Current Events > Healthcare is a human right

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Malcolm_Caradoc 08/04/17 2:53:07 PM #152:	tennisdude818 posted... Malcolm_Caradoc posted... tennisdude818 posted... Malcolm_Caradoc posted... tennisdude818 posted... You don't have a right to goods and services because that would be a violation of the rights of others who would be forced to provide them at gunpoint. A big problem with fucking conservatives is they pull Orwellian shit like this out of their ass as if anyone's even suggesting it. Are you really that high on your crackpot libertarian ideology you think Medicare for All means holding up a gun to doctors and threatening to kill them. Get the hell out of my topic troll. I'm just calling out the violence for what it is. For you to say that nobody is "even suggesting it" is dishonest, or it shows that you haven't thought through your own worldview. A bunch of populists are turning to politicians like Bernie Sanders and are saying, "make those people pay may bills". You know that this isn't voluntary, and you know that government holds a monopoly on lethal force. Go beclown yourself somewhere else, conservative. You get pretty triggered when your precious moral high ground is challenged by me pointing out violence where it exists. But the theft is only part of the problem. It really is too bad that a bunch of leftists agitated for a level of bureaucracy that has wrecked US healthcare and hurt tens of millions of people. Speaking of hurting tens of millions of people how many are dead right now over those weapons of mass destruction. Still waiting for them to be dug up in a desert somewhere! I guess those people dont matter cuz theyre just Iraqis tho. --- M. <cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted [p:884182352] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>You don't have a right to goods and services because that would be a violation of the rights of others who would be forced to provide them at gunpoint.</quote> A big problem with fucking conservatives is they pull Orwellian shit like this out of their ass as if anyone's even suggesting it. Are you really that high on your crackpot libertarian ideology you think Medicare for All means holding up a gun to doctors and threatening to kill them. Get the hell out of my topic troll.</quote> I'm just calling out the violence for what it is. For you to say that nobody is "even suggesting it" is dishonest, or it shows that you haven't thought through your own worldview. A bunch of populists are turning to politicians like Bernie Sanders and are saying, "make those people pay may bills". You know that this isn't voluntary, and you know that government holds a monopoly on lethal force.</quote> Go beclown yourself somewhere else, conservative.</quote> You get pretty triggered when your precious moral high ground is challenged by me pointing out violence where it exists. But the theft is only part of the problem. It really is too bad that a bunch of leftists agitated for a level of bureaucracy that has wrecked US healthcare and hurt tens of millions of people.</quote> Speaking of hurting tens of millions of people how many are dead right now over those weapons of mass destruction. Still waiting for them to be dug up in a desert somewhere! I guess those people dont matter cuz theyre just Iraqis tho.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/04/17 2:53:57 PM #153:	Questionmarktarius posted... The constitution itself only outlines how the federal government is structured, and what it has authority to do. Rights of the people were added in later. youre right, the constitution sans the bill of rights is even worse, all it does is enable a predatory state to collect taxes and enslave people --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:884182398] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>The constitution itself only outlines how the federal government is structured, and what it has authority to do. Rights of the people were added in later.</quote> youre right, the constitution sans the bill of rights is even worse, all it does is enable a predatory state to collect taxes and enslave people</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Go_Totodile 08/04/17 2:54:09 PM #154:	This topic is new and exciting. Just like this post. <cite>Go_Totodile posted [p:884182412] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote>This topic is new and exciting. Just like this post.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:00:44 PM #155:	OpheliaAdenade posted... isn't it kind of strange that we "insure" human healthiness like we insurance cars, boats, and houses to begin with? :v One of those isn't like the others. I mean, if you don't have boat insurance and your boat sinks... you're out a boat. But if you don't have health insurance and you get sick and die... you're well, dead. I mean you can live without a boat... but you can't live if you're dead. Car insurance doesn't pay for an oil change, but I follow your logic. The problem is that what you're saying can be framed as "the free market is great for goods and services when the stakes are low (shoes, cars) but not when the stakes are high (medical care)." The free market is more efficient and effective, so it's more important than ever when the stakes are high. If high regulation drives up the price of pencils, we can live with that. But when it drives up the cost of healthcare millions of people get hurt. When communists destroy the supply chain for food, the body count makes Nazi Germany seem tame in comparison. I am sympathetic to the fact that there is endless propaganda that says, "before Obamacare the US had a free market healthcare system and a lot of people were left out." However, when it looks like providers of any good or service can raise prices indefinitely without consequences (college, healthcare) you will always find government involvement. One big example is, the FDA makes it insanely expensive to bring a new drug to market, so the government provides patent protection for a long time. The FDA claims that lives are saved by preventing bad drugs from coming to market, but what about after you net out all the additional deaths from delaying or preventing essential drugs? --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884182763] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote>isn't it kind of strange that we "insure" human healthiness like we insurance cars, boats, and houses to begin with? :v One of those isn't like the others. I mean, if you don't have boat insurance and your boat sinks... you're out a boat. But if you don't have health insurance and you get sick and die... you're well, dead. I mean you can live without a boat... but you can't live if you're dead.</quote> Car insurance doesn't pay for an oil change, but I follow your logic. The problem is that what you're saying can be framed as "the free market is great for goods and services when the stakes are low (shoes, cars) but not when the stakes are high (medical care)." The free market is more efficient and effective, so it's more important than ever when the stakes are high. If high regulation drives up the price of pencils, we can live with that. But when it drives up the cost of healthcare millions of people get hurt. When communists destroy the supply chain for food, the body count makes Nazi Germany seem tame in comparison. I am sympathetic to the fact that there is endless propaganda that says, "before Obamacare the US had a free market healthcare system and a lot of people were left out." However, when it looks like providers of any good or service can raise prices indefinitely without consequences (college, healthcare) you will always find government involvement. One big example is, the FDA makes it insanely expensive to bring a new drug to market, so the government provides patent protection for a long time. The FDA claims that lives are saved by preventing bad drugs from coming to market, but what about after you net out all the additional deaths from delaying or preventing essential drugs?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:02:49 PM #156:	Malcolm_Caradoc posted... tennisdude818 posted... Malcolm_Caradoc posted... tennisdude818 posted... Malcolm_Caradoc posted... tennisdude818 posted... You don't have a right to goods and services because that would be a violation of the rights of others who would be forced to provide them at gunpoint. A big problem with fucking conservatives is they pull Orwellian shit like this out of their ass as if anyone's even suggesting it. Are you really that high on your crackpot libertarian ideology you think Medicare for All means holding up a gun to doctors and threatening to kill them. Get the hell out of my topic troll. I'm just calling out the violence for what it is. For you to say that nobody is "even suggesting it" is dishonest, or it shows that you haven't thought through your own worldview. A bunch of populists are turning to politicians like Bernie Sanders and are saying, "make those people pay may bills". You know that this isn't voluntary, and you know that government holds a monopoly on lethal force. Go beclown yourself somewhere else, conservative. You get pretty triggered when your precious moral high ground is challenged by me pointing out violence where it exists. But the theft is only part of the problem. It really is too bad that a bunch of leftists agitated for a level of bureaucracy that has wrecked US healthcare and hurt tens of millions of people. Speaking of hurting tens of millions of people how many are dead right now over those weapons of mass destruction. Still waiting for them to be dug up in a desert somewhere! I guess those people dont matter cuz theyre just Iraqis tho. The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces. --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884182863] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>You don't have a right to goods and services because that would be a violation of the rights of others who would be forced to provide them at gunpoint.</quote> A big problem with fucking conservatives is they pull Orwellian shit like this out of their ass as if anyone's even suggesting it. Are you really that high on your crackpot libertarian ideology you think Medicare for All means holding up a gun to doctors and threatening to kill them. Get the hell out of my topic troll.</quote> I'm just calling out the violence for what it is. For you to say that nobody is "even suggesting it" is dishonest, or it shows that you haven't thought through your own worldview. A bunch of populists are turning to politicians like Bernie Sanders and are saying, "make those people pay may bills". You know that this isn't voluntary, and you know that government holds a monopoly on lethal force.</quote> Go beclown yourself somewhere else, conservative.</quote> You get pretty triggered when your precious moral high ground is challenged by me pointing out violence where it exists. But the theft is only part of the problem. It really is too bad that a bunch of leftists agitated for a level of bureaucracy that has wrecked US healthcare and hurt tens of millions of people.</quote> Speaking of hurting tens of millions of people how many are dead right now over those weapons of mass destruction. Still waiting for them to be dug up in a desert somewhere! I guess those people dont matter cuz theyre just Iraqis tho.</quote> The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 08/04/17 3:05:39 PM #157:	tennisdude818 posted... The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces. A good start would be closing US military bases that aren't in the US. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:884182993] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces.</quote> A good start would be closing US military bases that aren't in the US.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Malcolm_Caradoc 08/04/17 3:08:26 PM #158:	Go_Totodile posted... This topic is new and exciting. Just like this post. Glad u think so --- M. <cite>Malcolm_Caradoc posted [p:884183124] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Go_Totodile posted...</cite> <quote>This topic is new and exciting. Just like this post.</quote> Glad u think so</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:11:50 PM #159:	Balrog0 posted... tennisdude818 posted... Constitution? The limits placed by the constitution have been trampled beyond recognition if we are talking about single payer healthcare. idgaf because thats exactly what would happen if we didn't appropriate wealth from the citizenry in order to defend it in the first place I just think we should stop pretending to care and admit that we don't need it or any of the things it supposedly ensures So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above. --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884183289] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>Constitution? The limits placed by the constitution have been trampled beyond recognition if we are talking about single payer healthcare.</quote> idgaf because thats exactly what would happen if we didn't appropriate wealth from the citizenry in order to defend it in the first place I just think we should stop pretending to care and admit that we don't need it or any of the things it supposedly ensures</quote> So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:12:04 PM #160:	Questionmarktarius posted... tennisdude818 posted... The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces. A good start would be closing US military bases that aren't in the US. Agreed --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884183298] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>The Iraq war was a crime against humanity. I think the US military should only focus on defense, and shouldn't get involved in nation building. I was extremely pissed at Trump when he attacked Assad's forces.</quote> A good start would be closing US military bases that aren't in the US.</quote> Agreed</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/04/17 3:15:02 PM #161:	tennisdude818 posted... So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above. what don't you understand? a free market wouldn't dictate you have the rights that some old white dudes in england times said you'd have it's a bit facetious to imply that it would respect property 'rights' for instance I don't think that's a typical ancap argument but it is consistent with ancap logic --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:884183466] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above. </quote> what don't you understand? a free market wouldn't dictate you have the rights that some old white dudes in england times said you'd have it's a bit facetious to imply that it would respect property 'rights' for instance I don't think that's a typical ancap argument but it is consistent with ancap logic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:37:03 PM #162:	Balrog0 posted... tennisdude818 posted... So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above. what don't you understand? a free market wouldn't dictate you have the rights that some old white dudes in england times said you'd have it's a bit facetious to imply that it would respect property 'rights' for instance I don't think that's a typical ancap argument but it is consistent with ancap logic If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US. Edit: meaning, in an ancap region full of people who culturally lined up with Texans, seizing the means of production from producers would be met with lethal force. --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884184611] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>So you're making an ancap argument? It seems like you are, but I don't understand the bold part above. </quote> what don't you understand? a free market wouldn't dictate you have the rights that some old white dudes in england times said you'd have it's a bit facetious to imply that it would respect property 'rights' for instance I don't think that's a typical ancap argument but it is consistent with ancap logic</quote> If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US. Edit: meaning, in an ancap region full of people who culturally lined up with Texans, seizing the means of production from producers would be met with lethal force.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/04/17 3:38:04 PM #163:	tennisdude818 posted... If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US. yeah, you know what else is gonna happen? you'll also get shot if you try to stop them --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:884184685] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US.</quote> yeah, you know what else is gonna happen? you'll also get shot if you try to stop them</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tennisdude818 08/04/17 3:45:10 PM #164:	Balrog0 posted... tennisdude818 posted... If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US. yeah, you know what else is gonna happen? you'll also get shot if you try to stop them And the outcome depends on the culture. If it's Texas, the commies lose. If it's Venezuela, they win and then starve to death. --- "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." -Thomas Sowell <cite>tennisdude818 posted [p:884185146] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>If by it (bolded above) you mean "free market" then I disagree. This is off topic but absent a big government, if a bunch of commies say "we are seizing the means of production" then they will end up getting shot in a country like the US.</quote> yeah, you know what else is gonna happen? you'll also get shot if you try to stop them</quote> And the outcome depends on the culture. If it's Texas, the commies lose. If it's Venezuela, they win and then starve to death.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 08/04/17 3:51:24 PM #165:	tennisdude818 posted... And the outcome depends on the culture. If it's Texas, the commies lose. If it's Venezuela, they win and then starve to death. ok thats not a regime that respects anyone's rights, though --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:884185487] in Healthcare... [t:75636909]...</cite> <quote><cite>tennisdude818 posted...</cite> <quote>And the outcome depends on the culture. If it's Texas, the commies lose. If it's Venezuela, they win and then starve to death.</quote> ok thats not a regime that respects anyone's rights, though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Healthcare is a human right