Current Events > 5 Black Kids held at gunpoint by police because they fit ''the description.''

(+) Yeah! (+)

Vindris_SNH posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

If we got rid of law enforcement, how long would it take before people started begging for them to come back?

Holy Strawman, Batman!


It's funny that you don't see this with other jobs when workers are rightfully criticized.

It's not a strawman. I'm making a point. The point being, cops usually do a great job, and people shouldn't make generalizations about them being awful.

We should hold them accountable for being awful and demand better. You think these guys are going to be let go? No they're probably back on the streets right now. We want better training and accountability. Then you come in with the "you don't want cops but call them when you get robbed!" Argument. No one in here is arguing that.

Brian-Dawkins posted...

Yeah, it kinda is.

If that's what you think, you don't know what "strawman" means.

Brian-Dawkins posted...

Doesn't mean it's a good point.

But it is.

Brian-Dawkins posted...

The level at which a police officer does there job is not really a consensus; therefore it varies from person to person.

Fact: most cops do their job how they're supposed to.

Brian-Dawkins posted...

Just like you made one about them being great?

A fact is not the same as a generalization.


That was easy.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

If we got rid of law enforcement, how long would it take before people started begging for them to come back?

Holy Strawman, Batman!


It's funny that you don't see this with other jobs when workers are rightfully criticized.

It's not a strawman. I'm making a point. The point being, cops usually do a great job, and people shouldn't make generalizations about them being awful.

We should hold them accountable for being awful and demand better. You think these guys are going to be let go? No they're probably back on the streets right now. We want better training and accountability. Then you come in with the "you don't want cops but call them when you get robbed!" Argument. No one in here is arguing that.

Or maybe we should get the full story before we start making demands about what should happen to the cops that did this.

Instead we get people that come into this thread talking about how shit American cops are, making stupid generalizations, and then you get more people in the thread that seemingly have no problem with that idea.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

Fact: most cops do their job how they're supposed to.

"Cops do a great job of doing their job how their supposed to - fact!"
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Anyway, my opinion on this whole thing is that we're probably missing some important facts about why the cops did this, because again, the media wanted to make the story controversial so they could get views, and therefore, money.

TLDR: The media is shit.
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"The full story!" Is all you ever hear from people who aren't willing to call out cops who have done wrong. The same way you claim we hate them all (we don't) people like you refuse to simply say they fucked up. And because of that nothing will ever change.

American cops are racist shit bags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9g5WMCYg1M
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TheVipaGTS posted...

people like you refuse to simply say they fucked up

I'll say it once I'm sure of it. I've said it before in other situations.
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Imagine if we pulled this card with ANY type of worker.


"Why do all of these taxi drivers keep causing accidents?"
"WOW, BUT THE FIRST PERSON YOU'D CALL IF YOU NEEDED TO GET SOMEWHERE WOULD BE A TAXI DRIVER, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF THERE WERE NO TAXI DRIVERS HURRDEEDURRDEE!"
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Vindris_SNH posted...

American cops are racist shit bags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9g5WMCYg1M

Oh wow, you posted one video of a cop doing a good thing. That totally disproves everything said in this topic!
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Imagine if we pulled this card with ANY type of worker.

It probably wouldn't work as well, or make as much sense.

That was fun to imagine.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Imagine if we pulled this card with ANY type of worker.


"Why do all of these taxi drivers keep causing accidents?"
"WOW, BUT THE FIRST PERSON YOU'D CALL IF YOU NEEDED TO GET SOMEWHERE WOULD BE A TAXI DRIVER, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF THERE WERE NO TAXI DRIVERS HURRDEEDURRDEE!"

Pretty happy actually. The streets would be a lot safer, and we could still use Uber

It's like every single thing Vindris_SNH posts is worthy of a Nick Young face.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

American cops are racist shit bags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9g5WMCYg1M

Oh wow, you posted one video of a cop doing a good thing. That totally disproves everything said in this topic!

I think you completely misunderstand where I'm coming from.

Darklit_Minuet posted...

American cops don't need help to look bad/racist.

This is the post and poster I was talking to about making generalizations about cops.

I'm not saying the cops in this case did nothing wrong, I'm GUESSING that the media is leaving details out to make them look bad, because that kind of thing happens all the time.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It's like every single thing Vindris_SNH posts is worthy of a Nick Young face.

lol
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Vindris_SNH posted...

I think you completely misunderstand where I'm coming from.

There's nothing to understand. You tried to argue against a point or trend with just one single video.


Nobody in this topic said that there aren't good cops in America.
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I also don't understand the "so many good cops! You never hear about that in the news!"...uuuhhh yea that's kind of expected. Not news. If a McDonald's employee spit in a burger you might hear that on the news. You won't hear "McDonald's worker prepares sandwich. Serves it with no problem"...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

I think you completely misunderstand where I'm coming from.

There's nothing to understand. You tried to argue against a point or trend with just one single video.


Nobody in this topic said that there aren't good cops in America.

One poster made a generalization about how cops in America are bad/racist. I'm arguing against him and his statement, specifically.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

I also don't understand the "so many good cops! You never hear about that in the news!"...uuuhhh yea that's kind of expected. Not news. If a McDonald's employee spit in a burger you might hear that on the news. You won't hear "McDonald's worker prepares sandwich. Serves it with no problem"...

The point was that the media can negatively effect your opinion of cops, because you rarely hear about anything they do unless they're doing it wrong. I'm addressing one specific poster who made a negative generalization about cops. I don't know why you people are blowing this up.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

The point was that the media can negatively effect your opinion of cops, because you rarely hear about anything they do unless they're doing it wrong.

Most day-to-day cop-related shit doesn't make the news in general, good or bad, unless it results in a death/injury.


There's this story here, but many black people are already aware that shit like this happens all the time, particularly in predominantly black neighborhoods.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

The point was that the media can negatively effect your opinion of cops, because you rarely hear about anything they do unless they're doing it wrong.

Most day-to-day cop-related shit doesn't make the news in general, good or bad, unless it results in a death/injury.


There's this story here, but many black people are already aware that shit like this happens all the time, particularly in predominantly black neighborhoods.

And if it turns out that the cops had no legitimate excuse in this story, then shame on them.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Haldol posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Twinmold posted...

If you don't find this horrible, you're racist. Case closed. There's no argument.

It doesn't matter that you disagree. Society gets to determine who's racist, and who's not, and the verdict is in.

Why can't "overzealous cop" count? Doesn't have to be race-related.

I think it's absolutely wrong but maybe not for the same reasons as everyone else.

Show us the white kids who get held up like that and then told that they should've behaved better than a fuckin supposedly trained cop in a tense situation??
Go on

Show us

I personally don't care about the race of the kids. I always side with reason and common sense, which 99.9% of the time (including this case) is the side of the police.

Riiiiight

Michigan/OH/IN is as redneck and prejudice against black folks as any of the Deep South don't let them nasally ass accents and higher proportions of Dems fool your ass.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

The point was that the media can negatively effect your opinion of cops, because you rarely hear about anything they do unless they're doing it wrong. I'm addressing one specific poster who made a negative generalization about cops. I don't know why you people are blowing this up.

If we heard about McDonalds workers spitting in burgers on the news each and every day we'd be justified in having negative opinions about McDonalds workers and never going there. But no - we hear about it once in a blue moon, and the perpetrator is always *IMMEDIATELY* fired. No paid vacation followed by a promotion, they're simply out of a job. Cops can easily fix their PR problems by not killing, robbing, brutalizing or holding people at gunpoint, and actually getting punished if they do so.

Can't think of a single day in the past year or two where there wasn't a story about a cop abusing their power. They kill over a thousand people a year.

And contrary to popular belief, most criminals aren't looking to get into a shootout with a cop, because the punishment for killing/hurting a cop is likely FAR worse than any other crime they're committing.


They're more likely to flee than get into a shootout. So this notion that cops HAVE to surprise attack potential suspects is quite silly. Sure, there are bold criminals that don't mind killing an officer, but most are trying to AVOID dealing with them. In fact, a cop pulling a gun out on a suspect could make the criminal think it's a life or death situation and attempt to fire back.
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Haldol posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Haldol posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Twinmold posted...

If you don't find this horrible, you're racist. Case closed. There's no argument.

It doesn't matter that you disagree. Society gets to determine who's racist, and who's not, and the verdict is in.

Why can't "overzealous cop" count? Doesn't have to be race-related.

I think it's absolutely wrong but maybe not for the same reasons as everyone else.

Show us the white kids who get held up like that and then told that they should've behaved better than a fuckin supposedly trained cop in a tense situation??
Go on

Show us

I personally don't care about the race of the kids. I always side with reason and common sense, which 99.9% of the time (including this case) is the side of the police.

Riiiiight

It's true. And the reaction of the public to this case (not the actual case itself, but just the public reaction) shows that we have a big problem in this country. People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.

People should stop questioning those in power? Really?
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Haldol posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

Haldol posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Twinmold posted...

If you don't find this horrible, you're racist. Case closed. There's no argument.

It doesn't matter that you disagree. Society gets to determine who's racist, and who's not, and the verdict is in.

Why can't "overzealous cop" count? Doesn't have to be race-related.

I think it's absolutely wrong but maybe not for the same reasons as everyone else.

Show us the white kids who get held up like that and then told that they should've behaved better than a fuckin supposedly trained cop in a tense situation??
Go on

Show us

I personally don't care about the race of the kids. I always side with reason and common sense, which 99.9% of the time (including this case) is the side of the police.

Riiiiight

It's true. And the reaction of the public to this case (not the actual case itself, but just the public reaction) shows that we have a big problem in this country. People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.

Riiiiight

They are paid professionals who should have more training than the average citizen right??? So they should know how to handle situations without causing unnecessary harm or panic

And stop questioning the police?? What kinda silly statement is that? Are they infallible now?

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.

People should stop questioning those in power? Really?

Translation:

"Black people should just shut up and know their place"

Haldol posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.

People should stop questioning those in power? Really?

Translation:

"Black people should just shut up and know their place"

Where did I say anything about black people?
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Nobody should blindly comply with corrupt cops. Stop trying to turn your country into even more of a police state than it already is

My question is why are there less expectations placed on those who are paid with OUR money to enforce the law than the average citizen?

Why is it solely civilian's responsibility to defuse a situation and not the person who is literally paid to defuse situations?
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

Can't think of a single day in the past year or two where there wasn't a story about a cop abusing their power.

"Abusing" their power, according to the media, and how they like to spin the story.

Don't believe everything you hear from American media right away. Don't take it at face value. America's media needs to be scrutinized. Of course they're going to take every opportunity they can to blow any story way out of proportion so that they can garner viewers and make more money.

And that's what you need to keep in mind: American media is there to make money, not to keep the public informed.

The real abuse of power here is coming from the media. I would bet that at least half of these stories you hear are spun to make the cops look bad, when in fact, their actions were justified for a reason the media conveniently left out.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

Can't think of a single day in the past year or two where there wasn't a story about a cop abusing their power.

"Abusing" their power, according to the media, and how they like to spin the story.

Don't believe everything you hear from American media right away. Don't take it at face value. America media needs to be scrutinized. Of course they're going to take every opportunity they can to blow any story way out of proportioned so that they can garner viewers and make more money.

And that's what you need to keep in mind: American media is there to make money, not to keep the public informed.

The real abuse of power here is coming from the media. I would bet that at least half of these stories you hear are spun to make the cops look bad, when in fact, their actions were justified for a reason the media conveniently left out.

If the cops never pointed their guns at these kids, this story wouldn't exist. If they never choked Eric Garner to death, stories about him wouldn't exist. If they never committed a drive-by shooting on Tamir Rice, that story would have never existed either.

None of these stories needed "spin" to look bad. The media can't report on something that doesn't actually happen

Where are you to say this when conservative news sites take a bunch of isolated Twitter posts and use it to show that BLM is a terrorist organization?
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

My question is why are there less expectations placed on those who are paid with OUR money to enforce the law than the average citizen?

There's not. Cops are already held to very high standards and are immediately fired (if not worse) when they abuse the power that the public has entrusted them with. But there still should be some standard that the average citizen is held to when they interact with police.
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Lol so it's the medias fault???

I wonder how long we can keep using them as the boogeyman scape goat.

This is what Chump has brainwashed people into believing.

DifferentialEquation posted...

Haldol posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

People in general need to be better trained/educated so that they stop questioning the police and start complying with their orders.

People should stop questioning those in power? Really?

Translation:

"Black people should just shut up and know their place"

Where did I say anything about black people?

I know what you mean beaded on your posting history and reaction to this thread

DifferentialEquation posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

My question is why are there less expectations placed on those who are paid with OUR money to enforce the law than the average citizen?

There's not. Cops are already held to very high standards and are immediately fired (if not worse) when they abuse the power that the public has entrusted them with. But there still should be some standard that the average citizen is held to when they interact with police.

Lol

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

My question is why are there less expectations placed on those who are paid with OUR money to enforce the law than the average citizen?

Why is it solely civilian's responsibility to defuse a situation and not the person who is literally paid to defuse situations?

it's the civilians job not to escalate things. As we've seen with certain posters on this board, that doesn't always happen. People who refuse to roll down their car windows or try to run from cops are escalating things needlessly.(unless they're doing something illegal, in which case they have no argument)
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

None of these stories needed "spin" to look bad.

a vague call to dispatch suggested a large fight in the area, and the possibility a teen was in possession of a gun.

This line in the article makes it pretty clear that what the cops were doing was not without reason. But notice how they use the word "vague", and even started the article with "five African American youths aged between 12 and 14 years were held at gunpoint — for no justifiable reason"..

Except there clearly was a justifiable reason.

This is the PERFECT example of spinning a story to make cops look bad.

The officers didn’t do anything wrong. They acted on articulate facts from a witness moments earlier who said he saw them hand a gun to each other

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DifferentialEquation posted...

There's not. Cops are already held to very high standards and are immediately fired

LOL please.


This topic itself has people going "Why didn't the kids just comply immediately to orders while in a state of shock and surprise?" instead of "Couldn't the officer have found a better alternative than to just start waving his gun around at the first group of black teenagers that he saw?"
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Vindris_SNH posted...

And if it turns out that the cops had no legitimate excuse in this story, then shame on them.

sounds like you'd need mountains and mountains of evidence in order to even consider that the police were in the wrong. or that you'd search and search for any scrap of evidence that the police were in the right.

that's why your mentality is difficult to swallow. to you citizens have to be flawless, and the police are given an extreamly long leash.

thronedfire2 posted...

it's the civilians job not to escalate things.

It's not their "job". Obviously you wouldn't want to escalate things out of concern for your own safety and well-being. But civilians also have less training than cops and particularly in instances where you don't even know what the fuck is going on, you tend to be on the defensive.
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yhelotharCE posted...

you'd search and search for any scrap of evidence that the police were in the right.

Actually the evidence for the cops being justified in their actions for this story is RIGHT IN THE ARTICLE.

The reason I think like I do is because I've seen law enforcement falsely accused too many times, and I'm sick of it. They're out there trying to defend your well-being, and you take every opportunity you can to shit on them.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

it's the civilians job not to escalate things.

It's not their "job". Obviously you wouldn't want to escalate things out of concern for your own safety and well-being. But civilians also have less training than cops and particularly in instances where you don't even know what the fuck is going on, you tend to be on the defensive.

it's a social contract. just like it's understood that you aren't supposed to just shout racist shit and act crazy in public. that's your job as a citizen

and it's shit parents fault if kids aren't taught this
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

"Couldn't the officer have found a better alternative than to just start waving his gun around at the first group of black teenagers that he saw?"

He wasn't "waving his gun around". And, based on the angle in the video, it appears that officer was holding the firearm properly; his trigger finger was outside the guard instead of on the trigger.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

None of these stories needed "spin" to look bad.

a vague call to dispatch suggested a large fight in the area, and the possibility a teen was in possession of a gun.

This line in the article makes it pretty clear that what the cops were doing was not without reason. But notice how they use the word "vague", and even started the article with "five African American youths aged between 12 and 14 years were held at gunpoint — for no justifiable reason"..

Except there clearly was a justifiable reason.

This is the PERFECT example of spinning a story to make cops look bad.

The officers didn’t do anything wrong. They acted on articulate facts from a witness moments earlier who said he saw them hand a gun to each other

So that means you point a gun at the first group of black kids you see? In a black area?
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Vindris_SNH posted...

The reason I think like I do is because I've seen law enforcement falsely accused too many times, and I'm sick of it.

you know who else has been falsely accused too many times and they're sick of it?

it seems weird that neither side in this argument can understand where the other side is coming from, despite having almost the exact same opinions.

- "we're treated unfairly"
- "the media portrays us negatively"
- "people assume the worst about most of us based on the actions of a few"

like, the exact same thing on both sides.

thronedfire2 posted...

it's a social contract. just like it's understood that you aren't supposed to just shout racist shit and act crazy in public. that's your job as a citizen

and it's shit parents fault if kids aren't taught this

And that's irrelevant. Cops shouldn't be given a pass for escalating a situation just because a civilian did. Just like I can't curse out a customer at my job because they're acting like a dick to me. I'm supposed to be trained to deal with these types of scenarios.
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