Current Events > So... The Russian hacker narrative may be fake after all.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Caution999 posted...

CowboyDan posted...

Caution999 posted...

CowboyDan posted...

Caution999 posted...

Although I'd like to say it's fairly obvious that you're butt-flustered about this and my previous posts if you have to resort to personal attacks.

College, while great for many people like you and me, isn't always best for everyone. In no way does it determine whether someone has developed/learned critical thinking skills. Those skills can be learned in a variety of ways/careers throughout life. I hardly believe it is exclusive to College. Doesn't hurt to have the College degree, obviously.

You didnt go to college though.

And yes, of course you can. Reread my post, I didnt even imply that.

Ok genius. I was holding back, but not anymore. Let's make it illegal for people to vote who don't have degrees. Guess what? The Democratic party THRIVES on the votes from the poor. The poor, largely, are a result of no education. Without them, your party would fall. Did you think about that one? All this talk about "critical thinking" and you've done none of it yourself. You should be kissing the ass of the poor - because, if not for them, Obama would have never been president.

And for those wondering: The other day CowboyDan advocated that people shouldn't get to vote if they don't have a bachelors degree.

Bahahahahaha

So, this is the College educated and "critical thinking" put on full display here. Nice.


Sanktu_Vyvorant posted...

ITT: Conservatives prove why they are the laughing stock of most of the world

No, ITT I silenced CowboyDan for good.

Did you? Huh, pretty sure I can still post. Btw, I was laughing because you thought you had a gotcha but both parties need the poor, Republicans even moreso. You're a joke, dude.
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Caution999 posted...

I just ignored him now as well. I've never ignored anyone on this site. I won't even ignore guys who have bested me in arguments.

Let me guess - Liberty University or the Stars & Bars CC?
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

Vertania posted...

Halfway through this topic, Amputation became the first poster to make me pull off my safe space

Yep, sorry I don't coddle or respect conspiracy theories
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Kim Kusanagi posted...

Vertania posted...

Halfway through this topic, Amputation became the first poster to make me pull off my safe space

hurr durr, didn't see that one coming literally 12+ hours ago. Leave it to the quick wit of Kim to come up with something so original.

Amputation has been repeatedly coming into my last two topics for the sole purpose of shitposting. He's made it clear he has no interest in discussing anything remotely related to the topic and is only hear to attempt to piss me off. Not that many other posters ITT aren't doing the same thing, but he's been the most blatant, aggressive, and consistent about it.

right-wingers taking over the internet conspiracy scene is just another terrible result of the 2016 Election

partisan close-minded trumpanzees
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So does this fool still believe in the PizzaGate conspiracy or now believes the DNC altered those Podesta emails to include secret references to pizza to throw Reddit investigators off the trail?
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Vertania posted...

hurr durr, didn't see that one coming literally 12+ hours ago.

Yet you have no problems with using it right
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iPhone_7 posted...

So does this fool still believe in the PizzaGate conspiracy or now believes the DNC altered those Podesta emails to include secret references to pizza to throw Reddit investigators off the trail?

Yep
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iPhone_7 posted...

So does this fool still believe in the PizzaGate conspiracy or now believes the DNC altered those Podesta emails to include secret references to pizza to throw Reddit investigators off the trail?

Sanktu_Vyvorant posted...

Yep

Again, you two dolts would know my stance if you actually fucking read my posts instead of projecting your misconceptions onto me.

In my last thread, it became apparent that everyone here saw the term "Pizzagate" as directly tied to Comet Ping Pong and James Alefantis. I've been using the term for months to include anything related to the Podesta e-mail leaks, because other internet communities (Reddit and Voat) had been doing all investigations related to those leaks in their Pizzagate subforums:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/75381414
(See post #16 and #73)

So no, I don't believe, nor have I ever believed, that Hillary and friends were banging kids in the basement of a pizza place. I only ever maintained that there was a possibility members of the DNC were involved in covering up human trafficking rings.

Kim Kusanagi posted...

Yet you have no problems with using it right

I just explained to you why I blocked him and only him. If I needed a safe space, I'd have blocked 90% of the posters ITT.

jfc this neckbeard topic needs to be trimmed by Occam's Razor.
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Kineth posted...

jfc this neckbeard topic needs to be trimmed by Occam's Razor.

I'm reaching a point where I just cant anymore. These people are insane.
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CowboyDan posted...

I'm reaching a point where I just cant anymore. These people are insane.

You're the one who keeps choosing to come into these topics. You never contribute anything of value anyway, so I certainly won't miss you if you decide to just, you know, fuck off and stop clicking on them.

Vertania posted...

iPhone_7 posted...

So does this fool still believe in the PizzaGate conspiracy or now believes the DNC altered those Podesta emails to include secret references to pizza to throw Reddit investigators off the trail?

Sanktu_Vyvorant posted...

Yep

Again, you two dolts would know my stance if you actually fucking read my posts instead of projecting your misconceptions onto me.

In my last thread, it became apparent that everyone here saw the term "Pizzagate" as directly tied to Comet Ping Pong and James Alefantis. I've been using the term for months to include anything related to the Podesta e-mail leaks, because other internet communities (Reddit and Voat) had been doing all investigations related to those leaks in their Pizzagate subforums:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/75381414
(See post #16 and #73)

So no, I don't believe, nor have I ever believed, that Hillary and friends were banging kids in the basement of a pizza place. I only ever maintained that there was a possibility members of the DNC were involved in covering up human trafficking rings.

Kim Kusanagi posted...

Yet you have no problems with using it right

I just explained to you why I blocked him and only him. If I needed a safe space, I'd have blocked 90% of the posters ITT.

Aww poor little cute trumpanzee wants an adult
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Vertania posted...

CowboyDan posted...

I'm reaching a point where I just cant anymore. These people are insane.

You're the one who keeps choosing to come into these topics. You never contribute anything of value anyway, so I certainly won't miss you if you decide to just, you know, fuck off and stop clicking on them.

Shut the fuck up nerd, people like you are a plague on humanity.
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Nothing sadder than a conspiracy theorist clamoring desperately to be taken seriously
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How about this, @Doom_Art, @CowboyDan, @Kim_Kusanagi, @Sanktu_Vyvorant, and the any of the other shitposters ITT.

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

Vertania posted...

How about this, @Doom_Art, @CowboyDan, @Kim_Kusanagi, @Sanktu_Vyvorant, and the any of the other shitposters ITT.

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

Stop making topics if you don't want people to respond.
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Vertania posted...

How about this, @Doom_Art, @CowboyDan, @Kim_Kusanagi, @Sanktu_Vyvorant, and the any of the other shitposters ITT.

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
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CowboyDan posted...

All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

>implying you're one of the "good men"

lmao

Vertania posted...

How about this, @Doom_Art, @CowboyDan, @Kim_Kusanagi, @Sanktu_Vyvorant, and the any of the other shitposters ITT.

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

Ignoring stupid won't put an end to it
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Vertania posted...

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

I'm not bothered by your topics I just check them out in the vain hope that you have finally decided to start being logical and intelligent
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Kineth posted...

Stop making topics if you don't want people to respond.

I already gave my reason for making these topics:
Vertania posted...

That's why I bring it here. I was hoping to have it challenged. Unlike people at The_Donald, Voat, /pol/, etc., I'm not hardwired into believing everything they post. If someone would actually provide an argument for why findings like the one in my first post are wrong, I might change my mind. But all I get is "lol (source CE doesn't like)," "lol Trumpanzee," "lol FAKE NEWS," and "lol conspiracy theory."

Doom_Art posted...

I'm not bothered by your topics I just check them out in the vain hope that you have finally decided to start being logical and intelligent

Maybe if more than one person would make an attempt to address and refute the material I posted, I'd start taking the more "logical" approach (which is, apparently, covering your ears and shouting away anything that challenges your preconceptions).

How about this, @Doom_Art, @CowboyDan, @Kim_Kusanagi, @Sanktu_Vyvorant, and the any of the other shitposters ITT.

Why don't you all just put me on ignore? It'd be a win-win for all of us. You don't have to be bothered by my stupid topics anymore and I won't have to have them flooded with your empty, disruptive shitposts.

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

FrenchCrunch posted...

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left. You're just as bad with shouting down any opinions or evidence you disagree with, as evidenced by my last two topics. You guys have been using the same tactics against The Admiral too for months, if not years.

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left

if that were the case, our moderators wouldnt even allow people to post conservative opinions

It was obviously fake
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Vertania posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left. You're just as bad with shouting down any opinions or evidence you disagree with, as evidenced by my last two topics. You guys have been using the same tactics against The Admiral too for months, if not years.

This proves that your opinion is entirely misinformed.
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Vertania posted...

COVxy posted...

What's fundamentally unclear in this story, which everyone is alluding to, is how the DNC would have the ability to retroactively plant false Russian metadata after the leak had already happened.

Ok, I'll try to explain it as simply as possible:

1. The DNC announces on June 14 that they have been hacked. The information was stolen on or before the 14th. Someone has a copy of the data stored on a physical drive kept privately.

2. "Warren Flood" gathers the information that was hacked and, on June 15th, modifies the files to add a fake Russian footprint to their metadata. They release the data as "Guccifer 2.0," under the understanding that the original data thief is planning to leak to WikiLeaks. Crowdstrike releases a report suggesting the Russians were behind the attack.

3. By June 16, Vice publishes an article claiming Guccifer 2.0 is a front for Russian hackers who stole the DNC info. Other media sources follow their lead.

4. Somewhere between the person in Step 1 acquiring the data and July 22, someone sends their copy of the data to WikiLeaks. This is where WikiLeaks has claimed to have gotten the info.

OK, so lets get this world you've built correct. Someone has hacked into the DNC - that much is undeniable. The malware's actually on the machines, and the phishing emails were found; the malware was introduced through phishing emails with bit.ly links embedded. They've got the information before the 14th, they've likely had a considerable amount of time in the compromised system.

On the 14th, the DNC announce they have been hacked. At this point, we can assume they've shut down the compromise - they wouldn't announce the hack while it's ongoing, that's IR no-no 101. Their first instinct is to intentionally leak their own data, while editing it to make it look like the Russians did it - except even though they were smart enough to know about the metadata as a framing device, they haven't done any research into how it works and they fuck it up (note that every reputable authority on security in the world seems to have missed this blatant fuck up, or is in Hillary's pockets).

At this point, the hacker then... does what? shakes their fist at the sky and goes "I'll get you next time, DNC!"? Because we've got an entire DNC's worth of data stolen, the genuine stuff, that seems to have gone missing. If Seth Rich was actually a leaker, then there's an entire month's worth of time in which he's done nothing with the data he was so desperate to leak, even though the data is rapidly losing its value after the Guccifer 2.0 release, before he is finally killed, moments away from giving this silver bullet - a silver bullet that he has only stored on hard copy and has apparently deleted all trace of the original documents stolen other than this one physical drive.

As a security analyst at one of the companies who has investigated the group who perpetrated the DNC hack - investigated them from before the DNC hack, while they were breaking into TV5, it's not likely. All signs point to Russia, GRU specifically, and in a way that would make it illogical for it to be anyone else - it is too prolonged for a false flag. In fact, in the way that they use bit.ly, you can use the site's analytics to see some of the parties targeted. All are critical or harmful to Russia in some way. Garry Kasparov got targeted, and all he's done is play chess and say Putin's a tyrant, so what does that say? This group first came onto the scene in late 2014 when they attacked the German parliament, and have been pretty active ever since - are you saying that the DNC planned a false flag 2 years in advance to leak their own documents (helping them lose the election) in such a way to use it as a weapon against the new government? The ones they were originally in an election against?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iqYuFmzqg
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Vertania posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left.

How do you even dress yourself?
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Kineth posted...

Vertania posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left.

How do you even dress yourself?

I can answer that again:


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Vertania posted...

CowboyDan posted...

All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

>implying you're one of the "good men"

lmao

Absolutely
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Vertania posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

you have more in common with thedonald than you think you do

And CE is basically The_Donald for the left. You're just as bad with shouting down any opinions or evidence you disagree with, as evidenced by my last two topics. You guys have been using the same tactics against The Admiral too for months, if not years.

Caution just tried to brag about "silencing" me in this topic. Get a grip.
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Neoconkers posted...

Vertania posted...

Ok, I'll try to explain it as simply as possible:

1. The DNC announces on June 14 that they have been hacked. The information was stolen on or before the 14th. Someone has a copy of the data stored on a physical drive kept privately.

2. "Warren Flood" gathers the information that was hacked and, on June 15th, modifies the files to add a fake Russian footprint to their metadata. They release the data as "Guccifer 2.0," under the understanding that the original data thief is planning to leak to WikiLeaks. Crowdstrike releases a report suggesting the Russians were behind the attack.

3. By June 16, Vice publishes an article claiming Guccifer 2.0 is a front for Russian hackers who stole the DNC info. Other media sources follow their lead.

4. Somewhere between the person in Step 1 acquiring the data and July 22, someone sends their copy of the data to WikiLeaks. This is where WikiLeaks has claimed to have gotten the info.

OK, so lets get this world you've built correct. Someone has hacked into the DNC - that much is undeniable. The malware's actually on the machines, and the phishing emails were found; the malware was introduced through phishing emails with bit.ly links embedded. They've got the information before the 14th, they've likely had a considerable amount of time in the compromised system.

On the 14th, the DNC announce they have been hacked. At this point, we can assume they've shut down the compromise - they wouldn't announce the hack while it's ongoing, that's IR no-no 101. Their first instinct is to intentionally leak their own data, while editing it to make it look like the Russians did it - except even though they were smart enough to know about the metadata as a framing device, they haven't done any research into how it works and they fuck it up (note that every reputable authority on security in the world seems to have missed this blatant fuck up, or is in Hillary's pockets).

At this point, the hacker then... does what? shakes their fist at the sky and goes "I'll get you next time, DNC!"? Because we've got an entire DNC's worth of data stolen, the genuine stuff, that seems to have gone missing. If Seth Rich was actually a leaker, then there's an entire month's worth of time in which he's done nothing with the data he was so desperate to leak, even though the data is rapidly losing its value after the Guccifer 2.0 release, before he is finally killed, moments away from giving this silver bullet - a silver bullet that he has only stored on hard copy and has apparently deleted all trace of the original documents stolen other than this one physical drive.

As a security analyst at one of the companies who has investigated the group who perpetrated the DNC hack - investigated them from before the DNC hack, while they were breaking into TV5, it's not likely. All signs point to Russia, GRU specifically, and in a way that would make it illogical for it to be anyone else - it is too prolonged for a false flag. In fact, in the way that they use bit.ly, you can use the site's analytics to see some of the parties targeted. All are critical or harmful to Russia in some way. Garry Kasparov got targeted, and all he's done is play chess and say Putin's a tyrant, so what does that say? This group first came onto the scene in late 2014 when they attacked the German parliament, and have been pretty active ever since - are you saying that the DNC planned a false flag 2 years in advance to leak their own documents (helping them lose the election) in such a way to use it as a weapon against the new government? The ones they were originally in an election against?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZCZ60gv18
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Care to address this, TC?

http://observer.com/2017/05/mike-rogers-nsa-chief-admits-trump-colluded-with-russia/

Before you attack the source and the journalist, he's a well known conservative, respected and decorated for his agency employments

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423958/john-schindler-nsa-spook-who-speaks-his-mind-elaina-plott

The tongues of flames are starting to be visible through the towering pillar of smoke that is the Trump administration

More and more I'm starting to think we need to add Risperidone to the water supply.
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Neoconkers posted...

Their first instinct is to intentionally leak their own data, while editing it to make it look like the Russians did it - except even though they were smart enough to know about the metadata as a framing device, they haven't done any research into how it works and they fuck it up (note that every reputable authority on security in the world seems to have missed this blatant fuck up, or is in Hillary's pockets).

In this scenario, yes, it does appear that they fucked it up and that nobody caught it or they ignored it. Perhaps the fuck up was due to sloppily rushing to get it out quick. Assuming you're not suggesting that the metadata info from the OP is false (since the OP explained his process in such a way that his results can be recreated or disproved), what reason is there for Guccifer 2.0 to preempt WikiLeaks and add the fake Russian name?

The DNC (according to this theory) wouldn't have leaked it first if they weren't sure that the data theif was going to send it to WikiLeaks anyway. If Kim Dotcom's claims are proven to be true, then he had been in contact with the leaker since late 2014 and, in May 2015, had hinted at the DNC data being leaked during the 2016 election. Presumably, this would mean that the government agencies had warning of it too and were keeping an eye on a potential data breach. I do realize that his statement is a huge "if" at this point though and will remain so until he admits his statement and conversations into evidence.

Neoconkers posted...

At this point, the hacker then... does what? shakes their fist at the sky and goes "I'll get you next time, DNC!"? Because we've got an entire DNC's worth of data stolen, the genuine stuff, that seems to have gone missing. If Seth Rich was actually a leaker, then there's an entire month's worth of time in which he's done nothing with the data he was so desperate to leak, even though the data is rapidly losing its value after the Guccifer 2.0 release, before he is finally killed, moments away from giving this silver bullet

We don't know how much time had passed between the hacker aquiring the data and the data being passed to WikiLeaks. He might have held onto it for an entire month, as you said, he might have sent it immediately after aquiring it, or he might have sent it at any time in between. Considering WikiLeaks had aquired the data for the "October Surprise" leaks in September and has been accused of timing their leaks in other cases, it seems more likely to me that the hacker had sent it weeks before the WikiLeaks release.

Also, the data wouldn't necessarily be "losing its value" after Guccifer. Having it verified by WikiLeaks prevents (most) claims that the content had been altered and allowed Assange to state that the leaks did not come from Russia.

Btw, even though we don't agree, I do appreciate you putting in an actual effort to address this. Correct me if I misinterpreted something from your post so far.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your last paragraph right. Are you saying you personally know which group perpetrated the DNC hacks and have been involved in investigating them? What are some of these "signs" that are pointing to Russia/GRU?

Ampelas posted...

Care to address this, TC?

LOL this is rich.

You repeatedly come in to my topic just to sling insults and boast that you didn't read the original post, then have the nerve to ask me to read and respond to your links?

L.M.F.A.O. No, I don't care to address it.

Vertania posted...

Ampelas posted...

Care to address this, TC?

LOL this is rich.

You repeatedly come in to my topic just to sling insults and boast that you didn't read the original post, then have the nerve to ask me to read and respond to your links?

L.M.F.A.O. No, I don't care to address it.

Yours is from a basement dweller on reddit who's good with photoshop and has too much time. Mine is from a decorated former member of the NSA praised by both sides.

Pretty big distinction.

Ampelas posted...

Yours is from a basement dweller on reddit who's good with photoshop and has too much time. Mine is from a decorated former member of the NSA praised by both sides.

Pretty big distinction.

I bet he's been in a basement before.

Oh look! Now I, too, have a random, made up reason not to read your post!

This conspiracy suffers from the same thing most conspiracies do, which is that the perpetrators need to simultaneously smart enough to cover almost everything up but dumb enough to leave easy hints that hobbyist internet people can use to take them down.
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Vertania posted...

Ampelas posted...

Yours is from a basement dweller on reddit who's good with photoshop and has too much time. Mine is from a decorated former member of the NSA praised by both sides.

Pretty big distinction.

I bet he's been in a basement before.

Oh look! Now I, too, have a random, made up reason not to read your post!

Ampelas is literally one of the worse users here, hands down. He's friends with (possibly alts) JamesX.

Suparna posted...

Vertania posted...

Ampelas posted...

Yours is from a basement dweller on reddit who's good with photoshop and has too much time. Mine is from a decorated former member of the NSA praised by both sides.

Pretty big distinction.

I bet he's been in a basement before.

Oh look! Now I, too, have a random, made up reason not to read your post!

Ampelas is literally one of the worse users here, hands down. He's friends with (possibly alts) JamesX.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^4 karma. ^^^^^^^^^^^[

What were you saying about karma again?

Haha, poor Southcoast09. 2 accounts suspended, lol. You going to get this one modded too, guarantee. You should actually close this account welcher.
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Anteaterking posted...

This conspiracy suffers from the same thing most conspiracies do, which is that the perpetrators need to simultaneously smart enough to cover almost everything up but dumb enough to leave easy hints that hobbyist internet people can use to take them down.

I mean... that's exactly what happened in this one. It's the poster child example of that.

What's odd to me is that it did seem to have slipped past everyone for almost a year. The hobbyist internet people have been going over these files just as long as the government agencies have, yet it still took this long for them to find it. They could have seen the discrepancies in the "watermarks" and not realized what they meant.

As I'm understanding it, the inconsistency that lead to this being found came from each "document creator" setting the default language to Russian, which made a creator-specific watermark. The "Warren Flood" character might have reasonably thought that he'd fully covered his steps by just setting the language and changing the editor or he was rushing and overlooked it.

Suparna posted...

Ampelas is literally one of the worse users here, hands down. He's friends with (possibly alts) JamesX.

lol I've certainly taken notice over the last few days. Wouldn't have recognized before that though.

Vertania posted...

Suparna posted...

Ampelas is literally one of the worse users here, hands down. He's friends with (possibly alts) JamesX.

lol I've certainly taken notice over the last few days. Wouldn't have recognized before that though.

Aww, Southcrud found a friend

It's always beautiful when 2 star-crossed shitposters find love with each other
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Vertania posted...

In this scenario, yes, it does appear that they fucked it up and that nobody caught it or they ignored it.

cmon, really? do you know how many companies have had hands in investigating APT-28? primarily the DNC leaks? Are you really going to imagine that dozens and dozens of professional, top-quality security researchers would miss this blatant information, but that A) a random on r/the_donald and B) that Assange's Wikileaks and Kim Dotcom, two individuals with bones to pick with the US government, are the only parties that picked up on this?

I think it's time for you to step back and look at who has what stock in the claims they're making.
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Neoconkers posted...

cmon, really? do you know how many companies have had hands in investigating APT-28? primarily the DNC leaks? Are you really going to imagine that dozens and dozens of professional, top-quality security researchers would miss this blatant information, but that A) a random on r/the_donald and B) that Assange's Wikileaks and Kim Dotcom, two individuals with bones to pick with the US government, are the only parties that picked up on this?

First off, I wasn't claiming that Assange or Kim picked up on it either. Just that, in this scenario, Assange got the data from a source independent of the Guccifer 2.0 leak.

What I'm left questioning is, if all those professional researchers did find this information, why wasn't the narrative that "Guccifer 2.0 was a Russian hacker" shut down on the spot? Was it that they tried to denounce that claim, but it was already spread too widely throughout the media to retract? Was it that they knew it and didn't say anything? Or are you claiming that Guccifer 2.0 actually is a Russian agent and added the name of a dead Soviet using "Warren Flood's" registration?

Suparna posted...

Vertania posted...

Ampelas posted...

Yours is from a basement dweller on reddit who's good with photoshop and has too much time. Mine is from a decorated former member of the NSA praised by both sides.

Pretty big distinction.

I bet he's been in a basement before.

Oh look! Now I, too, have a random, made up reason not to read your post!

Ampelas is literally one of the worse users here, hands down. He's friends with (possibly alts) JamesX.

Wow, I guess I really triggered you, Southcoast. Please accept my apologies.