I had the opposite reading

Tony Stark for once was being responsible and suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to operate privately

Whereas the Cap was just arrogantly saying that their judgment was best. Whatever happened in the plot with Bucky was after that fact.

Their judgement isn't perfect, but it's unquestionably better than the UN's.
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cap was literally on the evil side
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pinky0926 posted...

lilORANG posted...

Cap. You can bet if I had superpowers I wouldn't give a fuck about what the government wanted me to do.


also, it was Cap's movie so they pretty clearly painted him as the good guy and gave Tony idiot-syndrome.

also Thunderbolt Ross lol. Aliens were destroying NYC and you saved us! You need to be kept in check! wat.

Weird because I had the opposite reading

Tony Stark for once was being responsible and suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to operate privately

Whereas the Cap was just arrogantly saying that their judgment was best. Whatever happened in the plot with Bucky was after that fact.

Pretty much, as much as Tony is a shitty person, his reasoning was sound and they clearly did the whole bright kid died in shit you were involved in so he could be guilty and have the audience know it was an honest move stance.

Rogers was just, lol fuck everyone I will do whatever the fuck I want to do, there is nothing wrong with super heroes acting along with the goverment, in my hero academia heroes have to register and get licenses and have their own restrictions and IIRC the same goes for the One Punch Man universe, rules exist for a reason.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Their judgement isn't perfect, but it's unquestionably better than the UN's.

Yeah, but imagine the world's internatinal conflicts being decided by a team of like 4 Americans who's sole qualification is that they can punch real good, with literally no oversight

Doesn't make a lot of real world sense to me
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pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

The only reason you would want superheroes to be kept in check is because you're afraid of them.

Why wouldn't you be

Dudes be running around with nuclear weapon level technology wherever they want and have shorter tempers than Kim Jong Un

Because there is nothing you can do about it anyways.
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orcus_snake posted...

Pretty much, as much as Tony is a shitty person, his reasoning was sound and they clearly did the whole bright kid died in shit you were involved in so he could be guilty and have the audience know it was an honest move stance.

Rogers was just, lol fuck everyone I will do whatever the fuck I want to do, there is nothing wrong with super heroes acting along with the goverment, in my hero academia heroes have to register and get licenses and have their own restrictions and IIRC the same goes for the One Punch Man universe, rules exist for a reason.

Like personally the idea of future Avengers plots being reigned in with political bullshit is horrifying, but it just makes more sense to support Stark's point of view in a "who did the right thing?" hypothetical to me
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ZCheveyo posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I kind of felt that team Captain America had some serious fucking plot armour in that fight.

That's why I was asking....I agree with Captain America. His team has some of my favorites on it, but I think they would have gotten stomped in that fight with Wanda being the only big threat. Once they took out her then it would have been nothing.

Vision alone should have been enough for all of them, realistically
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Team Thor

pinky0926 posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Their judgement isn't perfect, but it's unquestionably better than the UN's.

Yeah, but imagine the world's internatinal conflicts being decided by a team of like 4 Americans who's sole qualification is that they can punch real good, with literally no oversight

Doesn't make a lot of real world sense to me

What if they decided not to help anyways? They aren't obligated.
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How could anyone be on Captain America's side?

He was being selfish af
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pinky0926 posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Their judgement isn't perfect, but it's unquestionably better than the UN's.

Yeah, but imagine the world's internatinal conflicts being decided by a team of like 4 Americans who's sole qualification is that they can punch real good, with literally no oversight

Doesn't make a lot of real world sense to me

They don't deal with "the world's internatinal [sic] conflicts," they stop international criminals and terrorists. Very different, and much less political. Again, it has some major flaws, but it's unquestionably a far better system than the UN deciding what they do.
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Srk700 posted...

Team Thor

screw you guys; I'm going home.
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pikachupwnage posted...

Team Stark!

KING IN THE NORTH!

Lmfao
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

What if they decided not to help anyways? They aren't obligated.

Take out the superhero part of the equation. let's say you go out right now with a baseball bat and start beating on gangsters in detroit. Then you tell the cops you're just keeping the streets clean and you're not obligated to help.

Dude you're gonna get arrested so fast it's not funny. Apparently, the only difference with the Avengers to do exactly that is because...they're good at it? I can't see a reason for why they shouldn't have oversight. It's more weird that anyone would just let 5 dudes with good intentions handle international diplomacy and conflict resolution without any checks and balances.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

They don't deal with "the world's internatinal [sic] conflicts," they stop international criminals and terrorists. Very different, and much less political. Again, it has some major flaws, but it's unquestionably a far better system than the UN deciding what they do.

You're splitting hairs here. How a terrorist cell plotting to release biochemical warfare on the world doesn't fall into "international conflicts" is a real puzzle for me. Either way, why would you be allowed to just do whatever the hell you want without reporting to some kind of authority? That's pure anarchy. The question isn't how good they are at the job. The question is whether they should be allowed to do the job with no accountability.
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Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.
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pinky0926 posted...

Take out the superhero part of the equation. let's say you go out right now with a baseball bat and start beating on gangsters in detroit. Then you tell the cops you're just keeping the streets clean and you're not obligated to help.

Dude you're gonna get arrested so fast it's not funny. Apparently, the only difference with the Avengers to do exactly that is because...they're good at it? I can't see a reason for why they shouldn't have oversight. It's more weird that anyone would just let 5 dudes with good intentions handle international diplomacy and conflict resolution without any checks and balances.

1. You can't take superhero out of the equation.

2. These people take on problems normal people can't handle, thats why they're needed in that universe. Take the scene from the first Avengers when Cap is giving orders to the cop. He then says "Why should I take orders from you?" And Cap proceeds to beat up 2 of the aliens and the cop follows his orders. You think the cop is going to be like, NO! You're going to be arrested!
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Xelltrix posted...

Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

1. You can't take superhero out of the equation.

Why not? I'm demonstrating a point here. The only difference between a privately operating superhero group and a normal person is that the superhero group has the capacity to level a country. If anything removing the superhero part of the equation should have helped your argument, but it doesn't. You can't just do whatever you want using whatever weapons you have just because you have good intentions.

2. These people take on problems normal people can't handle, thats why they're needed in that universe. Take the scene from the first Avengers when Cap is giving orders to the cop. He then says "Why should I take orders from you?" And Cap proceeds to beat up 2 of the aliens and the cop follows his orders. You think the cop is going to be like, NO! You're going to be arrested!

Yes they do things normal people can't do, but what part of that means they should be allowed to do whatever they want with no oversight? Swat teams do things that normal people can't do, but that doesn't mean if you're a swat team member you can just run out with a gun and go fight justice whenever and wherever you like.
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?

So it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if they just decided they wanted to?
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

Xelltrix posted...

Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?

No, but it would certainly be more accountable than them leveling a city block because they personally felt like it.
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I was always torn on this cause I always understood both points.

Super heros shouldn't run free

But their usage shouldn't be a political issue

And for who ever brought up my hero and one punch, everyone's a hero in those societies just it's more of a job and Has a different morality behind it
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pinky0926 posted...

Why not? I'm demonstrating a point here. The only difference between a privately operating superhero group and a normal person is that the superhero group has the capacity to level a country. If anything removing the superhero part of the equation should have helped your argument, but it doesn't. You can't just do whatever you want because you have good intentions.

So they should just stop protecting the world!
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pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

Xelltrix posted...

Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?

No, but it would certainly be more accountable than them leveling a city block because they personally felt like it.

lol...they aren't doing it because they feel like it.
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Why not? I'm demonstrating a point here. The only difference between a privately operating superhero group and a normal person is that the superhero group has the capacity to level a country. If anything removing the superhero part of the equation should have helped your argument, but it doesn't. You can't just do whatever you want because you have good intentions.

So they should just stop protecting the world!

Look how many times in Captain America civil war that they put people's lives at risk and destroyed millions of dollars of public property just because they were having a personal grudge match.

You're being unnecessarily bipolar about this, as if there's no nuance to the conversation. It's great that they want to protect the world, but they shouldn't be allowed to do that in literally any way they like. For all their super powers they're still mostly human. Still people prone to getting it wrong, having emotional outbursts and having personal biases.
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pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Why not? I'm demonstrating a point here. The only difference between a privately operating superhero group and a normal person is that the superhero group has the capacity to level a country. If anything removing the superhero part of the equation should have helped your argument, but it doesn't. You can't just do whatever you want because you have good intentions.

So they should just stop protecting the world!

Look how many times in Captain America civil war that they put people's lives at risk and destroyed millions of dollars of public property just because they were having a personal grudge match.

You're being unnecessarily bipolar about this, as if there's no nuance to the conversation. It's great that they want to protect the world, but they shouldn't be allowed to do that in literally any way they like. For all their super powers they're still mostly human. Still people prone to getting it wrong, having emotional outbursts and having personal biases.

So which way would you like them to protect the world?
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

lol...they aren't doing it because they feel like it.

Okay? So that means the same scenario where they're doing it because they think it's for the greater good doesn't suddenly become bad because the government sanctioned it. And they can also choose not to act, the Sokovia Accords in this universe is essentially just prohibiting them from action without consent, not forcing them into action.
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

Xelltrix posted...

Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?

No, but it would certainly be more accountable than them leveling a city block because they personally felt like it.

lol...they aren't doing it because they feel like it.

Literally everything the Avengers have done up to this point was because their personal egos said it was "the right thing to do", which has been shown to not be an immutable matter of fact.

Kim Jong Un probably thinks that attacking his enemies and developing his nuclear program is "the right thing to do". See the problem? You can't just put all your eggs in the basket of "well they seem to be pretty good guys so far".
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

So which way would you like them to protect the world?

Personally, I'd rather they have no oversight, because that makes for a better story and is more fun. But in real-world terms, there's no way you can have a superhero hit squad that operates internationally with nuclear level technology out of its own personal sense of justice. I mean that's just fucking insane to even consider. That has to be accountable to higher powers.
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pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

So which way would you like them to protect the world?

Personally, I'd rather they have no oversight, because that makes for a better story and is more fun. But in real-world terms, there's no way you can have a superhero hit squad that operates internationally with nuclear level technology out of its own personal sense of justice. I mean that's just fucking insane to even consider. That has to be accountable to higher powers.

What higher powers? NATO? The United Nations?
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pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

Xelltrix posted...

Stark for his stance, but he obviously went crazy at the end because of what was revealed in the final act and that wasn't cool of him to do (even though I understand why he wasn't acting rationally).

Still, registration and being kept in check is what should be happening if a superpowered group existed. They need accountability.

So, it'd be okay for them to destroy a city block if the government okay'd it?

No, but it would certainly be more accountable than them leveling a city block because they personally felt like it.

lol...they aren't doing it because they feel like it.

Literally everything the Avengers have done up to this point was because their personal egos said it was "the right thing to do", which has been shown to not be an immutable matter of fact.

Kim Jong Un probably thinks that attacking his enemies and developing his nuclear program is "the right thing to do". See the problem? You can't just put all your eggs in the basket of "well they seem to be pretty good guys so far".

Kim Jong Un isn't that stupid, lets just put that out there.

And as far as the nuclear program goes, you can't really sanction someone without being able to go there.
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1NfamousACE_2 posted...

What higher powers? NATO? The United Nations?

Sure. And all the governments that are the governing bodies in the various places that the Avengers operate in.

Basically, some sort of measures to prevent The Avengers amassing too much power without accountability.
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