Current Events > C/D - Islam needs to go through a massive reformation....

(+) Yeah! (+)

....similar to that of Christianity in the 16th century or it will forever be incompatible with Western culture, and immigration from Muslim-majority countries needs to be heavily restricted until this happens.

C

C
I disagree with the travel restriction though.
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C about the reform.

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

D. There can be no reformation. It is what it is. If it goes through a reformation it can no longer be considered Islam.
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I don't know enough about it to honestly say, but I think the current strategy of bombing everyone who remotely looks like they might be Muslim is probably not the best way to bring about that.

They have to want to do it though. Forcing them to do it will cause resentment which will only increase frequency of terror attacks.
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QuantumScript posted...

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

i mean...its a religion...Christianity was able to reform. and it was done several years later by normal people claiming this is God's word.

Mr Sandbag posted...

D. There can be no reformation. It is what it is. If it goes through a reformation it can no longer be considered Islam.

^ This. Besides, the peaceful Muslims already outnumber the ones that support violence. Unless by reformation you mean "accepts every modern, liberal, degeneracy that's completely against Islam".
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TheVipaGTS posted...

QuantumScript posted...

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

i mean...its a religion...Christianity was able to reform. and it was done several years later by normal people claiming this is God's word.

Except Christianity's reform was based on the papacy losing power and everyone gaining access to the Bible so they could read it for themselves. How can you achieve that with Islam? Muhammad said that the revelation he got from Allah is perfect and final and complete, according to Allah. So how would you change what Allah told Muhammad?

TheVipaGTS posted...

QuantumScript posted...

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

i mean...its a religion...Christianity was able to reform. and it was done several years later by normal people claiming this is God's word.

As well, Christianity has some pretty similar teachings about doctrine.

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though
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Confirm

ThyCorndog posted...

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

QuantumScript posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

Then what's the solution then? Do we just forever have to coexist with these people and accept their threat to our societies and cultures as is?

QuantumScript posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

idk, muslim albanians, bosnians, tatars and loads of other ethnic groups seem to be doing fine. basically no terrorists or sharia. probably helps those places are actually developed and follow secular laws
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How many times can I put C down in my post?
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Mr Sandbag posted...

D. There can be no reformation. It is what it is. If it goes through a reformation it can no longer be considered Islam.

That's a good thing
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And the Bible is said to be the literal word of God. And now everything's been made metaphor or unimportant in order for it to coexist in a more modern society.

The main thing keeping Islam from similar interpretations of the Quran is not the "perfect nature" of the book, but rather the continued existence of significant governments which propagate its teachings among the people.
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zDonKEY_K0ngz posted...

QuantumScript posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

Then what's the solution then? Do we just forever have to coexist with these people and accept their threat to our societies and cultures as is?

teach people to stop believing in fairy tales

QuantumScript posted...

zDonKEY_K0ngz posted...

QuantumScript posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

Agree with the reformation part, not the rest though

How can it? Muhammad said that his revelation was the last and final revelation, directly from Allah himself. Perfect in every way, and complete.

Then what's the solution then? Do we just forever have to coexist with these people and accept their threat to our societies and cultures as is?

teach people to stop believing in fairy tales

that's usually the byproduct of a reformation, though. europe became like half atheist over the last couple of centuries
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Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)
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Dragonblade01 posted...

And the Bible is said to be the literal word of God. And now everything's been made metaphor or unimportant in order for it to coexist in a more modern society.

People saying that the Bible is the literal word of God is different from Muhammad saying that Muhammad's revelation is the literal word of God. The Bible itself doesn't make any claims like that, and it's a collection of books written by many different people. Whereas Muhammad's revelation is literally just Muhammad's, and its supposedly perfect and complete and final. So you're being dishonest by equating the two.

Dragonblade01 posted...

The main thing keeping Islam from similar interpretations of the Quran is not the "perfect nature" of the book, but rather the continued existence of significant governments which propagate its teachings among the people.

Islam as a religion is not okay with apostasy or homosexuality or secularism. That isn't a matter of which governments are currently in charge of Islamic majorities - it's a matter of what the religion teaches. Muhammad is considered the final authority by all Muslims (save perhaps for some weird fringe groups that are Muslim in name only)

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

You seem more like an edgelord/ psuedo intellectual than anyone in this topic
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Exactly. Not to mention that Islam has been around for a long fucking time. People pretending it simply hasn't had enough time to undergo a "reformation" are being dishonest because for whatever reason it's what their political flavor of choice told them to believe.

How would a reformation (what specifically would you reform?) prevent extremists?
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.
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QuantumScript posted...

People saying that the Bible is the literal word of God is different from Muhammad saying that Muhammad's revelation is the literal word of God. The Bible itself doesn't make any claims like that, and it's a collection of books written by many different people. Whereas Muhammad's revelation is literally just Muhammad's, and its supposedly perfect and complete and final. So you're being dishonest by equating the two.

No, you're being dishonest by suggesting that Christians don't believe the Bible to be an inerrant book. Which they absolutely do. The reality is that anything can be changed if enough people want it. Religions were made by people and they can and have been changed by people.

Islam as a religion is not okay with apostasy or homosexuality or secularism. That isn't a matter of which governments are currently in charge of Islamic majorities - it's a matter of what the religion teaches. Muhammad is considered the final authority by all Muslims (save perhaps for some weird fringe groups that are Muslim in name only)

It absolutely matters that governments support the religion, because that's the only thing that allows Islam to survive without significant change. Without a central society to legitimize the beliefs that run counter to many others, any beliefs will necessarily grow closer to those of the other societies or be stamped out by the march of history.
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the kinds of christians with views compatible with western society are the ones who don't take the bible literally. the ones who take it word for word are the crazy fucking christians that make good christians look bad and we constantly have to fight politically to make sure they don't take over

I dunno why islam wouldn't be able to work the same way, cause to me it seems like it obviously can since there are already muslim ethnic groups that live exactly the way western christians do
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.

I'm fully aware of Talmud. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of Judaism's practitioners don't interfere or even attempt to interfere with modern society to any significant degree.
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GOATSLAYER posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

You seem more like an edgelord/ psuedo intellectual than anyone in this topic

I think edgelord usually refers to atheist anti christian rantings bc it's supposed to be ironic, since they usually think they're some member of a counter culture. Edgelords also get very defensive when they're called out for being edgelords, they might even resort to saying something like "NO U R 1"....

oh lol...
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Very_Unreliable posted...

GOATSLAYER posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

You seem more like an edgelord/ psuedo intellectual than anyone in this topic

I think edgelord usually refers to atheist anti christian rantings bc it's supposed to be ironic, since they usually think they're some member of a counter culture. Edgelords also get very defensive when they're called out for being edgelords, they might even resort to saying something like "NO U R 1"....

oh lol...

I'm not an atheist. Your post just felt very try hard to me. That's all.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.

I'm fully aware of Talmud. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of Judaism's practitioners don't interfere or even attempt to interfere with modern society to any significant degree.

Are you serious?
There's literally a new mostly artificial jewish country out of no where, carved out of her majesty's palestine mandate, through political interference by european jewish politicians inspired by european jewish intellectuals... and is now at least cited as the source for a lot of muslim outrage.
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GOATSLAYER posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

GOATSLAYER posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades even took place. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

You seem more like an edgelord/ psuedo intellectual than anyone in this topic

I think edgelord usually refers to atheist anti christian rantings bc it's supposed to be ironic, since they usually think they're some member of a counter culture. Edgelords also get very defensive when they're called out for being edgelords, they might even resort to saying something like "NO U R 1"....

oh lol...

I'm not an atheist. Your post just felt very try hard to me. That's all.

i think i just got too wordy lol
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Dragonblade01 posted...

No, you're being dishonest by suggesting that Christians don't believe the Bible to be an inerrant book. Which they absolutely do. The reality is that anything can be changed if enough people want it. Religions were made by people and they can and have been changed by people.

Some Christians do, but that's a recent development in theology. It isn't central to any part of the Bible, and it couldn't physically be seeing as the Bible is a collection of books written by many people over long periods of time. It is in no way comparable to the Quran, and the Sola Scriptura doctrine is not the same as Muhammad's claim that his revelation is final and complete.

Islam at its core literally does not allow for Muhammad's revelation to differ or change. Whether or not people want to do so anyway is a different story, but Islam does not allow for any changes or any other religions or revelations.

Dragonblade01 posted...

It absolutely matters that governments support the religion, because that's the only thing that allows Islam to survive without significant change. Without a central society to legitimize the beliefs that run counter to many others, any beliefs will necessarily grow closer to those of the other societies or be stamped out by the march of history.

When governments didn't support the religion, warlords like Muhammad spread it through violence and conquest.

ThyCorndog posted...

the kinds of christians with views compatible with western society are the ones who don't take the bible literally. the ones who take it word for word are the crazy fucking christians that make good christians look bad and we constantly have to fight politically to make sure they don't take over

I dunno why islam wouldn't be able to work the same way, cause to me it seems like it obviously can since there are already muslim ethnic groups that live exactly the way western christians do

If you follow what Jesus taught word for word, you get neighbors loving each other and respecting the law of the land. If you follow what Muhammad taught word for word, you get Sharia law and jihad against apostates and infidels.

ThyCorndog posted...

the kinds of christians with views compatible with western society are the ones who don't take the bible literally. the ones who take it word for word are the crazy fucking christians that make good christians look bad and we constantly have to fight politically to make sure they don't take over

I dunno why islam wouldn't be able to work the same way, cause to me it seems like it obviously can since there are already muslim ethnic groups that live exactly the way western christians do

Followers of Christianity are the founders of western society so this post is absolutely ridiculous and we can safely disregard anything he says henceforth i think. marked.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.

I'm fully aware of Talmud. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of Judaism's practitioners don't interfere or even attempt to interfere with modern society to any significant degree.

Are you serious?
There's literally a new mostly artificial jewish country out of no where, carved out of her majesty's palestine mandate, through political interference by european jewish politicians inspired by european jewish intellectuals... and is now at least cited as the source for a lot of muslim outrage.

I was referring more to interfering with the beliefs of modern, secular societies (since that's what we're talking about when people talk about Islamic reformation), not the political workings of Israel's birth.

If it helps, I'm also not a huge fan of Israel's reemergence as a country.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.

I'm fully aware of Talmud. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of Judaism's practitioners don't interfere or even attempt to interfere with modern society to any significant degree.

Are you serious?
There's literally a new mostly artificial jewish country out of no where, carved out of her majesty's palestine mandate, through political interference by european jewish politicians inspired by european jewish intellectuals... and is now at least cited as the source for a lot of muslim outrage.

I was referring more to interfering with the beliefs of modern, secular societies (since that's what we're talking about when people talk about Islamic reformation), not the political workings of Israel's birth.

If it helps, I'm also not a huge fan of Israel's reemergence as a country.

emergence**
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Meanwhile in Tehran, forty years ago:
http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960s-1970s.html

Questionmarktarius posted...

Meanwhile in Tehran, forty years ago:
http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960s-1970s.html

such a shame that such a gem was lost to people who decided to practice islam to its fullest

Protestant reformation is a sect of christianty. Catholicism is still around and the pope is in the vatican. Islam can never be reformed only broken up into another sect and we have enough of those already.

QuantumScript posted...

Some Christians do, but that's a recent development in theology. It isn't central to any part of the Bible, and it couldn't physically be seeing as the Bible is a collection of books written by many people over long periods of time. It is in no way comparable to the Quran, and the Sola Scriptura doctrine is not the same as Muhammad's claim that his revelation is final and complete.

Islam at its core literally does not allow for Muhammad's revelation to differ or change. Whether or not people want to do so anyway is a different story, but Islam does not allow for any changes or any other religions or revelations.

But that's what I mean. Nothing about the book has to change. All that matters is whether enough people want to interpret it such that it might fit better with secular society. But, as I said, the change will not simply happen. It must be necessitated by some force. The Bible being inerrant is core to Christian beliefs (regardless of how modern it is), but that doesn't mean it can't be interpreted. And it's through that interpretation that change happens.

Dragonblade01 posted...

When governments didn't support the religion, warlords like Muhammad spread it through violence and conquest.

Yes, in a time where violence and conquest was the name of the game. But that won't be as effective now (assuming other countries are willing to put their foot down), which makes the government bodies the single must stabilizing factor behind Islam.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Dude what is with this pervasive and ridiculously shortsighted notion that islam is just a younger version of Christianity? It's like the 20 year old CE intellectual's idea that he thinks is some sort of revolutionary epiphany that despite the two religions being almost diametrically opposed in so many of their most base tenets (and not to mention the DRAMATIC differences in the nature, personality, life and /depiction/ of their respective founders).

Just literally pick up the new testament and koran and open them and read. OR you can literally use wiki.

I won't even make the argument concerning how one religion (Islam) aggressed on the other (Christendom) in the name of the religion FIRST, and multiple times before the Crusades. (The Crusades being the reddit/gamefaqs armchair expert's favorite argument against their mean dad's birth religion.)

Jews don't exactly practice the beliefs of the Old Testament either, so your point is kind of moot.

Jews have a lot of holy works outside of the torah and their religion has sects and leaders that are given a lot of creative freedoms, w regards to customs and rules etc. Talmud is definitely something you should take a look at, a lot of talmudic scholars have said some ALARMING things that are now pretty much codified in the religion (at least by certain groups therein). Please research further.

I'm fully aware of Talmud. But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of Judaism's practitioners don't interfere or even attempt to interfere with modern society to any significant degree.

Are you serious?
There's literally a new mostly artificial jewish country out of no where, carved out of her majesty's palestine mandate, through political interference by european jewish politicians inspired by european jewish intellectuals... and is now at least cited as the source for a lot of muslim outrage.

I was referring more to interfering with the beliefs of modern, secular societies (since that's what we're talking about when people talk about Islamic reformation), not the political workings of Israel's birth.

If it helps, I'm also not a huge fan of Israel's emergence as a country.

emergence**

There, I fixed it.
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When people say "Islam needs to become compatible with Western culture" realize there are millions of peaceful Muslims already living in western countries? Or is this just a nonsensical statement used in order to mask shit-posting?
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Iodine posted...

When people say "Islam needs to become compatible with Western culture" realize there are millions of peaceful Muslims already living in western countries? Or is this just a nonsensical statement used in order to mask s***-posting?

Correct
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tagging Dragonblade with the appropriate tag

Iodine posted...

When people say "Islam needs to become compatible with Western culture" realize there are millions of peaceful Muslims already living in western countries? Or is this just a nonsensical statement used in order to mask shit-posting?

then you look at pew research and find out those same residents of western nations who practice islam also in a large part believe suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified. much peaceful
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Iodine posted...

When people say "Islam needs to become compatible with Western culture" realize there are millions of peaceful Muslims already living in western countries? Or is this just a nonsensical statement used in order to mask shit-posting?

then you look at pew research and find out those same residents of western nations who practice islam also in a large part believe suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified. much peaceful

Are you saying there is legitimate research stating that the majority of Muslims in western nations are in favor of suicide bombings?
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