Board 8 > Tales of Berseria is pretty great

(+) Yeah! (+)

Aw yeah I managed to beat Phoenix on Chaos - did he seriously just revive
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lol
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Brilliant
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Okay looked it up and whether or not he revives is more or less random. Noooo thanks. Turned it to simple and beat his face in. I got his health down to 0 so as far as I'm l concerned I won on Chaos !
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Congrats.

I apologize for the final dungeon you are about to enter.
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oh god the final dungeon is so bad
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Oh. I was kind of hoping there would be no final dungeon and I could fight Arthur immediately.
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Side note: grade farming is really fun. I'm at the point in gaming where I hate grinding but it doesn't feel like that. The grade system pushes you to do well in fights (and do cool finishers) and keep up the streak with more and more perfect wins. And after fighting enough times in a row the game throws a way-easier-than-it-should-be miniboss that you can obliterate for a ton of grade. I think that's one of the main reasons Chaos isn't as bad as I expected - I've mastered literally every piece of equipment I have for Velvet, Laphicet, and Eleanor. That gives you a ton of free stats and bonuses.

Oh yeah, and my standard party is Velvet/Phi/Eleanor/Eizen. Basically never change them out.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Oh. I was kind of hoping there would be no final dungeon and I could fight Arthur immediately.

Quite the contrary. The final dungeon is the worst thing in the game. You will gain NOTHING tackling it blind, I INSIST you use a guide.
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It's not impossible without a guide, but it will save you immense amounts of time to avoid backtracking too much and fighting infinite battles.
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Well. Thanks for the heads up!
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I must have gotten lucky, when I did the final dungeon it was basically a straight shot. I did miss a bunch of the optional enemies though.
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Sceptilesolar posted...

I must have gotten lucky, when I did the final dungeon it was basically a straight shot. I did miss a bunch of the optional enemies though.

Which would be fine if learning your final Mystic Arts for each character wasn't tied to beating each optional boss.
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Sceptilesolar posted...

I must have gotten lucky, when I did the final dungeon it was basically a straight shot. I did miss a bunch of the optional enemies though.

Yeah I didn't have problems getting through the dungeon

didn't even know there were optional things until this post though woops. ignorance is bliss i guess
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Question, no spoilers please - what's worth looking up after I beat Berseria? I'm not going to play Zestiria but I imagine there's a lot of connections? Are there cutscenes worth watching? What about that anime? At the very least I'll probably do a wiki binge.
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I heard good things about the Zestiria anime

better than the game at least
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I only saw the first season, but the anime feels like a superior version of the game's story so you'd do quite well with that probably. Dunno if it holds up in its second season, though.
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The second season of the anime falls off the rails just like the game does, but not nearly as badly. The cool thing about it is that it weaves a lot of Berseria stuff into it, including stuff that wasn't in the game, and does some neat stuff at the end. Of course, Berseria is getting an anime, so not really a big deal.

There's uhhhh....an odd decision to throw in some RosexAlicia shipping hints in, not that I'm complaining. Just seems out of left field.

As for playing the game, playing Zesteria after Berseria is just likely to piss you off, since stuff that "references" Berseria is so weak a lot of the time. Eizen in particular comes to mind, and a bunch of little things that night actually make you think worse of Berseria in minor ways.

I do wanna say that I legit loved most of Zesteria until.....the troubles began. The game's true tragedy isn't that it's bad throughout, its the fumbled potential. Its actually kind of fascinating knowing all the drama around it. But MAN does that game have a cliff.
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I've read about the drama behind that game. Did the director literally make a Mary Sue character so he could hit on some voice actress?

I have a 0% chance of playing Zestiria but I would be interested in seeing the world continue in some way so I might check out the anime. Is that spoiler safe to click...? Haven't entered the final dungeon yet.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqghCW_v-FY

Did they confirm if Ufotable is doing the Berseria anime yet? I sure do hope so.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I've read about the drama behind that game. Did the director literally make a Mary Sue character so he could hit on some voice actress?

I have a 0% chance of playing Zestiria but I would be interested in seeing the world continue in some way so I might check out the anime. Is that spoiler safe to click...? Haven't entered the final dungeon yet.

That spoiler is for.....Zesteria, I guess? But just the anime and would mean nothing to you.
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LapisLazuli posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqghCW_v-FY

Did they confirm if Ufotable is doing the Berseria anime yet? I sure do hope so.

Wow. Rare footage of Oscar not being a jobber. Any chance they dub this?
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And yes, the Mary Sue drama is real. There's a LOT to it, but you have the basic idea of the crux of what caused the chain reaction of fucking up.

And now Hideo Baba doesn't work for the Tales studio anymore! Geeze, I wonder why.

It's so depressing that what could have been one of the best games in the franchise was ruined by Baba's erection. If anybody remembers my playthroigh topic, I'm pretty proud of my live meltdown over a period of 5 hours as the tragedy began, and the childlike hope I had for the first 2/3 of the game.
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KamikazePotato posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqghCW_v-FY

Did they confirm if Ufotable is doing the Berseria anime yet? I sure do hope so.

Wow. Rare footage of Oscar not being a jobber. Any chance they dub this?

It's already dubbed on Funimation's streaming service, both seasons.
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Looking at the sales for Berseria, it seems like Zestiria wasn't the only thing his erection ruined.

I actually referred to the possibility of the Berseria anime being dubbed, but that works too! It's a positive sign.
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Oh, yeah, I don't think anything about the Berseria anime has been confirmed besides it happening. If Zestiria X is anything to go by, they'll wait until the next game is announced to tie in marketing somehow.

KamikazePotato posted...

Looking at the sales for Berseria, it seems like Zestiria wasn't the only thing his erection ruined.

It took months for Zestiria to get localized and word of mouth was POOR. Fan reactions to some of the standout issues involving characters and story were making news sites. It's the first Tales game I didn't buy at launch since Symphonia, only buying it for $17 on sale late last year.

I spent most of that game loving it and thinking the vitriol was just some weird Japanese waifu shit, but...man does it have troubles...INCLUDING waifu shit, just not limited to it. And it's a pretty justified complaint!
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Oh, although I guess you meant Japanese sales and were talking the opposite. It sold worse in Japan, but I think it did better over here than Zestiria by a good bit, resulting in a higher total. Because of the release delays between regions, the sales of each game and how Zesteria effected Berseria were inversed.
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Did it do better here? The steamspy totals for both of them paints a different story! Would hardly complain if that was the case though.
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Zestiria has had many, many major sales......basically all the time. I think Berseria has had one major sale on Steam so far, at least that I've noticed, and it was still 30 something dollars.
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There is no Berseria anime.

I watched the Zestiria anime after playing Berseria without playing ToZ and really enjoyed it.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

There is no Berseria anime.

Yeah, we've covered that.
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I think Zestiria -> Berseria is ideal because Berseria subverts so many things that Zestiria plays straight. Like in Zestiria, armatization is just a cool battle technique to boost your power, but in Berseria it becomes a horrifying thing - "they already robbed malaks of their free will, now they rob them of their bodies??"

But by the same token I'm not sure you get a lot (narratively) out of playing them in reverse.

But Zestiria is a fun game to play so I recommend it anyway. Zestiria on Chaos is significantly more difficult than Berseria on Chaos, if you're into that kind of thing. Also the waifu drama didn't particularly bother me. A lot of people got upset that Alicia appeared to be the main heroine and then got swapped with Rose. But I like Rose better anyway so I was cool with it.
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No offense, but blaming all the controversy entirely on the Rose fiasco is nuts. People upset with that were just the most vocal.

Everything about the plot and presentation of Zestiria after a specific moment absolutely fucking TANKS. Actual jaw on the flower bafflement by how badly it shits the bed. It is very, very clear that they ran out of time and money, and the rest of the game is basically them giving up.

You get a slight glimmer at what was to be towards the very end of the game with an amazingly cinematic boss and a following extended cutscene....and then it's a sad crawl to the climax.
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I haven't really followed the fan reception that much -- I thought the Rose controversy was the biggest thing, but maybe not.

I mostly agree with you about the plot. Like there was a particular encounter (versus Heldalf in the plains) that I thought was going to be basically the midway turning point of the game, but actually you are soon after shuffled off to the final boss, and it ends up feeling like half a storyline. Sorey and Mikleo actually lampshade this at the end when they're like "oh man there are so many places in this world that we haven't explored, too bad we never got to go there"

But I was also not in love with the plot, so it wasn't a huge loss. To me, Zestiria shines in the smaller things: character interactions/chemistry, the humor, the skits, the end-of-battle quotes (10x better than Berseria's), the little conversations they have whenever you encounter a new type of enemy. In all of those kinds of aspects I think Zestiria wins out.
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That was certainly the start, but it's everything around the last scenes with Mayvin where the game truly starts to fumble, ESPECIALLY on the presentation end of things. There are hints before that, like everything around Dezel's end being a sloppy nonsensical failure of a twist, but that was the definitive turning point.
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oh yeah the Mayvin stuff was a tire fire
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As far as character interactions & skits go, I really enjoyed Berseria's. They have a different tone than pretty much any other JRPG out there. The party members are generally not friends, and some barely tolerate each other. If their mutual goals started to differ than they would turn on each other immediately. Outside of Magilou, none of them are humorous, and all of them have a lot of baggage. It's not all dour all the time (Eizen is secretly a huge dork) but overall they're not a cohesive unit, with the sole exception of Velvet and Laphicet together. That's done on purpose. Bienfu has one line later on that sums it up well - "I'd like to say that deep down, they're good people, but....eeeeeeh... ". I really liked this dynamic. It felt fitting for the situation.

Definitely needed more end battle quotes though. There's barely any.
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Zestiria hogged all the budget for end battle quotes
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Zestiria higher all the budget in general!

With the next game being confirmed as the first current Gen Tales release, I'm interested in seeing if we're gonna get another stripped down game like Xillia again because of the new engine.
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Some random thoughts before I play for a bit:

1. I mentioned my thoughts on the party dynamic before - another bit I love that reinforces my thoughts is a small piece of dialogue halfway through the game, where Velvet is getting somewhat suspicious of Eizen. He calms her down not by reminding her of how good friends they are or how they're allies through thick in thin ect., but by saying "don't worry, I'm only acting out of self-interest, and you know what those interests are". It was such a perfect little line. Berseria has a lot of good small moments like that.
2. I've been finding out that a lot of the music tracks I like from this game are just taken from Zestiria. Come on Sakuraba, I was getting kind of impressed!

Gatarix posted...

I think Zestiria -> Berseria is ideal because Berseria subverts so many things that Zestiria plays straight. Like in Zestiria, armatization is just a cool battle technique to boost your power, but in Berseria it becomes a horrifying thing - "they already robbed malaks of their free will, now they rob them of their bodies??"

I actually knew about armatization in Zestiria thanks to Mercs, so that one didn't fly over my head!. Also knew Sorey was a 'Shepard' but nothing besides that. Maybe I would have been shocked at Artorias' betrayal if I hadn't already seen that scene due to the censorship 'controversy' thing making the rounds a while back.

Question for people - think it was mentioned that the Lord of Calamity is a known historical figure in the future (a.k.a. Zestiria). Did players know that they were going to be playing as the Lord of Calamity during Berseria pre-release stuff or was that hidden?
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This dungeon is ass.

Rokurou: "So...the world is round."
Eizen: "How did you not know that already!?"

Thank you, characters, for redeeming it slightly.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Question for people - think it was mentioned that the Lord of Calamity is a known historical figure in the future (a.k.a. Zestiria). Did players know that they were going to be playing as the Lord of Calamity during Berseria pre-release stuff or was that hidden?

No!

KamikazePotato posted...

This dungeon is ass.

Yes!
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That seems like a pretty cool 'twist' then. What did you guys think of it? When experiencing it?

It really bugs me that the final dungeon looks so much nicer than the rest of the game. Could've used some of that art design earlier!
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To be fair, the concept of the Lord of Calamity is totally different in the two games, so it doesn't really matter that Velvet is called that.
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Beaten. Armatized Artorious was a piece of cake compared to Immoniat spamming aoe magic that hits half the field.

Ending is a bit of a mixed bag for me. Mostly positive, but it really bugged me that right after Velvet gave this big speech about Laphicet needing to experience life, he turns into god. I was hoping for something more low-key for him. Traveling with friends, ect. Maybe it would have meant more to me if I'd played Zestiria? In general this something I wasn't as big of a fan of in the last 1/4 of the game. Berseria is at it's best when it focuses on being a revenge story and on Velvet's characterization. The whole REASON VS. FREE WILL thing felt a little too high-concept for what the core of the game was for me. It wasn't bad just a bit of a downgrade.

The way Velvet kills Artorius is amazing though, as are their parting words to each other. And the ending credits hurt my soul. They hurt it real bad.

Overall, very good game. By far my favorite in the series.
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Now you can do the extremely lazy and mostly worthless bonus dungeon!
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I could, but, Stormblood.

Looked up some Zestiria stuff. Zaveid is super annoying. Was hoping for some laphicet/Maoteleus plot but apparently he gets no dialogue? Lame.

I keep going back to the ending credits. That was a pretty fantastic bit of visual storytelling. I think I'd be all-in on the ending if it weren't for what happens to Laphicet...that just didn't sit right with me at all.
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The ending was also a mixed bag for me, though for somewhat different reasons.

One of the main sources of tension in Velvet/Laphicet's development is that Velvet kind of sees him as a little brother substitute, while Laphicet is determined to show that he's his own person and win Velvet over on his own merits. So it bugs me that, at the end, Velvet basically ditches him to be with Laphicet Number One for all eternity. I know there are plot reasons for this but it's still kinda bothersome. He never fully got out of Number One's shadow, at least in Velvet's eyes. To me that's a much bigger deal than him becoming a god or whatever.

The other thing is that Velvet has lost her rage by the end -- in the final confrontation with Artorius she's basically a pure hero. Which is too bad because, like you said, Berseria is best when it focuses on being a revenge story.
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I actually enjoyed Velvet's face turn for that very reason.

The ending is also kind of meant to be bad.

*Zestiria Spoils* Velvet is famously history's greatest monster (which isn't something that's revealed as a falsehood, in fact Zestiria FURTHER'S that narrative), Rokuro goes unremembered, Eizen loses his mind, Magilou and her lineage is cursed, and Eleanor's newly formed order (and potentially her bloodline) become's corrupted. The game doesn't make a huge fanfare about it, but nothing about the ending was really a win at all other than the freedom of the Malik/Seraph, just a better loss.
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I didn't view it that way. One of Velvet's main source of anguish late game is that killing Innominat will kill Phi. She's ready to die, but she can't let him have the same fate. I think it's a great expression of love for both of her brothers. She puts Laphi to rest and ensures that Phi has a future. Any other outcome would have resulted in everyone dying.

Velvet does get some of her rage back at the end, which is good to see. The way she kills Arthur is pretty metal.
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