Board 8 > Liberals shut down Mexican restaurant because it's owned by white guy

(+) Yeah! (+)

IronmikeC posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

IronmikeC posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

IronmikeC posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Crossley posted...

If my family were in trouble and if I could help them by illegally emigrating, I'd do it. But if I got caught and booted out, I'd be personally unhappy, but I'd also feel, "fair, next." I didn't have a right to be there to begin with.

This is the hard definition of a priveleged statement. You have no idea what would be going through your head in that actual situation.

Hard to have a definition for a thing that doesn't exist....

we have definitions for lots of things that don't exist

you can look up "dragon" in a dictionary and find a definition

Dragons existed in the Bible...

You should have probably used like a Griffon or something. That really didn't exist.

Dragon was perfectly valid, along with a shit ton of other things in the bible that have never existed like angels and demons and a leviathan and adam/eve and probably lots more that I can't recall at the moment.

All of those exist.

You say that but I know for a fact you don't actually believe it.
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1,000% on all of them. (Dragon and Leviathan are probably the same thing)

I'm Hispanic but rarely admit it - there's Mexican, Spanish, and Italian blood in me. Aside from the color of my skin and the fact that I do have Mexican blood in me, I'm basically a white guy in terms of a lot of things.

I don't speak or understand Spanish beyond saying "no hablo Espanol" ("I do not speak Spanish"), I dislike most of the "authentic" food, I don't participate in any cultural activities (and can't stand when they're forced upon me, especially when someone says I should be into it because of my ethnicity), and I don't even really like tacos or burritos. I prefer burgers, hot dogs, and pizza. And if you're wondering, I am against illegal immigration (but I did not vote for Trump, I voted for Johnson). My parents and I were born in the LA area and I have no family in Mexico. My US passport says my nationality is "American" and not anything else.

Now my question is: Am I "appropriating" "white culture" due to not fitting stereotypes? Should I eat more burritos instead of burgers? Stop speaking English and learn and speak Spanish (and the Mexican dialect at that) instead? Join a mariachi band and wear a sombrero?

Or wait, if I do those things, am I "appropriating" Mexican culture because I'm American? Also, if I were to go to Mexico, guess what, they would see me as an American and reject me culturally. It's happened to "Americanized" people that try to get back into "their culture."

What's my point? This "cultural appropriation" nonsense seems more like a way to enforce certain stereotypes more than anything and prevent people from engaging in cultures different than their own. If we're really going to make race and ethnicity irrelevant, we need to let people enjoy whatever culture they want as long as it is given respect, regardless of their genetics. I fail to see how white women having a Mexican restaurant is a bad thing at all, and it's not like they opened it in Mexico - it's in Portland, closer to Canada than Mexico. I say we let them have their business, they did nothing to disrespect Mexican culture. They are respecting it, wanting to bring a taste that they enjoyed to Portland. The fact that they happened to be born white should be irrelevant.
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IronmikeC posted...

Dragons existed in the Bible...

Those dumbass egyptians probably saw a flying squirrel and thought it was a fire breathing monster
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Now my question is: Am I "appropriating" "white culture" due to not fitting stereotypes?

Yes. You are also appropriating white culture by speaking English. How dare you.
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so MWC is ken ham, apparently.
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OliviaTremor posted...

Now my question is: Am I "appropriating" "white culture" due to not fitting stereotypes?

Yes. You are also appropriating white culture by speaking English. How dare you.

Oh shit, I'm sorry.
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Zachnorn posted...

OliviaTremor posted...

Now my question is: Am I "appropriating" "white culture" due to not fitting stereotypes?

Yes. You are also appropriating white culture by speaking English. How dare you.

Oh shit, I'm sorry.

Sorry for what?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

so MWC is ken ham, apparently.

No.

There are 2 creatiOn counts in the Bible. I believe Adam and Eve existed 6,000 years ago. Humanity and the earth are far older.

humanity is older than Adam and Eve?
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foolm0r0n posted...

Then prioritize the biggest group

What's your reason for wanting to limit illegal immigration? Just for the sake of it? For some superficial pride in the US nationalization process? Obviously not, it's because they fuck up the economy for you and me and all citizens.

So then, prioritize attacking the biggest group that is causing 99.9% of the actual problem of the fucked up economy: US government corporatists. Not the 0.01% difference that illegals make. That just makes sense doesn't it?

I like this point a lot.

If your underpinning reason for a vehement stance on immigration reform is the economy then you should be just as focused if not MORE focused on the other economic issues that have a much larger impact on the economy.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

humanity is older than Adam and Eve?

Yes.

After Cain killed Able he went and lived with the people in the Land of Nod.... iIf they were the first family ever, where would these people have come from?

IronmikeC posted...

If they were the first family ever, where would these people have come from?

Heretic!
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

humanity is older than Adam and Eve?

Well all living human's most recent common ancestor is younger than humanity so as long as you're okay with saying there were other humans during the time of Adam and Eve and we are just all the descendants of them it isn't something hard to believe.

Of course the science is a bit more complicated than that...
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charmander6000 posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

humanity is older than Adam and Eve?

Well all living human's most recent common ancestor is younger than humanity so as long as you're okay with saying there were other humans during the time of Adam and Eve and we are just all the descendants of them it isn't something hard to believe.

Of course the science is a bit more complicated than that...

Exactly. The great Deluge killed off all except 8 people on Earth. All of which were direct descendent soft Adam through Seth...

but what's the point of Adam and Eve if they're not the first people? There were other women before God made Eve out of Adam's rib? Were they also made from ribs?
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

but what's the point of Adam and Eve if they're not the first people? There were other women before God made Eve out of Adam's rib? Were they also made from ribs?

The ones he favored above others. And the line of which Christ would come through. The rest of the humans didn't get to live in Eden with God.

IronmikeC posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

but what's the point of Adam and Eve if they're not the first people? There were other women before God made Eve out of Adam's rib? Were they also made from ribs?

The ones he favored above others. And the line of which Christ would come through. The rest of the humans didn't get to live in Eden with God.

Look at this liebrul propaganda
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Zachnorn posted...

Now my question is: Am I "appropriating" "white culture" due to not fitting stereotypes? Should I eat more burritos instead of burgers? Stop speaking English and learn and speak Spanish (and the Mexican dialect at that) instead? Join a mariachi band and wear a sombrero?

Or wait, if I do those things, am I "appropriating" Mexican culture because I'm American? Also, if I were to go to Mexico, guess what, they would see me as an American and reject me culturally. It's happened to "Americanized" people that try to get back into "their culture."

Choosing to eat burritos is not cultural appropriation. None of that is cultural appropriation.

I'll admit I get confused by cultural appropriation all the time, so I'm maybe not the best person to definitively say what is and isn't cultural appropriation. But the way it has been explained to me:

Sharing is good
Taking is bad (Specifically, taking just to make profit)


Classic example of cultural appropriation...Iggy Azalea. Now, hearing her first on the radio, I liked her, assumed she was an African American rapper, thought she was pretty good. Nope, she's Australian, this is what she really sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2vP0ZQhA2M

She fakes her accent and her speaking style when she's doing music to sound African American, cause it makes her more money. Just for contrast, this is the voice she fakes when making music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zR6ROjoOX0

And like...to be clear, there are poor white people with exactly that accent and that way of speaking in America; hopefully nobody would be bothered if one of them started rapping in that style. But Iggy Azalea who is clearly faking it just to make money? Yeah, there are people on the internet who are pissed. (Mostly African Americans).

(Personally, I listen to Iggy. I find her catchy, and just don't think too hard about the morals behind faking an accent and a dialect. TBH listen to bands who have done much worse things, like beating their spouse, so it's not like I'm going to boycott a musician over cultural appropriation. I can understand why some people don't like her, though).
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

but what's the point of Adam and Eve if they're not the first people? There were other women before God made Eve out of Adam's rib? Were they also made from ribs?

well, verse 1:27 of genesis is this:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and god creates adam and eve in chapter 2 of genesis. so if you take the bible literally, adam and eve aren't the first people he creates, even if you don't follow MWC's theory.
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IronmikeC posted...

After Cain killed Able he went and lived with the people in the Land of Nod.... iIf they were the first family ever, where would these people have come from?

does genesis actually say there are people in nod when he goes there, other than cain's wife? i can't find it.

and no, it doesn't specify where cain's wife comes from. according to apocrypha she's another child of adam and eve (meaning that she's both cain's wife and sister), though.
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IronmikeC posted...

If they were the first family ever, where would these people have come from?

Adam and Eve lived for a super long time and had a ton of kids that left Eden and populated the world. Cain and Abel came later.
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This "cultural appropriation" thing is getting out of hand. And stupid.

I know it exists in some extreme or tasteless cases, but people are crying wolf way too much, and basically demanding cultural segregation. Come on, JFC.
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IronmikeC posted...

1,000% on all of them. (Dragon and Leviathan are probably the same thing)

This is a lie
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IronmikeC posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

so MWC is ken ham, apparently.

No.

There are 2 creatiOn counts in the Bible. I believe Adam and Eve existed 6,000 years ago. Humanity and the earth are far older.

Ridiculous
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IronmikeC posted...

charmander6000 posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

humanity is older than Adam and Eve?

Well all living human's most recent common ancestor is younger than humanity so as long as you're okay with saying there were other humans during the time of Adam and Eve and we are just all the descendants of them it isn't something hard to believe.

Of course the science is a bit more complicated than that...

Exactly. The great Deluge killed off all except 8 people on Earth. All of which were direct descendent soft Adam through Seth...

Science has already proven that the deluge occurred in an isolate region. There was a massive inland lake and it was flooded due to rising sea levels and is now the black sea. Various civilizations had to up and leave the area. Mineral, sediment and fossil samples have confirmed all of this. Not even close to worldwide, still massive scale though. It would be like one of the great lakes flooding and half of Michigan being permanently underwater afterward.
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pfft get your science out of here. it ain't got nothin' on the holy bible.
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Johnbobb posted...

Heatstreet links aren't worth clicking

I will say, however, that by far the best burrito place in my city is run by a 90% white staff

Twitter sources from randomd arent much better tbqh
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It is strange to me that people criticize musicians like Elvis for appropriating another cultures music but we also look back on baroque composers and call them racist for refusing to appropriate other cultures music.

Seginustemple posted...

It is strange to me that people criticize musicians like Elvis for appropriating another cultures music but we also look back on baroque composers and call them racist for refusing to appropriate other cultures music.

Elvis may have appropriated black music, but imo he was beaten soundly by Michael Jackson in Epic Rap battles so I'd say that breaks him even.
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I just bought sushi from a grocery store made on-site by a Mexican guy. This awful cultural appropriator needs to be stopped.

Zachnorn posted...

I appreciate your effort to explain it to me, but I still don't get it.

I've heard similar criticism for Eminem and Macklemore because they're both white rappers. I've even heard criticism that Elvis was appropriating because rock and roll apparently used to be "black music" as well. I still don't get how Iggy Azalea, Eminem, Macklemore, or Elvis are doing anything wrong because they happen to be white people that are making music that is/was music more often performed by non-white people.

I get that the difference between those singers and Iggy Azalea is that her rapping voice is more like that of an African American woman, as you said - I also thought the same and was surprised when I learned she was a white Australian. I don't see why it's negative. She just adopted a certain music style that she likes, she can do a certain sound with it that doesn't sound bad (obviously subjective, but she's popular), and she's been successful with it.

I don't see it as any different than any non-white person (of whatever ethnicity) singing something stereotypically sung by white non-Hispanic people. Sometimes such people are celebrated for not letting their race or ethnicity define them. Why should that be any different for Iggy Azalea, Eminem, Macklemore, Elvis, or some white girls that wanted to have a Mexican restaurant?

I'm still completely lost.

Again, I'm the wrong person to answer this because my culture has never been appropriated but...

But Elvis specifically was more complicated. Was he guilty of cultural appropriation? Well...possibly...but he also encouraged a lot of mixing and blending of cultures in a society that was extremely segregated at the time. He successfully acted like a gateway drug getting white kids to listen to black artists, which, in the 50s, was actually a big deal. Elvis' net legacy was almost certainly to reduce racism and encourage more mixing, which was very much what America needed in the 50s. You really can't say that if Elvis wasn't around that a black artist might have gotten his financial success; in fact, in all likelihood, without Elvis, fewer kids would listen to rock and roll, and Black artists would make less money.


On cultural appropriation specifically--it's only an issue if there is a larger social trend.

In the 50s, rock and roll was almost exclusively black music. Then people like Buddy Holly and Elvis came along, teen white girls found them attractive, Holly/Elvis became much more popular than their black counterparts, and by the 80s, most of the successful rock and roll artists making large amounts of money were white. Rap music seems to be on somewhat of a similar trajectory, where it was almost all black in the 80s, and a mix now. In 20 years, maybe most popular rap artists will be white. No individual artist is necessarily at fault. Some artists arguably have a net positive impact (Elvis). But the trend frustrates people.

For contrast, nobody is really bothered by Takeo Ischi, the Japanese Yodeler. He idolized legendary yodeler Franzl Lang growing up, moved to Switzerland, became Lang's apprentice, etc. Why are people not bothered by this? Because it's not like Japanese people are taking over yodelling, they're not scooping up 90% of yodelling record deals. Also, Lang took Takeo Ischi under his wing. It was very much in the realm of "sharing" not "taking".

Incidentally, Takeo Ischi is pretty great so I'll link him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miomuSGoPzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppm5_AGtbTo
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The chickens in my yard approve both those songs.
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Behindthecurve posted...

I just bought sushi from a grocery store made on-site by a Mexican guy. This awful cultural appropriator needs to be stopped.

who the hell buys grocery store sushi
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VintageGin posted...

who the hell buys grocery store sushi

Convenience store sushi is where it's at
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metroid composite posted...

Again, I'm the wrong person to answer this because my culture has never been appropriated but...

But Elvis specifically was more complicated. Was he guilty of cultural appropriation? Well...possibly...but he also encouraged a lot of mixing and blending of cultures in a society that was extremely segregated at the time. He successfully acted like a gateway drug getting white kids to listen to black artists, which, in the 50s, was actually a big deal. Elvis' net legacy was almost certainly to reduce racism and encourage more mixing, which was very much what America needed in the 50s. You really can't say that if Elvis wasn't around that a black artist might have gotten his financial success; in fact, in all likelihood, without Elvis, fewer kids would listen to rock and roll, and Black artists would make less money.


On cultural appropriation specifically--it's only an issue if there is a larger social trend.

In the 50s, rock and roll was almost exclusively black music. Then people like Buddy Holly and Elvis came along, teen white girls found them attractive, Holly/Elvis became much more popular than their black counterparts, and by the 80s, most of the successful rock and roll artists making large amounts of money were white. Rap music seems to be on somewhat of a similar trajectory, where it was almost all black in the 80s, and a mix now. In 20 years, maybe most popular rap artists will be white. No individual artist is necessarily at fault. Some artists arguably have a net positive impact (Elvis). But the trend frustrates people.

For contrast, nobody is really bothered by Takeo Ischi, the Japanese Yodeler. He idolized legendary yodeler Franzl Lang growing up, moved to Switzerland, became Lang's apprentice, etc. Why are people not bothered by this? Because it's not like Japanese people are taking over yodelling, they're not scooping up 90% of yodelling record deals. Also, Lang took Takeo Ischi under his wing. It was very much in the realm of "sharing" not "taking".

What I get from this is that, in a diverse society, culture gets borrowed and your race/ethnicity/heritage/whatever becomes less relevant.

It seems to me that the issue with cultural appropriation is more that white people can be more successful at something than other people that were initially more influential in whatever part of culture that white people are "taking." I get that argument, I've wondered if I would have been more successful at certain things if I weren't Hispanic. But at the same time, I can't blame someone for being successful at something that borrows from another culture just because of their race. That speaks more about the culture than the "appropriator" if they are successful at something that another race/ethnicity is not. Calling out singers or restaurant owners for "appropriation" makes them a victim as well; they're not bad people, they rarely disrespect the culture they're "appropriating", and all they're doing is participating in an element of culture that originally wasn't part of their own.

All that said, in truth, I'm not the best person to criticize cultural appropriation either. I live in the LA area where cultures come together and sometimes mix. More than that, I have never participated in my "native culture" that people have expected me to participate in, instead opting for American/Southern Californian culture. So, there's no "native culture" to appropriate for me to get upset about. And I just don't see Americans (and especially those from California) caring if American/Californian culture is appropriated, considering its influence around the world. So again, maybe it's just that I can't understand it.
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I always saw cultural appropriation as when someone else misuses something from another culture while trying to give it another meaning (either directly or indirectly). For example when someone wears a first nation headdress as something fashionable or to give a Christian example if people decided to dress up as priest or nuns without going through the steps to become one.

With that said, can someone who isn't Japanese descent open a sushi restaurant? Of course, as long as they're taught how to correctly make it. Of course sushi is made in so many ways (especially when you include fusion food) that specifics are a bit lost now.
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Zachnorn posted...

So, there's no "native culture" to appropriate for me to get upset about.

Surfer douches?
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-farmer-calls-out-liberal-racism-in-powerful-facebook-message_us_5925a027e4b0650cc020eb4d

regarding appropriation
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For example when someone wears a first nation headdress as something fashionable or to give a Christian example if people decided to dress up as priest or nuns without going through the steps to become one.

I don't see a problem with either of these things, so long as you aren't actually claiming to BE a native American (lol elizabeth warren) and/or priest or whatever
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Wait so these women supposedly asked for recipes and were rejected, so they opted to just steal them from other people?
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/05/29/cultural-appropriation-po_n_16869564.html

just in case you thought white people couldn't play this card too....
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white people are appropriating being victims of appropriation too??
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metroid composite posted...

On cultural appropriation specifically--it's only an issue if there is a larger social trend.

In the 50s, rock and roll was almost exclusively black music. Then people like Buddy Holly and Elvis came along, teen white girls found them attractive, Holly/Elvis became much more popular than their black counterparts, and by the 80s, most of the successful rock and roll artists making large amounts of money were white. Rap music seems to be on somewhat of a similar trajectory, where it was almost all black in the 80s, and a mix now. In 20 years, maybe most popular rap artists will be white. No individual artist is necessarily at fault. Some artists arguably have a net positive impact (Elvis). But the trend frustrates people.

For contrast, nobody is really bothered by Takeo Ischi, the Japanese Yodeler. He idolized legendary yodeler Franzl Lang growing up, moved to Switzerland, became Lang's apprentice, etc. Why are people not bothered by this? Because it's not like Japanese people are taking over yodelling, they're not scooping up 90% of yodelling record deals. Also, Lang took Takeo Ischi under his wing. It was very much in the realm of "sharing" not "taking".

ok well in the 40's and 50's most basketball players were white. Did black people appropriate basketball? or football?
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Did you know that the sumo wrestling foundation in Japan has limits on how many non-Japanese players there are allowed to be? Can you imagine what would happen if white people did that with sports they invented?

I dunno
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Behindthecurve posted...

Did you know that the sumo wrestling foundation in Japan has limits on how many non-Japanese players there are allowed to be? Can you imagine what would happen if white people did that with sports they invented?

tons of foreign sports leagues do this, its incredibly common, especially in asia
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Behindthecurve posted...

Did you know that the sumo wrestling foundation in Japan has limits on how many non-Japanese players there are allowed to be? Can you imagine what would happen if white people did that with sports they invented?

That's not just sumo though, most Japanese pro sports leagues are like that (baseball, basketball, etc.), because they don't want teams just buying a bunch of foreigners and no locals get a chance to play, so the fans won't be as interested.
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MZero11 posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Did you know that the sumo wrestling foundation in Japan has limits on how many non-Japanese players there are allowed to be? Can you imagine what would happen if white people did that with sports they invented?

That's not just sumo though, most Japanese pro sports leagues are like that (baseball, basketball, etc.), because they don't want teams just buying a bunch of foreigners and no locals get a chance to play, so the fans won't be as interested.

Same point. If a Western country did that, it would be nonstop complaints about racism.