Current Events > Ever notice it's people like Gavirulax who are the real regressives?

(+) Yeah! (+)

1. Take a big group of people

2. "Here are some statistics about them" (nothing wrong with this yet)

3. Use those statistics to generalize everyone in that group as being the same

4. Now that you've generalized everyone as being total shit, blame the reason why they're total shit on Islam (with no scholasticism whatso fucking ever)

5. Turn a blind eye to causes like history, identity, oppression

6. Turn a blind eye to other people citing your posts to justify stigma against Muslims, keeping out Muslim immigrants, turning away refugee

7. "It's WRONG when Muslims say you have to read the Koran in the original Arabic, it's just a shit way for them to shut down anyone who reads it in a different language by saying they arent a true Muslim and they dont have enough perspective to criticize Islam"

8. "You're a Christian/atheist, which means you were never a true Muslim, which means you don't have enough perspective to criticize me for criticizing Islam"

9. I shiggydiggywhat?

10. Call the Muslim equivalent to Jesus a child rapist just for shit's and giggles

11. Conveniently forget every moral lesson about not generalizing and stereotyping people

12. Construe your prejudice as a fact

13. "If you choose not to see eye to eye with my facts (my prejudice), it means you're regressive. Real progressives would scream how evil Islam/Muslims are from the rooftops."

Uhhhhhhhhhh?

Same shit as other people with prejudice do. Doesn't matter if it's against Muslims, African Americans, w/e. It's sick and it's wrong. Regressives.
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No? Gavi's political opinions are pretty agreeable for the most part
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He's cute though so I give him a pass. :u but he's also kind of a slut, so I guess he's gross too?
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lol, how much of your Friday morning did you waste thinking about this and typing it up? Whose alt are you? That's all I really want to know.
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Nah. It's definitely people like you
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YourDrunkFather posted...

Nah. It's definitely people like you

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Pretty much on point there, TC. But people like gavi are merely drops in a bucket.
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I dont always agree with gavi but im p sure hes more knowledgeable on the subject than you.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

Uhhhhhhhhhh?

Your entire post is incomprehensible.
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Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

Oh is that how you're going to try to spin this? You're the only one getting melted.
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Gavi isn't that bad. I tend to give his views a bit more weight considering he grew up under the religion.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

No one is getting ruffled here except you. You ruffled yourself.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

No one is getting ruffled here except you. You ruffled yourself.

Just calling out people on they bullshit pal
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Look at this, a regressive making a topic to call someone else regressive. How many points on the agenda did he manage to hit with this thread?


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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.

Ending a post with a derogatory "kid" makes you look incredibly silly.

"Psh...nothing personal...kid"
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The Admiral posted...

Look at this, a regressive making a topic to call someone else regressive. How many points on the agenda did he manage to hit with this thread?

That image is literally a series of strawmen.
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Tag lol
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.

Psh yeah I'll lecture you.

You're regressive. You're not much different than peeps who take all the African Americans in the world and put em in a neat little box labeled "Probable criminal, unemployed, welfare queen, daddy left him as a baby." Only difference is your box says something like, "Probable terrorist, hates gays and women, allahu akbar, keep away from explosives and kalashnikovs." Same shit different box. You've just got some fucking scars to turn yo skin rough and desensitized you to the truth of how shitty what you doin is. Big deal, I got scars too, I don't fuckin carry around prejudice.
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How come you didn't @ gavi when you're talking shit about him anyway tc?
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I'll do it for the TC

@-Gavirulax-
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How do you @ people? I never done it before.
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Deleting messages Now? Lol
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.

This.

Here is some shit from the front page of r/exmuslim

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/6x3fbo/update_auntie_saw_me_without_my_hijab_on_and_told/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/6xfnrz/im_leaving_in_6_days/

Stories like these are fairly common although not universal by any means. I find that there is a striking resemblence to two other social issues ongoing today.

1. Coming out as Gay to your family
2. Trying to get out of Scientology or Mormonism

The thing that really sucks is these victims are being lumped in together with the perpetrators because nobody wants to take the time to understand them despite the fact that they secretly agree but cannot admit so publicly.

It also reminds me of the time during the Chick-fil-a anti-gay donation fiasco where in people would go into the stores and bitch out the cashiers, some of which who were gay themselves but needed the fucking money to live because they were kicked out by their parents.

Generalization is dangerous, but most people don't really think about this shit when generalization is brought up. It's always "What about the good muslims?" and never "what about people who don't want to be muslim in the first place?"
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He's probably too busy hooking up in a bathroom somewhere to come to the topic anyway, so does it really matter?
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

Deleting messages Now? Lol

I deleted it because I was giving you shit about not tagging gavi, but then I felt bad.
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Yeah there's shit Muslims. There's shit white people, there's shit black people, there's shit Christians, there's shit Jews, there's shit atheists. There's shit people everywhere. Ain't no excuse for prejudice. And make no mistake, that's what this is, prejudice. Prejudice under the guise of "I used to be a Muslim and my shit family mistreated me because I was gay, now my eyes are opened to the truth (read: theyre really closed due to prejudice) and I'm gonna take out my righteous anger by resenting 2 billion people on account of they religion. Fuck them if they fleeing a war zone, fuck them if they trying to just survive, just fuck them." That kind of prejudice is wrong and you jokers are propping it up with y'alls bullshit read on the facts.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

I'm gonna take out my righteous anger by resenting 2 billion people on account of they religion.

Way to totally miss the point.
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-Gavirulax- posted...

Well thankfully people like me and Majiid Nawaz (have a relative called Maagid) know nothing about our religion/former religion - in fact Nawaz created the term regressive left for those who engage in both Islamic apologetics and those who can't differentiate between criticism of Muslims and Islam.

The topic backfired anyway, though I have been rather popular lately (particularly with accounts under 100, even 50 karma). <3

Edit: This phone is oh so fun to type with.

Pretty weak bro.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.

Psh yeah I'll lecture you.

You're regressive. You're not much different than peeps who take all the African Americans in the world and put em in a neat little box labeled "Probable criminal, unemployed, welfare queen, daddy left him as a baby." Only difference is your box says something like, "Probable terrorist, hates gays and women, allahu akbar, keep away from explosives and kalashnikovs." Same shit different box. You've just got some fucking scars to turn yo skin rough and desensitized you to the truth of how shitty what you doin is. Big deal, I got scars too, I don't fuckin carry around prejudice.

Being black is irrelevant here. I don't know why you thought that comparing black people to criticism of an ideology like Islam would make sense.

Even when ex Muslims on the internet or gamefaqs warn you about the dangers of protecting Islam from criticism, you still act like you're more knowledgeable than them.

Again, all you know about Islam is the sugar frosted version. So sorry not sorry about criticizing it. It's current form has no place in civilized society. It need a reform.
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Actually I think Gavirulax is pretty spot on about Islam. I also think he's pretty clear to talk about Islam in terms of written ideology, spiritual leaders (authorities), people (as a collective group), and the church as an entity, and not Islam as "everyone who is Muslim is a terrorist".

Also you know Gavirulax is speaking as a reformed Muslim who grew up in a Muslim society right? Just in case you thought he was some bitter ass white guy who never left the suburbs.
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Lol another Islam apologist.

How DARE people complain about an ideology that's hostile to them and their way of life!

Seems like I ruffled some regressive with this topic. lol.

What do you know about Islam besides the echo chamber sugar frosted version that you consume?

When you've grown up with Muslim family, friends, and in a Muslim community like me and Gavi have, then you can lecture us on how we're so regressive.

Until then pretend like you know more than those who lived the life kid.

Psh yeah I'll lecture you.

You're regressive. You're not much different than peeps who take all the African Americans in the world and put em in a neat little box labeled "Probable criminal, unemployed, welfare queen, daddy left him as a baby." Only difference is your box says something like, "Probable terrorist, hates gays and women, allahu akbar, keep away from explosives and kalashnikovs." Same shit different box. You've just got some fucking scars to turn yo skin rough and desensitized you to the truth of how shitty what you doin is. Big deal, I got scars too, I don't fuckin carry around prejudice.

Being black is irrelevant here. I don't know why you thought that comparing black people to criticism of an ideology like Islam would make sense.

Even when ex Muslims on the internet or gamefaqs warn you about the dangers of protecting Islam from criticism, you still act like you're more knowledgeable than them.

Again, all you know about Islam is the sugar frosted version. So sorry not sorry about criticizing it. It's current form has no place in civilized society. It need a reform.

I ain't protecting Islam from criticism, just from fucking regressives like Gavi. Those shitheads who blow themselves up and put good looking girls in burkas can f off. But guess what, people who generalize a whole religion and all of its followers are JUST AS prejudiced as people who use Islam to disown they gay sons and daughters.

This cover you like to use of "I'm not criticizing Muslims just Islam" is hollow af, can't speak for you but Gavi says fucking NOTHING when some regressive like Admiral hijacks his topic to smear all Muslims everywhere. And besides you CAN'T justify generalizing the whole religion anyway, it's too big with too many different viewpoints and attitudes.
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pinky0926 posted...

Actually I think Gavirulax is pretty spot on about Islam. I also think he's pretty clear to talk about Islam in terms of written ideology, spiritual leaders (authorities), people (as a collective group), and the church as an entity, and not Islam as "everyone who is Muslim is a terrorist".

Also you know Gavirulax is speaking as a reformed Muslim who grew up in a Muslim society right? Just in case you thought he was some bitter ass white guy who never left the suburbs.

Islam has a church now??
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

I ain't protecting Islam from criticism, just from fucking regressives like Gavi. Those shitheads who blow themselves up and put good looking girls in burkas can f off. But guess what, people who generalize a whole religion and all of its followers are JUST AS prejudiced as people who use Islam to disown they gay sons and daughters.

This cover you like to use of "I'm not criticizing Muslims just Islam" is hollow af, can't speak for you but Gavi says fucking NOTHING when some regressive like Admiral hijacks his topic to smear all Muslims everywhere. And besides you CAN'T justify generalizing the whole religion anyway, it's too big with too many different viewpoints and attitudes.

Ok so if you can't criticise a religion based on any of the below factors:

a) what its scriptures say
b) what its spiritual leaders teach
c) what its people do
d) the beliefs held and practised by significant populations of its followers

then...what can you criticise? I actually don't think Gavi talks about terrorism all that much. Most of his criticism of Islam is directed on a more cultural level.
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Whose alt is TC?
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Actually I think Gavirulax is pretty spot on about Islam. I also think he's pretty clear to talk about Islam in terms of written ideology, spiritual leaders (authorities), people (as a collective group), and the church as an entity, and not Islam as "everyone who is Muslim is a terrorist".

Also you know Gavirulax is speaking as a reformed Muslim who grew up in a Muslim society right? Just in case you thought he was some bitter ass white guy who never left the suburbs.

Islam has a church now??

When a bunch of people congregate to practise a religion and then create authorities based on the collective teachings of that religion, that is called a church. Did you think that acting deliberately obtuse would make for a clever point?
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

And besides you CAN'T justify generalizing the whole religion anyway, it's too big with too many different viewpoints and attitudes.

You can however make valid criticisms of Islam if it allows problems based on its structure.

Similarly one bad cop doesn't mean the police are bad, however if the police force as an authority and an entity fails to put measures in place and clamp down on bad cops and allows them to walk free, then it's fair to say the entire police force has problems.
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I think Gavi is scum as much as the next person, but I've not noticed this about him, no. A lot of things he says about Islam are not really wrong from what I've seen and are just his own experiences of it.
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pinky0926 posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

I ain't protecting Islam from criticism, just from fucking regressives like Gavi. Those shitheads who blow themselves up and put good looking girls in burkas can f off. But guess what, people who generalize a whole religion and all of its followers are JUST AS prejudiced as people who use Islam to disown they gay sons and daughters.

This cover you like to use of "I'm not criticizing Muslims just Islam" is hollow af, can't speak for you but Gavi says fucking NOTHING when some regressive like Admiral hijacks his topic to smear all Muslims everywhere. And besides you CAN'T justify generalizing the whole religion anyway, it's too big with too many different viewpoints and attitudes.

Ok so if you can't criticise a religion based on any of the below factors:

a) what its scriptures say
b) what its spiritual leaders teach
c) what its people do
d) the beliefs held and practised by significant populations of its followers

then...what can you criticise? I actually don't think Gavi talks about terrorism all that much. Most of his criticism of Islam is directed on a more cultural level.

Ain't nothing wrong with criticizing. People should criticize. If people were free to criticize Islam would have reformed 500 years ago. But criticizing the WHOLE religion, whole cloth, is purposless and prejudiced. And calling they prophet a child molester is like super saiyan 2 prejudiced. Instead of bangin drums against the WHOLE RELIGION and implicating erryone who follows it, criticize the individual spiritual leaders and tenets themselves.
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pinky0926 posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Actually I think Gavirulax is pretty spot on about Islam. I also think he's pretty clear to talk about Islam in terms of written ideology, spiritual leaders (authorities), people (as a collective group), and the church as an entity, and not Islam as "everyone who is Muslim is a terrorist".

Also you know Gavirulax is speaking as a reformed Muslim who grew up in a Muslim society right? Just in case you thought he was some bitter ass white guy who never left the suburbs.

Islam has a church now??

When a bunch of people congregate to practise a religion and then create authorities based on the collective teachings of that religion, that is called a church. Did you think that acting deliberately obtuse would make for a clever point?

Who the fuck are the authorities who say what Islam is?
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

Ain't nothing wrong with criticizing. People should criticize. If people were free to criticize Islam would have reformed 500 years ago. But criticizing the WHOLE religion, whole cloth, is purposless and prejudiced. And calling they prophet a child molester is like super saiyan 2 prejudiced. Instead of bangin drums against the WHOLE RELIGION and implicating erryone who follows it, criticize the individual spiritual leaders and tenets themselves.

This is a lot of fluff. You're essentially just saying "ok ok what you're saying might be valid, but be a little nicer about it". Is that it? You're mad because Gavi doesn't go out of his way everytime to be specific about what sect of a religious entity he's criticizing?

You know, I think after a while it no longer becomes necessary to say "but not all muslims", or "not all Islam". I'm sure you can agree that when a feminist makes a criticism about things men do, it's not necessary to say "but not all men", because we all already knew that not all men are creeps, and not all men are rape apologists, and not all men treat sex like something they deserve.

When it was found that the church was covering up for literal child pedophiles, we criticised the church. Not because we think all preachers are child molestors, but because we feel the church as an entity and an authority completely failed in its promise.
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Look i get it. Generalizing all Muslims isn't right, but people have a right to be worried about their safety and the safety of their family.

The sad reality is that there are too many radicalized Muslims that commit terrorist attacks and/or sexually assault women, and harbour extreme hatred for the west. Europe is having terrorist attacks and crimes happening almost multiple times a month due to the refugees and even native born Muslims. These imams radicalize impressionable youth to hate the western country they're born in.

People are afraid and demand answers but are only met with deflections like "not all Muslims", which just causes more anger because the issues are being swept under the rug.

This of course unfairly affects other Muslims who simply want a peaceful life.

If the left and right and moderate Muslims can just get together and criticize the radical parts of the ideology, we can force reform. At least that's the hopeful outcome.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

And calling they prophet a child molester is like super saiyan 2 prejudiced.

Pls stop

You are going to get me in trouble for laughing too hard at work.
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Horus_Leftfield posted...

Who the fuck are the authorities who say what Islam is?

Uh, the clerics, ayotollahs, and other spiritual leaders who interpret the Quran and then make significant judgments and decisions on the rest of the faith? The governments that adopt Islam at a federal, state and civil level? The Islamic organisations that dictate and speak for Muslims? I mean even one rank below the ayotollah you have Hujjat al-Islam, which literally means "authority on Islam", if I'm not mistaken.

Nobody is saying all Islam is the same and all people who worship Islam are the same. But a criticism of Islam as an entity is still valid.
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I mean...did Mohammed have sex with children or didn't he? I have not read the Quaran so I only know what I've heard.

pinky0926 posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

Ain't nothing wrong with criticizing. People should criticize. If people were free to criticize Islam would have reformed 500 years ago. But criticizing the WHOLE religion, whole cloth, is purposless and prejudiced. And calling they prophet a child molester is like super saiyan 2 prejudiced. Instead of bangin drums against the WHOLE RELIGION and implicating erryone who follows it, criticize the individual spiritual leaders and tenets themselves.

This is a lot of fluff. You're essentially just saying "ok ok what you're saying might be valid, but be a little nicer about it". Is that it? You're mad because Gavi doesn't go out of his way everytime to be specific about what sect of a religious entity he's criticizing?

You know, I think after a while it no longer becomes necessary to say "but not all muslims", or "not all Islam". I'm sure you can agree that when a feminist makes a criticism about things men do, it's not necessary to say "but not all men", because we all already knew that not all men are creeps, and not all men are rape apologists, and not all men treat sex like something they deserve.

When it was found that the church was covering up for literal child pedophiles, we criticised the church. Not because we think all preachers are child molestors, but because we feel the church as an entity and an authority completely failed in its promise.

Good post.
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