Current Events > High Court To Hear Case Of Cake Shop That Refused To Bake For Same-Sex Wedding

(+) Yeah! (+)

Asherlee10 posted...

faizan_faizan posted...

Ridiculous. They should be able to refuse anyone for the most arbitrary reasons.

This sort of reasoning creates a slippery slope. I don't think that our 21st century society in the US should be proponents of businesses practicing discrimination based on qualities of people that are unchangeable.

That is irrelevant. Do you think that might be the only cake shop that was available to them? Besides, why would you want a cake specifically from a shop that 'discriminates' your group of people? There's also the possibility that they might tamper with the cake.
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Something people need to realize about this entire debacle is that building it up to this giant argument is doing nothing but halting progress, ironically.

Most religions, including Christianity, dictate to their worshippers that they should expect to be persecuted, and that persecution will strengthen their faith since only the truly devout will receive salvation.
In these conservative minded Christians' point of view, demonizing homosexuality is part of being decor, and denying a cake is being faithful in their (backward) minds. By making this into a huge deal on a national level, you're legitimizing those feelings of persecution and victimization they have, which just makes them think THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS SAID WOULD HAPPEN. WE NEED TO BE EVEN MORE STAUNCHLY FAITHFUL NOW.

If people had just called them assholes and let it go, it would've been better for everyone in the long run. Population as a whole is slowly coming around on gay rights stuff, including many Christians, but when stuff like this happens it reinforces that conservative mindset and makes it more likely to stick around longer.

I say all of this AS a Christian who is pro-lgbtq rights.
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LotrMorgoth posted...

i've always wondered, being gay myself, why you would want a cake from a place that hates you

this case will be about where do we draw the line between religious freedom and non-discriminatory engagement in society

there are things the LGBT community needs before cake like being able to get housing, not fired from work, etc. I wonder how this case will generalize to those things

They don't want a cake from there specifically...they're hoping for a winning lottery ticket.
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Marriage isn't even technically a Christian custom. It was made Christian but its more like a sale than anything. Or that's how it originated. There was no sanctity, even in the beginning.

faizan_faizan posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

faizan_faizan posted...

Ridiculous. They should be able to refuse anyone for the most arbitrary reasons.

This sort of reasoning creates a slippery slope. I don't think that our 21st century society in the US should be proponents of businesses practicing discrimination based on qualities of people that are unchangeable.

That is irrelevant. Do you think that might be the only cake shop that was available to them? Besides, why would you want a cake specifically from a shop that 'discriminates' your group of people? There's also the possibility that they might tamper with the cake.

>_> I think you're under the assumption that they knew there was going to be a homophobic cake shop and went there specifically. This was out of the blue ordinary day...its like seeing a Muslim family going to Wal-Mart. Yeah, there's that possibility but they don't know they're going to be discriminated against or threatened on that particular day.

One day religious people will check their fairytales at the door and realize not everyone shares their beliefs and treat everyone equally no matter what their book says.
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hockeybub89 posted...

One day religious people will check their fairytales at the door and realize not everyone shares their beliefs and treat everyone equally no matter what their book says.

^ this.

the funny part is that when God says he loves everyone, he doesn't mean everyone. According to all his bible thumpers, God loves everyone but the people they're discriminating against.

I mean, if Jesus were here now, he'd be an gun owning, law obeying, citizen. After all, that's what he is well known for. Weapon owning and law obeying.

Asherlee10 posted...

faizan_faizan posted...

Ridiculous. They should be able to refuse anyone for the most arbitrary reasons.

This sort of reasoning creates a slippery slope. I don't think that our 21st century society in the US should be proponents of businesses practicing discrimination based on qualities of people that are unchangeable.

I don't know how I feel about this. If I were to make a distinction in time period, I'd say in the past is when discrimanation should have for sure not happened, but sadly it did. The options available to just go to a different store was not there to the extent it is now and people were impacted greatly by that discrimination.

With how many options people tend to have today, i almost want to say that if they don't want to provide for x,y, or z people, then fuck them and go somewhere else.
But really it depends how easy it is to just "go somewhere else"
I'm sure there are still situations today where these options are still not freely available .
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Not only does everyone not have a plethora of options, but if we allow discrimination, it will hit some people harder than others.

It is easy to say anyone should be able to do anything for any reason when you are in a situation where that won't affect you.
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dameon_reaper posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

One day religious people will check their fairytales at the door and realize not everyone shares their beliefs and treat everyone equally no matter what their book says.

^ this.

the funny part is that when God says he loves everyone, he doesn't mean everyone. According to all his bible thumpers, God loves everyone but the people they're discriminating against.

I mean, if Jesus were here now, he'd be an gun owning, law obeying, citizen. After all, that's what he is well known for. Weapon owning and law obeying.

Except that hundreds of denominations around the world are pro-LGBTQ rights.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_affirming_LGBT

I hate conservative Christians as much as you do, but let's not generalize. You're effectively acting like the very conservatively you're making fun of who go DAMNED MUSLIMS ARE ALL A BUNCH'A TERRORISTS
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ZMythos posted...

Things that cannot be changed like race, sex, and orientation should be protected over things that can like religion

You can change your race, sex and orientation now. It's 2017. The world is full of wonderful new advancements.

Wat now?
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homophobic couple bout to get BTFO yet again
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I wouldnt support the court forcing an artist to create custom artwork or signage that violated their beliefs, so I dont support forcing a bakery to create custom art for a LGBT wedding. If the bakery has pre-made stock or a catalog/menu of "stock" cakes, they should be "forced" to provide those to an LGBT couple(which could then use it in their wedding). But if the custom art violates the artists beliefs, I would rather not set a precedent that forces artists to violate their beliefs(religious or otherwise), regardless of how stupid/bigoted/etc the artist is(or is not).
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ForestLogic posted...

Something people need to realize about this entire debacle is that building it up to this giant argument is doing nothing but halting progress, ironically.

Most religions, including Christianity, dictate to their worshippers that they should expect to be persecuted, and that persecution will strengthen their faith since only the truly devout will receive salvation.
In these conservative minded Christians' point of view, demonizing homosexuality is part of being decor, and denying a cake is being faithful in their (backward) minds. By making this into a huge deal on a national level, you're legitimizing those feelings of persecution and victimization they have, which just makes them think THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS SAID WOULD HAPPEN. WE NEED TO BE EVEN MORE STAUNCHLY FAITHFUL NOW.

If people had just called them assholes and let it go, it would've been better for everyone in the long run. Population as a whole is slowly coming around on gay rights stuff, including many Christians, but when stuff like this happens it reinforces that conservative mindset and makes it more likely to stick around longer.

I say all of this AS a Christian who is pro-lgbtq rights.

All it's doing is underscoring their craziness in a world where religiosity is already declining.

People like Kim Davis? People like the Washington florist? People like bakers in this story? They're only continuing to taint and kill their religion.

Younger people, many of whom are a lot less religious relative to past generations, look at what's going on and think these pious folks are lunatics.
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These kinds of Christians don't believe a same sex wedding is a valid marriage. By their own logic they aren't making a wedding cake, they're making a custom cake for a gay party, meaning they have no religious grounds to refuse service.
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ollie89 posted...

ForestLogic posted...

Something people need to realize about this entire debacle is that building it up to this giant argument is doing nothing but halting progress, ironically.

Most religions, including Christianity, dictate to their worshippers that they should expect to be persecuted, and that persecution will strengthen their faith since only the truly devout will receive salvation.
In these conservative minded Christians' point of view, demonizing homosexuality is part of being decor, and denying a cake is being faithful in their (backward) minds. By making this into a huge deal on a national level, you're legitimizing those feelings of persecution and victimization they have, which just makes them think THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS SAID WOULD HAPPEN. WE NEED TO BE EVEN MORE STAUNCHLY FAITHFUL NOW.

If people had just called them assholes and let it go, it would've been better for everyone in the long run. Population as a whole is slowly coming around on gay rights stuff, including many Christians, but when stuff like this happens it reinforces that conservative mindset and makes it more likely to stick around longer.

I say all of this AS a Christian who is pro-lgbtq rights.

All it's doing is underscoring their craziness in a world where religiosity is already declining.

People like Kim Davis? People like the Washington florist? People like bakers in this story? They're only continuing to taint and kill their religion.

Younger people, many of whom are a lot less religious relative to past generations, look at what's going on and think these pious folks are lunatics.

You're taking about who aren't even religious to begin with, so what fuck is the point?
Stuff like this prevents some people who could potentially be swayed, from being actually swayed because you're putting these lunatics in a position where they can play the victim. If you put your bias down for a moment and tried to see things from different points of view, you might be able to grasp the concept.
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Apparently Kim Davis has a reopened case against her and a new one about her dealings with her anti-lgbt lawyer.
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ForestLogic posted...

ollie89 posted...

ForestLogic posted...

Something people need to realize about this entire debacle is that building it up to this giant argument is doing nothing but halting progress, ironically.

Most religions, including Christianity, dictate to their worshippers that they should expect to be persecuted, and that persecution will strengthen their faith since only the truly devout will receive salvation.
In these conservative minded Christians' point of view, demonizing homosexuality is part of being decor, and denying a cake is being faithful in their (backward) minds. By making this into a huge deal on a national level, you're legitimizing those feelings of persecution and victimization they have, which just makes them think THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS SAID WOULD HAPPEN. WE NEED TO BE EVEN MORE STAUNCHLY FAITHFUL NOW.

If people had just called them assholes and let it go, it would've been better for everyone in the long run. Population as a whole is slowly coming around on gay rights stuff, including many Christians, but when stuff like this happens it reinforces that conservative mindset and makes it more likely to stick around longer.

I say all of this AS a Christian who is pro-lgbtq rights.

All it's doing is underscoring their craziness in a world where religiosity is already declining.

People like Kim Davis? People like the Washington florist? People like bakers in this story? They're only continuing to taint and kill their religion.

Younger people, many of whom are a lot less religious relative to past generations, look at what's going on and think these pious folks are lunatics.

You're taking about who aren't even religious to begin with, so what fuck is the point?
Stuff like this prevents some people who could potentially be swayed, from being actually swayed because you're putting these lunatics in a position where they can play the victim. If you put your bias down for a moment and tried to see things from different points of view, you might be able to grasp the concept.

Yeah, let's pretend like these crazy, pious folks aren't making people who are already religious question religion. Especially those who are younger and are already wavering.

I don't know about you, but I know of A LOT of people who have repudiated organized religion because of all the lunatics who continue to espouse views that are incongruous with their own.
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As for those obstinate in their religious views, most of those kinds of people are older folks who rarely change their views.

People like them are already dying off.
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