Current Events > Please, don't be taken in by Donald Trump's tax cuts. (Long-ish political post)

(+) Yeah! (+)

(For the tl;dr crowd: just read the parts in bold!)

I am old. (Relative to the mean age here, at least...) Being older has plenty of drawbacks... But the one thing it's given me is the wisdom of years. I've lived to see the Reagan tax cuts, and the Bush tax cuts... and I may yet live to see the Trump tax cuts if they go through.

Here is what the Republicans have done. (It's the same thing they always do.)

They've announced a tax cut plan that puts some money in everybody's pocket. Lower crust, middle crust, upper crust. This is the hook: *everybody* hates paying taxes, and *everybody* likes making more money.

However, the tax break the lower and middle class will receive is crumbs compared to what will be bestowed upon the wealthy. Someone who's young -- twenty or thirty years old -- may be satisfied to receive an extra $50, $100, or $150 back on their paycheck each month... but they'll end up paying for it in the long run.

The Republicans' long game has always been to starve the government of revenue and then cite the debt/deficit as reason to dismantle services. Quite often, they also lean on people's racial and socioeconomic resentment to make the case. ("You don't want YOUR tax dollars being wasted on THOSE freeloaders...!")

But the effects of this will be catastrophic for everyone -- including you, unless you fall in the top 10% or so. Never forget, the GOP's end goal is the upheaval of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as we know them. They have been opposed to these programs since their inception under FDR and Lyndon Johnson; they want nothing more than to see them privatized and voucherized, and to see your guaranteed retirement check from the government plugged into a Wall Street casino. Social Security privatization nearly came to fruition under George W. Bush. Medicare voucherization was a stated goal of the McCain and Romney presidential campaigns and is currently sitting at the top of House Speaker Paul Ryan's to-do list.

No matter how much extra money you'll receive back as a result of Trump's tax cuts, you'll pay for it many times over in your retirement, healthcare, and end-of-life benefits, as well as countless other benefits along the way. Moreover, the United States will become weaker and more disadvantaged compared to other countries as a result of its compounding debt. Conservatives often like to trot out the Laffer Curve, frolicking in the fantasy that every tax dollar we cut will be paid for by an additional dollar of tax revenue that's generated by the stimulated economy. It is a lie. Tax cuts on personal income have never paid for themselves, as our national debt can attest.

Though many conservative Republicans believe they're working toward a noble goal, the second Gilded Age they're leading us toward shall be a dark one, indeed, for all but the ludicrously rich. And make no mistake, the gap between the powerful rich and those of us on the bottom and middle will be very, very large if they get their way. Therefore, I urge everyone who believes as I do to continue to raise your voice in dissent. Continue to call your senators and representatives and tell them loud and clear you aren't in favor of this tax legislation, and demand that they oppose it! Our combined voices can, do, and WILL make a difference.

That's all for my PSA. Ta ta!

Lol yea right. Take that libs!
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TL;DR: I am so jealous of people who succeed in life more than me
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there is a large cohort of voters in this country who don't care if we lose these things
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Taxation is theft
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How about:. Naahhh!
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Anyone that can read should already know this. His tax plan was revealed to be shit last year

And naturally the Trumpeteers don't actually have an argument.
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Glass_Phantom posted...

The Republicans' long game has always been to starve the government of revenue and then cite the debt/deficit as reason to dismantle services.

You mean to tell me fiscal conservatives want to cut spending to reduce the deficit??

No. Fucking. Way.

the GOP's end goal is the upheaval of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as we know them. They have been opposed to these programs since their inception under FDR and Lyndon Johnson; they want nothing more than to see them privatized and voucherized

Which would be TERRIBLE! Look how horrible the state of private healthcare industries are in, the prices keep getting cheaper every year! Unlike subsidized healthcare industries, which only get more expensive. How am I supposed to feel like a good person for making other people pay for my stuff if they don't really feel the loss from their paycheck?

No matter how much extra money you'll receive back as a result of Trump's tax cuts, you'll pay for it many times over in your retirement, healthcare, and end-of-life benefits,

Yeah, and since we are still paying for the pensions of people who are already long dead, and won't be able to support the retirement of the baby boomers without causing another recession, it's only fair that WE benefit from this unsustainable system as well. So what if our great great grandchildren will still be paying our bills? We'll all be dead by then so who cares lol

Therefore, I urge everyone who believes as I do to continue to raise your voice in dissent.

No. The welfare state is failing. Better to let it die than keep it on life support much longer. It was a good try. LBJ committed us to pay trillions in taxes to lower the poverty rate a whopping 2% over the past 50 years, but it's time to say goodbye.

It's like a band-aid. Just rip it all off in one go. If you pull it slowly it will only hurt more.
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And here comes Mal with his weirdly shitty arguments

Anyway, I'm to the point where I just assume everything Trump does is bad. Even if it's good, it's probably actually bad when you actually take a look at it.
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Samurontai posted...

And here comes Mal with his weirdly shitty arguments

Lol yeah who cares if the welfare state helps almost nobody out of poverty and is financially unsustainable

You've got nothing and you know it
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Mal_Fet posted...

Glass_Phantom posted...

The Republicans' long game has always been to starve the government of revenue and then cite the debt/deficit as reason to dismantle services.

You mean to tell me fiscal conservatives want to cut spending to reduce the deficit??

No. Fucking. Way.

the GOP's end goal is the upheaval of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as we know them. They have been opposed to these programs since their inception under FDR and Lyndon Johnson; they want nothing more than to see them privatized and voucherized

Which would be TERRIBLE! Look how horrible the state of private healthcare industries are in, the prices keep getting cheaper every year! Unlike subsidized healthcare industries, which only get more expensive. How am I supposed to feel like a good person for making other people pay for my stuff if they don't really feel the loss from their paycheck?

No matter how much extra money you'll receive back as a result of Trump's tax cuts, you'll pay for it many times over in your retirement, healthcare, and end-of-life benefits,

Yeah, and since we are still paying for the pensions of people who are already long dead, and won't be able to support the retirement of the baby boomers without causing another recession, it's only fair that WE benefit from this unsustainable system as well. So what if our great great grandchildren will still be paying our bills? We'll all be dead by then so who cares lol

Therefore, I urge everyone who believes as I do to continue to raise your voice in dissent.

No. The welfare state is failing. Better to let it die than keep it on life support much longer. It was a good try. LBJ committed us to pay trillions in taxes to lower the poverty rate a whopping 2% over the past 50 years, but it's time to say goodbye.

It's like a band-aid. Just rip it all off in one go. If you pull it slowly it will only hurt more.

The population also increased by 65% or 128 million in 50 years. Now any attempt to address the poverty rate 50 years ago was undone by Reagan who introduced reaganomics as a way to strip the middle class and devalue labor, 30 plus years later and there is no middle class just massive wealth inequality, inflation, record poverty.

Bush Jr also contributed to these coffers with his trillions in tax cuts, which is more poignant now with the bulging debt and trillion dollar federal assistance bills over the horizon.
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ReignFury posted...

The population also increased by 65% or 128 million in 50 years.

So there's more people with wants and needs, which means more demand for products and services, which means a higher demand for employment.

Or that should be the case, if our capitalist economy were free of the massive tax burden on businesses and individuals.

ReignFury posted...

Now any attempt to address the poverty rate 50 years ago was undone by Reagan

Weird, so why was the economy so relatively prosperous and poverty low under Reagan and for a decade afterward?

ReignFury posted...

30 plus years later and there is no middle class just massive wealth inequality, inflation, record poverty.

Right, the recession was Reagan's fault. Not the left intentionally creating a housing bubble that would inevitably burst thanks to their unwillingness to curtail subprime loans. Like what George W Bush and Alan Greenspan wanted to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do6wp9Vydys
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wait how rich do I have to be to benefit in the long run
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g980 posted...

wait how rich do I have to be to benefit in the long run

You need to be one of those CEOs who do nothing all day but smoke cigars in rooms full of books and expensive liquor while reaping all the material benefit from those who work beneath them.

You know, the type of CEO that doesn't really exist except in children's cartoons and the minds of adult leftists.
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What's the point of even making this topic? There's nothing any of us could do to stop it from going through and if it does go through then we'll be screwed no matter what. Knowing about it won't change anything
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Bump!

No response, @ReignFury?
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GOATSLAYER posted...

What's the point of even making this topic? There's nothing any of us could do to stop it from going through and if it does go through then we'll be screwed no matter what. Knowing about it won't change anything

That's cynicism. In my humble opinion, cynicism is the enemy of all things good. Look around you -- we humans are capable of amazing feats! Never underestimate what you are capable of doing, or what all of us together are capable of achieving. There are obstacles in the world, but no barrier is so high that it cannot be overcome... Everywhere, life is full of heroism!

That's an extra 300$ you can earn if your employer matches contributions*, or an extra 150 you can put into investments.

If you want to recklessly spend that money instead, well, I'll just refer you to 'Think About Your Future' episode of Teen Titans Go!.

Bump! ^Also @HiddenRoar I think you may have misposted in the wrong thread, friend. =)

My favorite part is how the people who will be screwed most by this (lower/middle class) will be the ones to most staunchly defend it. It's crazy. It's an incredible feat of brainwashing, actually.
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nexigrams posted...

My favorite part is how the people who will be screwed most by this (lower/middle class) will be the ones to most staunchly defend it. It's crazy. It's an incredible feat of brainwashing, actually.

@nexigrams That's very true... I'm trying my best to do my part, calling my GOP and Dem senators/rep every week to urge them not to sign off on the Trump tax cuts. If enough GOPers feel the pressure, they'll buckle, just like they did on the AHCA. You'll have my gratitude and respect if you do the same! I hope you're as motivated to action as I am, this is my country's future and my countrymen's future on the line and I don't want to see them suffer. =(

Bump!

Glass_Phantom posted...

Bump! ^Also @HiddenRoar I think you may have misposted in the wrong thread, friend. =)

Nope, I'm listing suggestions that people can use their (in your example) Glass_Phantom posted...

extra $50, $100, or $150 (back on their) paycheck each month

for, which is saving or investing said money wisely.

https://youtu.be/nn8PX3oEQ64?t=32s

Ah. =)

Bump.

They're preparing the resurrect the AHCA tomorrow and bring it up for a vote! Contact your representatives and tell them no!

Bump!

g980 posted...

wait how rich do I have to be to benefit in the long run

i would estimate about twice as wealthy as i am now

fun fact: the tax plan actually raises my taxes, as it removes state income taxes from being itemizable, effectively slamming voters who itemize in states with a high state income tax. i would be OK with this, if the money were going to fund programs for the poor, but it's going to the corporate cut and the larger rate cuts for high earners.

the SD increase won't help me because i'll still deduct more by itemizing. but about $10,000 less than i was.
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Mal_Fet posted...

Samurontai posted...

And here comes Mal with his weirdly shitty arguments

Lol yeah who cares if the welfare state helps almost nobody out of poverty and is financially unsustainable

You've got nothing and you know it

Lmao; ironic coming from you

You never have anything beyond basic conservative talking point bullshit
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Not surprising to see CE full of the "I have mine" nonsense

Bump...

Please, don't be taken in by Donald Trump's

You're already speaking at a level too high for the dullard's who support him.
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Bump!

Bump!