Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 112: Russia and Its Government's Support for Mr Trump

(+) Yeah! (+)

Republicans are too focused on their hatred of Obama & the Democrats to actually help the american people. That's not to say that the Dems aren't just as bad, but seeing as how the Republicans are currently the ones in charge they are currently in the hot seat.
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/trump-may-lift-russia-sanctions-to-give-cooperation-a-chance.html

I present this article with no comment

SBell0105 posted...

That's not to say that the Dems aren't just as bad, but seeing as how the Republicans are currently the ones in charge they are currently in the hot seat.

Please cite examples of the Democrats being too focused on their hatred of Republicans to actually help the American people, or fuck off with your false equivalence bullshit.
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Regaro posted...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/trump-may-lift-russia-sanctions-to-give-cooperation-a-chance.html

I present this article with no comment

SBell0105 posted...

That's not to say that the Dems aren't just as bad, but seeing as how the Republicans are currently the ones in charge they are currently in the hot seat.

Please cite examples of the Democrats being too focused on their hatred of Republicans to actually help the American people, or fuck off with your false equivalence bullshit.

The Dems are worse... FAR WORSE actually, (I mean, at everything...) at that. Tell me next time a Republican Presidsent goes to the leaders of the opisition party just to say he won and now they are gonna suffer the consequences.
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Regaro posted...

SBell0105 posted...
That's not to say that the Dems aren't just as bad, but seeing as how the Republicans are currently the ones in charge they are currently in the hot seat.

Please cite examples of the Democrats being too focused on their hatred of Republicans to actually help the American people, or fuck off with your false equivalence bullshit.

I don't think I need to sit here and cite examples of the Democrats hating Republicans. Dems hate Reps, Reps hate Dems. It's just the world we live in. There is no need for anger Reg, anger leads to hate.
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JetJaguar posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

JetJaguar posted...

kevwaffles posted...

I think we should at least give TimJab credit for forming a coherent thought that isn't just chirping in with some shade.

So you admit that even when I'm chirping in with shade my points have merit.

Man, that is the poorest reading comprehension I've seen since No Child Left Behind.

You've clearly never seen somebody try to respond to me in an argument then.

No, he's right, that was some startling poor reading comprehension.

First, I wasn't even accusing you of chirping in with shade right now in the first place. Corrik is more or less the prime example lately, but it's a common theme when certain people can't even come up with a positive spin.

Second, coherent thought is an extremely low bar that you shouldn't be particularly proud of. It doesn't mean the thought had much merit. It's a backhanded compliment.
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Regaro posted...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/trump-may-lift-russia-sanctions-to-give-cooperation-a-chance.html

I present this article with no comment

SBell0105 posted...

That's not to say that the Dems aren't just as bad, but seeing as how the Republicans are currently the ones in charge they are currently in the hot seat.

Please cite examples of the Democrats being too focused on their hatred of Republicans to actually help the American people, or fuck off with your false equivalence bullshit.

Lmfao.
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SBell0105 posted...

I don't think I need to sit here and cite examples of the Democrats hating Republicans. Dems hate Reps, Reps hate Dems. It's just the world we live in. There is no need for anger Reg, anger leads to hate.

No, but you need to cite examples of them letting that hatred get in the way of governance and show that they're "just as bad". Otherwise, you're being incredibly dishonest, and you need to be called out on it.
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kevwaffles posted...

JetJaguar posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

JetJaguar posted...

kevwaffles posted...

I think we should at least give TimJab credit for forming a coherent thought that isn't just chirping in with some shade.

So you admit that even when I'm chirping in with shade my points have merit.

Man, that is the poorest reading comprehension I've seen since No Child Left Behind.

You've clearly never seen somebody try to respond to me in an argument then.

No, he's right, that was some startling poor reading comprehension.

First, I wasn't even accusing you of chirping in with shade right now in the first place. Corrik is more or less the prime example lately, but it's a common theme when certain people can't even come up with a positive spin.

Second, coherent thought is an extremely low bar that you shouldn't be particularly proud of. It doesn't mean the thought had much merit. It's a backhanded compliment.

Unlike many of you in here, some people do not like to "spin" shit to try and argu. Instead they would prefer to just debate the facts.
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What fact have you debated since you found out what the source on the Trump Jr emails was?
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The one thing Corrik is right about is that the Dems really don't seemed focused on helping the American people. Neither do the Republicans, however.

Once again, it's time for the Moderate Revolution.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."
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He's not even the one that brought that up!
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i'm not sure what healthcare counts as in that case
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banananor posted...

i'm not sure what healthcare counts as in that case

Or student loan protections, among other things.
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Regaro posted...

SBell0105 posted...

I don't think I need to sit here and cite examples of the Democrats hating Republicans. Dems hate Reps, Reps hate Dems. It's just the world we live in. There is no need for anger Reg, anger leads to hate.

No, but you need to cite examples of them letting that hatred get in the way of governance and show that they're "just as bad". Otherwise, you're being incredibly dishonest, and you need to be called out on it.

Now i do not support Donald Trump, his presidency or the Republican Party BUT the fact that the Democrats have turned away from working with the Republicans and put all their energy into opposing anything the Republicans do is example enough. I do not see any Democrats trying to work together or proposing middle ground plans. All i see is Democrats shitting all over the Republicans.
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I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.
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SBell0105 posted...

the fact that the Democrats have turned away from working with the Republicans and put all their energy into opposing anything the Republicans do is example enough

Peace___Frog posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.

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Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.
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Peace___Frog posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.

So
Since you and your party have nothing to say (EVER) straight to ad hominem huh?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

The only way you can honestly believe this is if you're completely ignorant as to how we got to this situation, or if you buy into the Fox News-esque anti-Democrat propaganda
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EmDubyaSee posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.

So
Since you and your party have nothing to say (EVER) straight to ad hominem huh?

That's not an ad hominem.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

Definitely the left and Obama...

Mitch has come out multiple times both as majority and minority asking for help from his Blue colleagues... and got none.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

EmDubyaSee posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.

So
Since you and your party have nothing to say (EVER) straight to ad hominem huh?

That's not an ad hominem.

To accuse someone of gaslighting is sorta ad hominem.
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Regaro posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

The only way you can honestly believe this is if you're completely ignorant as to how we got to this situation, or if you buy into the Fox News-esque anti-Democrat propaganda

LMAO
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scarletspeed7 posted...

EmDubyaSee posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the success of the right's gaslighting in the country.

So
Since you and your party have nothing to say (EVER) straight to ad hominem huh?

That's not an ad hominem.

It absolutely is. Only on an entire group of people both who were gaslighting, and who were gaslit...
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dems suck
gop sucks more right now since they've got everything and are still managing to fuck up more than anyone thought possible

individuals can be good, but something about lumping people into a group turns them all into shitheels
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this board is great. I remember when we used to have actually meaningful discussion. now its just ad hominems, "you are dumb or brainwashed if you disagree with me!", omg gaslighting!, etc etc
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You need only look at fox news to see who is doing the gaslighting.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

I very much do believe that you have zero thinking skills of any substance.
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Peace___Frog posted...

You need only look at fox news to see who is doing the gaslighting.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

I very much do believe that you have zero thinking skills of any substance.

Fake News is the omen gaslighting he country kid...
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and by great i mean its really kinda sad. its like a virus just spread through all of you and produced this bullshit
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iiaattgg posted...

this board is great. I remember when we used to have actually meaningful discussion. now its just ad hominems, "you are dumb or brainwashed if you disagree with me!", omg gaslighting!, etc etc

Thats everywhere in the centralized internet age.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

You need only look at fox news to see who is doing the gaslighting.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

I very much do believe that you have zero thinking skills of any substance.

Fake News is the omen gaslighting he country kid...

what?
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EmDubyaSee posted...

Fake News is the omen gaslighting he country kid...

Ok, i laughed
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Nothing personnel, kid, the fake news is the omen gaslighting he country.
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Why are you all surprised? Multiple of them have alreasy said everything evil in the world is republican and that anything evil by definition cannot be liberal. Lol
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Bipartisanship is necessary and missed. That said, let me ask this as a hypothetical which is looking true to me personally, but let's stay philosophical:

If one of our two major parties is colluding with foreign agents against America's best interests, is bipartisanship or opposition with the other party the more moral goal? Democrats and Republicans cooperating are one thing, but either party secretly working with another country against our other party is another. Republicans with Russia, Democrats with China, whatever your example may be -- a party with another country against our other party.

Hypothetically, what's the more appropriate direction to go? Bipartisanship or opposition?
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kevwaffles posted...

What fact have you debated since you found out what the source on the Trump Jr emails was?

I have debated whether an actual convictable crime was committed by him going to the meeting and by his emails.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.
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HaRRicH posted...

Bipartisanship is necessary and missed. That said, let me ask this as a hypothetical which is looking true to me personally, but let's stay philosophical:

If one of our two major parties is colluding with foreign agents against America's best interests, is bipartisanship or opposition with the other party the more moral goal? Democrats and Republicans cooperating are one thing, but either party secretly working with another country against our other party is another. Republicans with Russia, Democrats with China, whatever your example may be -- a party with another country against our other party.

Hypothetically, what's the more appropriate direction to go? Bipartisanship or opposition?

The Republicans have already answered this pretty clearly. Opposition is better, to the extent that cooperation with Russia is good if it helps them better oppose the Democrats. Same with Reagan and Iran. The election results show that the voters support this, or don't care.
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HaRRicH posted...

Hypothetically, what's the more appropriate direction to go? Bipartisanship or opposition?

Whichever option minimizes the influence the collaborating country has over our country and leaders. Especially if the other country is one so totally opposed to the USA being a prosperous country. This will probably be opposition in every case I can imagine.

And yes, if the Democrats were working with another country like the GOP worked with Russia, I'd be just as opposed to them, if not moreso.


Not_an_Owl posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.

The Pope is legitimately a cool guy. I'm very much not religious, but I respect the hell out of him
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Not_an_Owl posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.

The Vatican is the seven cities on the hill which will produce the Anti Christ and False prophet... no one should care what they say.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.

The Vatican is the seven cities on the hill which will produce the Anti Christ and False prophet... no one should care what they say.

is this true?
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iiaattgg posted...

EmDubyaSee posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.

The Vatican is the seven cities on the hill which will produce the Anti Christ and False prophet... no one should care what they say.

is this true?

Yes. When Revelations speaks of a city on the Hills (Rome) producing the false Prophet, it quite obviously means Vatican City.
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The Republicans and The Democrats will never get along, ever.

We will never have a government that works for the people.

We will have this divided nation for the rest of our lives.

Global Annihilation is the only solution.
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SBell0105 posted...

The Republicans and The Democrats will never get along, ever.

We will never have a government that works for the people.

We will have this divided nation for the rest of our lives.

Global Annihilation is the only solution.

Only one of them has even TRIED!!!
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The shift in attitude towards Catholicism by Protestants in the US is really interesting. 100 years ago the New York Times (!) printed an article stating that the Catholic Church had killed 50 million people over the centuries, and 50 years ago people were afraid JFK would take orders from the Pope. Now, at least 5 Supreme Court justices (maybe 6, Gorsuch is unclear) and the Speaker of the House are Catholic, while Mitch McConnell might be the only Protestant left in high levels of the federal government. Trump is nominally Protestant but has never appeared to take any interest in religion. Moreover, those Catholics in high level positions are almost all Republicans!
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dems and republicans both have the problem of primarily working things for a select group of people. for dems a lot of what they do is virtue signal to certain minorities or certain causes while often not providing any real meaningful help or making it worse, somehow. that's essentially the way the republicans treat the working class, the people they claim to represent the most. only these guys are actually very good at helping the rich and corporations, figuring that they can figure out how money and expenses should go.

both of them do ultimately squeeze everyone in the middle, though Rs hurt the lower class more and the Ds are too obsessed with acting like good people while not being good at all.


the past 9 months have been pretty good at showing all of those aspects. but they've also shown what republicans are really like when they can drop pretenses and act they way they really want to. fortunately we have a media actually doing its job sometimes and can hold them accountable for making bills that would screw over the people.
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iiaattgg posted...

EmDubyaSee posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/pope-associates-criticize-american-evangelicals-extremism?CMP=twt_gu

The Vatican is in agreement with Regaro: Deport the Evangelicals.

The Vatican is the seven cities on the hill which will produce the Anti Christ and False prophet... no one should care what they say.

is this true?

No it's actually LeBron James.
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Peace___Frog posted...

You need only look at fox news to see who is doing the gaslighting.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like the last page has demonstrated the complete failure the state of debate in this country has reached.

I feel it's disingenuous to state this without appropriating blame, because otherwise you imply "both sides are equally at fault."

I very much do believe that both sides are equally at fault.

I very much do believe that you have zero thinking skills of any substance.

See, now that is an ad hominem. I like the evidence you have to back that up. And your attitude? That right there? That's why I can't support the Democrats. Because you rage at the people who have criticism for you that aren't even on the opposite side of this quite obviously juvenile and puerile war. The only people willing to engage in actual discussion are moderates. The people who don't care about party politics and just want to see things being accomplished. Democrats are problem identifiers, not problem solvers. There is no solution for how to combat the Republicans tide of pointless wedge issue initiatives that serve to accomplish nothing economically. There just is outcry. You are the very definition of what the Republicans gleefully tout on the internet as a "Loser Liberal". You don't reach out and attempt to use rational thinking to appeal to the only things I care about. You spout cynicism and wonder why nothing is accomplished. If nothing else, at least the Republicans are trying to accomplish a world-destroying agenda. You just want to sit back and be right at the end. To hell with the legacy of humanity or even this country. Let me be right!

What thinking skills have you demonstrated? What initiative have you taken to combat the perception I have of your failures? Because I'm a vote that you by yourself are losing for your party right now. That's right. You are such a failure of epic proportions that I am considering just not voting at all. You are a representative for your party and your line of thinking right now. And you are acting immature and embarrassing yourself and others amongst some people who you could easily win over by simply being polite and trying to right any perceived misnomers I may believe. That's where you lose. That's where you always lose.
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Wanglicious posted...

dems and republicans both have the problem of primarily working things for a select group of people. for dems a lot of what they do is virtue signal to certain minorities or certain causes while often not providing any real meaningful help or making it worse, somehow. that's essentially the way the republicans treat the working class, the people they claim to represent the most. only these guys are actually very good at helping the rich and corporations, figuring that they can figure out how money and expenses should go.

both of them do ultimately squeeze everyone in the middle, though Rs hurt the lower class more and the Ds are too obsessed with acting like good people while not being good at all.


the past 9 months have been pretty good at showing all of those aspects. but they've also shown what republicans are really like when they can drop pretenses and act they way they really want to. fortunately we have a media actually doing its job sometimes and can hold them accountable for making bills that would screw over the people.

Thank you for proving why there needs to be actual LAWS against fake news. No longer do you just get to lie without facing consequences as a journalist...
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