Current Events > Women in Arkansas now need permission from men to have an abortion

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hockeybub89
07/22/17 8:19:03 PM
#253:


I'm still not sure why we are talking about men paying child support in a topic over a law that would allow them to force a woman to not get an abortion.
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DarthAragorn
07/22/17 8:19:47 PM
#254:


LinksLiege posted...
dave_is_slick posted...
I just can't get behind this part. Creating a baby is a two-way street, terminating a baby should be 75/25.

The best compromise I've seen is the proposition that a man have the right to sign away their role as parent. Along with relieving them of their responsibilities, they also give away any rights regarding the kid. So if they decide a year from now that they do want to be a part of their child's life, the mother has the right to refuse them any contact whatsoever.

That would be perfectly fair
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super_clout
07/22/17 8:20:40 PM
#255:


time to pass this law in all 50
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legendary_zell
07/22/17 9:57:30 PM
#256:


Sage JJ posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Mark_DeRosa posted...
It takes two people to have a baby, both should have a say and right to do what they choose


LOL

Men are not the ones who have to carry a baby to full term and risk their jobs, mental/physical health, etc. This is a disturbing law.


proof of any woman risking her job for being pregnant in the US or stfu


It's very common for people to have to quit their job after pregnancy, getting replaced while pregnant, being fired due to pregnancy....that's why laws had to be passed against it on the federal level and there are court cases over it daily...wtf is this?
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Rika_Furude
07/23/17 1:01:58 AM
#257:


Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress
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hockeybub89
07/23/17 1:31:59 AM
#258:


Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.
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Bio1590
07/23/17 1:43:17 AM
#259:


hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

Not even worth arguing with people who equate "aborting a fetus" to "murdering a child".
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Lorenzo_2003
07/23/17 2:04:17 AM
#260:


Bio1590 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

Not even worth arguing with people who equate "aborting a fetus" to "murdering a child".


Semantics muddies the waters sometimes. If you murder an expecting mother, you can pretty much expect to be facing criminal charges for both mother and her unborn. Fetus is also a word with context. An unborn baby at nine weeks is a fetus, but then so is an unborn baby that is nine months old and just seconds from exiting the womb.
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ClockworkHare
07/23/17 2:23:57 AM
#261:


ShadowRisae posted...
What prevents somebody from taking a male friend along and claiming he's the father, knowing full well he isn't, just to get a male name to sign off? The state could demand a DNA test I guess but it makes me wonder how early DNA tests are even viable. Google claims they can be done as early as 8 weeks, but 1) they would have to do it and 2) what if the woman wants an abortion before 8 weeks?

Unless they do those things, there's no actual enforcement and any claim they can make for this to try to seem legitimate is BS.

Really no point in demanding a paternity test besides the mother keeping the kid and seeking child support. To which I would agree with the notion that paternity testing in the child's early development after birth should become a mandatory standard. It's just something that should have been put on the list decades ago...

If the mother wants an abortion in the US, she's basically going to have that option available to her one way or another. In most states, she has that as a legal right. And it's not like women are unable to commute to another state that allows it. Some already travel to different countries to get it done (hello, Mexico).
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hockeybub89
07/23/17 2:29:54 AM
#262:


Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Bio1590 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

Not even worth arguing with people who equate "aborting a fetus" to "murdering a child".


Semantics muddies the waters sometimes. If you murder an expecting mother, you can pretty much expect to be facing criminal charges for both mother and her unborn. Fetus is also a word with context. An unborn baby at nine weeks is a fetus, but then so is an unborn baby that is nine months old and just seconds from exiting the womb.

Killing a pregnant woman is not double murder everywhere and the assumption is the woman was planning on having the child. Also, no one is aborting a 9 month old fetus since you basically have to give birth to get rid of it and it can become a viable baby.
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#263
Post #263 was unavailable or deleted.
Rika_Furude
07/23/17 5:45:40 AM
#264:


hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

not her sperm
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Rika_Furude
07/23/17 5:46:16 AM
#265:


hockeybub89 posted...
Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Bio1590 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

Not even worth arguing with people who equate "aborting a fetus" to "murdering a child".


Semantics muddies the waters sometimes. If you murder an expecting mother, you can pretty much expect to be facing criminal charges for both mother and her unborn. Fetus is also a word with context. An unborn baby at nine weeks is a fetus, but then so is an unborn baby that is nine months old and just seconds from exiting the womb.

Killing a pregnant woman is not double murder everywhere and the assumption is the woman was planning on having the child. Also, no one is aborting a 9 month old fetus since you basically have to give birth to get rid of it and it can become a viable baby.

a baby doesnt just become "not alive" just because a mother doesnt plan on having it
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hockeybub89
07/23/17 6:04:49 AM
#266:


Rika_Furude posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

not her sperm

The sperm went into her body and fertilized an egg in her body, forming an embryo inside her body. Her body will develop a human being for 9 months. No one can tell her what goes on in her body besides her. Because it's her body.
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hockeybub89
07/23/17 6:06:32 AM
#267:


Rika_Furude posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Bio1590 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
Cleo_II posted...
No, because he is not carrying the baby

he's still the father and if the mother murders his child without his consent it can carry emotional distress

Too bad. Not his body.

Not even worth arguing with people who equate "aborting a fetus" to "murdering a child".


Semantics muddies the waters sometimes. If you murder an expecting mother, you can pretty much expect to be facing criminal charges for both mother and her unborn. Fetus is also a word with context. An unborn baby at nine weeks is a fetus, but then so is an unborn baby that is nine months old and just seconds from exiting the womb.

Killing a pregnant woman is not double murder everywhere and the assumption is the woman was planning on having the child. Also, no one is aborting a 9 month old fetus since you basically have to give birth to get rid of it and it can become a viable baby.

a baby doesnt just become "not alive" just because a mother doesnt plan on having it

It becomes not alive because she kills it. Also, it depends what you define as alive given the state most fetuses are in when they are terminated.

side question: Do anti-choicers consider babies to be 9 months old when they are born?
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UnfairRepresent
07/23/17 6:08:08 AM
#268:


"Its an alive baby not a fetus.therefore it's up to the man to decide to kill it"


Wut
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Rika_Furude
07/23/17 6:58:58 AM
#269:


hockeybub89 posted...
No one can tell her what goes on in her body besides her and biology.

It's still life inside her, which she is murdering.
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Rika_Furude
07/23/17 6:59:18 AM
#270:


hockeybub89 posted...
It becomes not alive because she kills it

Making her a murderer.
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IfGodCouldDie
07/23/17 10:35:23 AM
#271:


Rika_Furude posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
No one can tell her what goes on in her body besides her and biology.

It's still life inside her, which she is murdering.

hockeybub89 posted...
Do anti-choicers consider babies to be 9 months old when they are born?

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Steve Nick
07/23/17 10:37:45 AM
#272:


Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?
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#273
Post #273 was unavailable or deleted.
Turbam
07/23/17 10:43:13 AM
#274:


I can kind of understand the thought process of "what I'd the man was excited to be a dad!?"

But this is still dumb.
I think that couples should definitely talk about it before making any decisions, but getting a permission slip for it is dumb as shit.
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booboy
07/23/17 11:13:12 AM
#275:


I ran into the situation where my ex went on birth control, insisted on me finishing inside her over the next several months, and then deliberately went off birth control without telling me. I was only able to get her to confess when I noticed she didn't have her period.

This was a professional, college educated woman that pulled that shit on me. It's more likely to happen among the less educated and more impoverished than that. All it taught me was that I would never buy the line again that she (my future hypothetical girlfriend) is on birth control and didn't want kids.
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IfGodCouldDie
07/23/17 11:29:50 AM
#276:


Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?
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Rika_Furude
07/24/17 7:17:11 AM
#277:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?

Why are you assuming the woman has sole custody? The man could have sole custody of his child.
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l Dudeboy l
07/24/17 7:25:42 AM
#278:


Ammonitida posted...
Even in the case of rape, women wishing to terminate a pregnancy would have to seek the opinion of their attacker or abusive partner – who would be able to refuse and potentially block the procedure.


yo what the fuck
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IfGodCouldDie
07/24/17 8:06:32 AM
#279:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?

Why are you assuming the woman has sole custody? The man could have sole custody of his child.

Are you kidding me? His scenario of only paying child support implies that the father is not investing time with the child. So maybe instead of trying to be a pretentious douchebag you develop a little bit of reading comprehension.

Also if the man has sole custody, I highly doubt he was trying to get her to have an abortion.
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OpheliaAdenade
07/24/17 8:11:20 AM
#280:


Ammonitida posted...
Even in the case of rape, women wishing to terminate a pregnancy would have to seek the opinion of their attacker or abusive partner – who would be able to refuse and potentially block the procedure.


dear god.
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Rika_Furude
07/24/17 8:34:10 AM
#281:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?

Why are you assuming the woman has sole custody? The man could have sole custody of his child.

Are you kidding me? His scenario of only paying child support implies that the father is not investing time with the child. So maybe instead of trying to be a pretentious douchebag you develop a little bit of reading comprehension.

Also if the man has sole custody, I highly doubt he was trying to get her to have an abortion.

So you are ignoring all scenarios which paint baby murdering in a bad light? well done.
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Medz2017
07/24/17 8:43:27 AM
#282:


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IfGodCouldDie
07/24/17 8:47:27 AM
#283:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?

Why are you assuming the woman has sole custody? The man could have sole custody of his child.

Are you kidding me? His scenario of only paying child support implies that the father is not investing time with the child. So maybe instead of trying to be a pretentious douchebag you develop a little bit of reading comprehension.

Also if the man has sole custody, I highly doubt he was trying to get her to have an abortion.

So you are ignoring all scenarios which paint baby murdering in a bad light? well done.

Nope, just responding to the one scenario that was presented.

Also abortions aren't "baby murder," but you already know that and are just being facetious.
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Rika_Furude
07/24/17 8:48:35 AM
#284:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life
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IfGodCouldDie
07/24/17 8:51:51 AM
#285:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life

See there you go being facetious again.
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k darkfire
07/24/17 8:56:39 AM
#286:


Women have no right to determine who lives and who dies. Abortion is murder.
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OpheliaAdenade
07/24/17 9:00:48 AM
#287:


k darkfire posted...
Women have no right to determine who lives and who dies. Abortion is murder.


They do. It is their body. :u Trust me, if you had something growing in your body that you didn't want, you would take any means necessary to get rid of it.

Make abortions illegal and women will just find another way to do it. Coat hangers, Halloween hayrides, alcohol/drugs. :v Abortion just makes it less risky for everyone involved. Less dumpster babies.
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Rika_Furude
07/24/17 9:02:43 AM
#288:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life

See there you go being facetious again.

how would you prefer I call it then?
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IfGodCouldDie
07/24/17 9:11:42 AM
#289:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life

See there you go being facetious again.

how would you prefer I call it then?

To be completely honest, I don't care what you call it.
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Rika_Furude
07/24/17 9:13:39 AM
#290:


IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life

See there you go being facetious again.

how would you prefer I call it then?

To be completely honest, I don't care what you call it.

So you're just being a contrarian white knight? good to know
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IfGodCouldDie
07/24/17 9:17:13 AM
#291:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Also abortions aren't "baby murder,"

only if you are a literal monster looking to feel good for ending a human life

See there you go being facetious again.

how would you prefer I call it then?

To be completely honest, I don't care what you call it.

So you're just being a contrarian white knight? good to know

Umm, how am I being the contrarian white knight here? You are the attempting to misconstrue what I have said in an attempt to defend fetuses. Like you call abortions baby murder, you are the very definition of a white knight contrarian right now. Lol. Then you start throwing a tantrum because I won't buy in to your lame attempts at trolling. Good luck with life there bud.
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#292
Post #292 was unavailable or deleted.
Dragonblade01
07/24/17 11:28:11 AM
#293:


Asherlee10 posted...
I didn't read into the article, having trouble loading it. But was this actually passed?

Yes.

The bill, which was signed into law in March and is set to come into force at the end of July, includes aborted foetuses in a rule stating family members must agree on what to do with the remains of their dead relatives.

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#294
Post #294 was unavailable or deleted.
Sage JJ
07/24/17 12:35:59 PM
#295:


legendary_zell posted...
Sage JJ posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Mark_DeRosa posted...
It takes two people to have a baby, both should have a say and right to do what they choose


LOL

Men are not the ones who have to carry a baby to full term and risk their jobs, mental/physical health, etc. This is a disturbing law.


proof of any woman risking her job for being pregnant in the US or stfu


It's very common for people to have to quit their job after pregnancy, getting replaced while pregnant, being fired due to pregnancy....that's why laws had to be passed against it on the federal level and there are court cases over it daily...wtf is this?


If there is court cases daily you can easily show proof
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Transcendentia
07/24/17 6:35:48 PM
#296:


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marc55
07/24/17 6:53:00 PM
#297:


Rika_Furude posted...
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Steve Nick posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Just because a man provided a tiny sperm cell after an orgasm, some think he should have the right to force a woman's body to go through nine months of gestating the baby despite the emotional and physical consequences that could result from a forced pregnancy.



What about the man who has go through 18 years of labour to support a child?

So you think 18 years of child support is equal to or greater than 9 months of pregnancy, 18 years of financial support, AND 18 years of time investment?

Why are you assuming the woman has sole custody? The man could have sole custody of his child.

isnt that extremely rare ?
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Dragonblade01
07/24/17 6:53:42 PM
#298:


Transcendentia posted...
https://nypost.com/2017/07/23/man-ordered-to-pay-65k-in-child-support-for-kid-who-isnt-his/

“There can be consequences, even if you don’t do anything,”

lol, fuck you Stith
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HippopotamusRex
07/24/17 7:11:41 PM
#299:


hockeybub89 posted...
dave_is_slick posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
The man deserves no say

I just can't get behind this part. Creating a baby is a two-way street, terminating a baby should be 75/25.

And what do you do if the woman says abort and the man says no? How do we honor his partial say in a woman's body? Give him a quarter fetus?


The simplest answer here is the woman can override a man's no. But in so doing she needs to have knowledge that the man will not be raising it or contributing to it. That's as fair as it gets. A man cannot override a woman's yes, but that yes comes with full knowledge the man will be no part of it. In the same sense a man cannot override a woman's no and force her to carry it to term. So she has complete power in her no vote, but in her yes vote, she has slightly less power because she has to understand the yes will not include the man once the child is born.
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Samurontai
07/24/17 7:24:08 PM
#300:


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legendary_zell
07/24/17 8:27:30 PM
#301:


Sage JJ posted...
legendary_zell posted...
Sage JJ posted...
Ammonitida posted...
Mark_DeRosa posted...
It takes two people to have a baby, both should have a say and right to do what they choose


LOL

Men are not the ones who have to carry a baby to full term and risk their jobs, mental/physical health, etc. This is a disturbing law.


proof of any woman risking her job for being pregnant in the US or stfu


It's very common for people to have to quit their job after pregnancy, getting replaced while pregnant, being fired due to pregnancy....that's why laws had to be passed against it on the federal level and there are court cases over it daily...wtf is this?


If there is court cases daily you can easily show proof


http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/UPS-Settles-With-Maryland-Woman-in-Pregnancy-Discrimination-Case-330305251.html

http://www.spigglelaw.com/employment-blog/6-newsworthy-pregnanacy-discrimination-lawsuits/

All from within 15 seconds of googling "pregnancy discrimination cases"
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