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darkprince45 04/20/17 9:02:54 AM #1: |
I feel like yes. But I think if we knew that an actual cure would be developed then he's wrong
But there was no chance to know and that point fuck it --- Cubs, Rockies, A's, Grizzlies, Bulls, Cowboys, Patriots. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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l Dudeboy l 04/20/17 9:03:48 AM #2: |
I don't know who Joel is or what game were talking about.
--- You are now breathing manually. Lets put a little lead in the air, and see what falls over. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Shotgunnova 04/20/17 9:04:02 AM #3: |
Joel was a bro.
--- Take me down from the ridge where the summer ends And watch the city spread out just like a jet's flame ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Soviet_Poland 04/20/17 9:06:31 AM #4: |
Even a cure is sort of pointless. I mean at that point, you don't have the resources to mass produce and/or mass distribute.
A cure would have simply led to a power struggle between the fireflies and the remnants of the government. True containment never seemed like a real possibility. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SSJGrimReaper 04/20/17 9:08:10 AM #5: |
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:08:34 AM #6: |
I think when you say there are spoilers but don't say what you're spoiling, this counts as unmarked spoilers. At least I got modded for it a couple years ago.
But in TLoU, --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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l33t_iRk3n_Rm33 04/20/17 9:09:09 AM #7: |
Nah. Seems pretty unambiguous to me.
--- Why Nidhogg 2 gotta be so ugly tho http://i.imgur.com/QiEb7.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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darkprince45 04/20/17 9:14:01 AM #8: |
DevsBro posted...
I think when you say there are spoilers but don't say what you're spoiling, this counts as unmarked spoilers. At least I got modded for it a couple years ago. I mean I said end spoilers and literally barely gave anything away. So vague intentionally --- Cubs, Rockies, A's, Grizzlies, Bulls, Cowboys, Patriots. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GiftedACIII 04/20/17 9:16:13 AM #9: |
Only because the fireflies were villains. If they were clear cut good people who've been the main allies in the beginning trying to save the world then no because Ellie herself already chose it.
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StarReaper13 04/20/17 9:18:06 AM #10: |
If Ellie wanted to do it, then no.
If she hadn't known what would have happened to her, then yeah. --- Ignore when people say that the title length is not important, that a title should just convey what the game is about. They're just jealous theirs isn't as long ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:18:16 AM #11: |
It's absolutely hilarious, a little bit disturbing and facinating for psychology the way TLOU fans bend over backwards to refuse to admit Joel did a bad thing.
The entire point was that what he was doing was evil and selfish. And people make up their own fan-fiction to justify it. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:19:17 AM #12: |
If Ellie wanted to do it, then no. Joel literally lied to her because she wanted to do it. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Soviet_Poland 04/20/17 9:21:03 AM #13: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
It's absolutely hilarious, a little bit disturbing and facinating for psychology the way TLOU fans bend over backwards to refuse to admit Joel did a bad thing. I'm sorry, a 15 year old girl who suffers the trauma of living in that environment cannot give an informed decision when told by a radicalist group that she can save humanity when in fact they were documented fuccbois who botched experimental surgeries on people with similar resistances. Ellie wasn't unique and any sort of treatment or cure theoretically derived from her would have been used for geopolitical gain and would not benefit humanity at large. That's a huge IF considering a cure was unlikely anyway. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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darkprince45 04/20/17 9:22:04 AM #14: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
It's absolutely hilarious, a little bit disturbing and facinating for psychology the way TLOU fans bend over backwards to refuse to admit Joel did a bad thing. *rolls eyes* We get its wrong what he did. But it's not so black and white. He had a human connection with someone. A choice of losing someone very important to you over something that's iffy is a huge moral choice for anyone alive --- Cubs, Rockies, A's, Grizzlies, Bulls, Cowboys, Patriots. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Soviet_Poland 04/20/17 9:22:31 AM #15: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
Joel literally lied to her because she wanted to do it. I suggest you read up on medical/bioethics regarding informed consent and how the coercive manner the fireflies acted literally precludes one from making a rationally informed decision. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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StarReaper13 04/20/17 9:24:14 AM #16: |
Soviet_Poland posted...
I mean he wasn't thinking of it in that regard, he was thinking about himself and Ellie in the sense of how: darkprince45 posted... He had a human connection with someone. A choice of losing very important to you over something that's iffy is a huge moral choice for anyone alive --- Ignore when people say that the title length is not important, that a title should just convey what the game is about. They're just jealous theirs isn't as long ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Link HT 04/20/17 9:25:01 AM #17: |
Joel was right
It might have produced a cure but odds are it wouldn't, and a cure wouldn't do much anyway. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:26:10 AM #18: |
It's absolutely hilarious, a little bit disturbing and facinating for psychology the way TLOU fans bend over backwards to refuse to admit Joel did a bad thing. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't have done the same thing. It doesn't even matter how certain they are that they could come up with a vaccine or even just make all the infected suddenly go poof. Plus there are a lot of thematic reasons he had to choose what he did. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:27:42 AM #19: |
No there's not. What are you on about? Soviet_Poland posted...
Ellie was unique. Seriously this is what I mean, this is pure fan-fiction just to justify Joel's murder spree darkprince45 posted...
So did all the people he murdered Soviet_Poland posted...
It's still her decision dude, so much so that Joel flat out has to lie to her to get to go along with no doing it. You're talking about "the coercive manner the fireflies acted literally precludes one from making a rationally informed decision." when the guy you're defending is a murderer who lied to her to force her to do what he wants her to do for his own selfish reasons. It's fucked up. Joel's a dick man. That was the point of the ending. Joel goes evil and fucks the world that fucked him --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:28:01 AM #20: |
Nope. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sojy 04/20/17 9:30:38 AM #21: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
It's absolutely hilarious, a little bit disturbing and facinating for psychology the way TLOU fans bend over backwards to refuse to admit Joel did a bad thing. It's a bit irritating that many of them try to simplify the situation Joel's decision was understandable, especially given the fact that the Fireflies didn't ask for Ellie's consent. But it's supposed to be controversial too. There's supposed to be a good chance that he screwed over society and future generations just to save one innocent person. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:33:16 AM #22: |
It was supposed to comprehensible. But evil, selfish and unjustified. The way people defend it is kinda creepy. And explains a lot about soceity. I.E the support of Travyon Martin Sojy posted... especially given the fact that the Fireflies didn't ask for Ellie's consent. But it's supposed to be controversial too. There's supposed to be a good chance that he screwed over society and future generations just to save one innocent person. Ellie was cool with it. She would be happy to die to save the world She's still depressed from when her gal-pal died. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:37:11 AM #23: |
I actually feel like the ending makes it pretty clear via cinematic cues and such that --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Unsugarized_Foo 04/20/17 9:40:29 AM #24: |
It's pretty gray, but he did the right thing but murdering all the doctors was rather bad
--- "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana ... Copied to Clipboard!
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EvalAngell 04/20/17 9:42:30 AM #25: |
Joel did what any sane, passionate person would do in that situation.
--- Old sport. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:44:06 AM #26: |
It's pretty gray, but he did the right thing but murdering all the doctors was rather bad It's not gray. It's black He murdered a whole bunch of people and prevented a cure from being created against the will of Ellie for his own selfish reasons because he's bitter at the world and feels like a failure. There was nothing white about his deision. It was meant to be a dark twist for the story. Joel is not a hero, he never was a hero, he was never supposed to be a hero. The fans refusal to take him off a hero pedastal and insistance on justifying everything he does is creepy but as I said fascinating. I think it goes a long way into explaning the cult of personality figures we get like Trump or Charles Manson --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dave_is_slick 04/20/17 9:46:06 AM #27: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
Seems pretty fucking gray to me. I'd say your insistence on making it black and white is childish. --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:46:39 AM #28: |
dave_is_slick posted...
UnfairRepresent posted... How about instead going "ur childish" elaborate on what was white about his decision. And he was never seen again --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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dave_is_slick 04/20/17 9:47:28 AM #29: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
dave_is_slick posted...UnfairRepresent posted... Saving someone he loves. --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:49:33 AM #30: |
For selfish reasons, against her will, via lying to her and mass murder. Which results in the lack of a cure for a world threatening disease being developed. There is nothing white about that. The fact he loves Ellie and is angry at the world for the fact he always fails miserably to save the things he loves doesn't make his actions white. They're still evil and selfish --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Unsugarized_Foo 04/20/17 9:49:39 AM #31: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
Saving Ellie was the right choice, the fireflies said no, they deserved what came to them, the nonfighters and/or doctors shouldn't have been hurt or killed and that is worse than letting Ellie go. I remember getting to that part and just starring at the screen not wanting to kill the last surgeon. Then I didn't shoot him and ended up shoving scissors in his face when I was wanting a handshake --- "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:52:06 AM #32: |
Ellie however would have said yes. Joel knows this and lies to her because of it. The fireflies also let Joel live purely out of kindess and he repays them by murdering them. They did not deserve to die for sacrificing one to save many. Joel then sacrificed many to save one for his own selfish emotional reasons It was evil --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:53:13 AM #33: |
Also worth noting that
In lots of places. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/01/22/case-sparks-debate-about-teen-decision-making-in-health --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 9:55:29 AM #34: |
Isn't that just freaking brilliant game design? How can you not love this ending? --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 9:59:06 AM #35: |
Also worth noting that Joel is the closest thing Ellie has to a parent, and in our world a 15 year old can't make their own medical decisions anyway. At least, This isn't our world anymore. It's a zombie apocolypse and Ellie's brain holds a cure Ellie is very intelligent, we learn this both in the DLC and when she takes care of Joel. She makes a very informed decision to do whatever it takes to get to the Fireflies and Joel knows she would die to save others. I'd also argue Marlene is as much of a parent figure than Joel was (who only just decided he cared) and she reluctantly supports the decision Point is moot anyway, Ellie's consent being "Too immature, decide again in 3 years" has nothing to do with Joel's actions. Hence his lying to her. He's just selfish As I said, bend over backwards just to make Joel a hero It's like 10,000 Harelyquinns saying that Joker only slaps her because he loves her --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sojy 04/20/17 10:00:25 AM #36: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
UnfairRepresent posted...
Unsugarized_Foo posted...
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Questionmarktarius 04/20/17 10:00:55 AM #37: |
l Dudeboy l posted...
I don't know who Joel is or what game were talking about. http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Joel_Robinson Joel crash-landed in the Australian outback, and spent a few years travelling and doing freelance pyrotechnics for the band Man or Astro-man?. Later, he set up a Hot Fish Shop in Osseo, Minnesota. At some point, Joel learned that Dr. Forrester had rigged most of the SOL's components to self-destruct after ten years, and pulled together a spaceship to go back and repair the ship. Joel entered tractor range of the SOL during a showing of Soultaker, and reunited with the bots, meeting Mike for the first time. Though Mike and the bots asked if he could take them back to Earth with him, Joel declined, explaining that the years he spent on the SOL were the best years of his life, and telling Mike "it made a man out of me and maybe, just maybe, it'll make a man out of you too." Once the repairs were finished, Joel boarded his ship and headed back to Earth. Mike was so busy pondering that line of wisdom that he missed his chance at an obvious escape. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 10:04:50 AM #38: |
She does talk like she's suicidal in the ending but not like there's anything selfless in it. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 10:05:06 AM #39: |
False. You have to kill 1 doctor Sojy posted...
Exactly. Joel was being selfish He didn't want to fail again and was sick of losing what he wanted. so he put his own wants above the world and fucked over everyone else Thats evil. He's a bad man Sojy posted...
That makes no sense. Fireflies are terrorists, they kill people all the time. Marlene didn't want Joel to die because Joel didn't deserve it after all he had done. So they bring him when is unconcious and let him go. Marlene has a conscience. Joel didn't anymore. So he killed her and all her chums and fucked the world. In light of what needed to be done with Ellie, just killing Joel too would've been the more merciful option. That makes no sense. How is murder merciful? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 10:07:20 AM #40: |
You haven't played the Left Behind DLC. Ellie is depressed because her lesbian girlfriend died and she has survivor guilt. Ellie didn't know she had to die, true but Marlene and Joel both know she would be cool with it. Hence why Joel lies to Ellie about what happened. There is really no debate that Ellie would have been willing to die for a cure. She repeatedly risks her life throughout the game just in the quest for a cure. And there would be no pain, she;s unconcious when they find her and doesn't wake up until Joel kidnaps her --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Zikten 04/20/17 10:10:00 AM #41: |
the fireflies were assholes. I mean look at what they do when you first get to their hideout. What kind of jerk attack a man trying to save a girl's life? he's clearly doing CPR on her, and they run over and punch him and knock him out
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Sojy 04/20/17 10:15:58 AM #42: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
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Soviet_Poland 04/20/17 11:03:59 AM #43: |
UnfairRepresent posted...
No there's not. Fact of the matter is, Ellie was never put in a position to make an informed decision about this. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 11:12:14 AM #44: |
If you read some of the text logs scattered throughout the last area, you'd find the research notes from the fireflies experimenting on other resistant individuals. All subjects died, no cure found. No there wasn't. Those weren't Ellie. They weren't immune. They were just testing people You're thinking of: April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients. We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain. "Past Cases" aren't people with immunity, they're just dudes who were infected. This is what I mean about people bending over backwards --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Burgess 04/20/17 11:13:12 AM #45: |
He never should have left Funhaus.
--- Burgess [Z?] ...follow the Mod that failed. "All that typing made me have to crap."~Dark Magic Vixen ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 11:28:33 AM #46: |
These things are all dumped online. Show me the full text of a single one that says You haven't played the Left Behind DLC. Yeah, I have, actually. If anything, it implies --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 04/20/17 11:37:41 AM #47: |
Oh fuck off This is exactly my point, everyone makes up bullshit fan-fiction to justify Joels actions. How the hell did Ellie find Riley in Joel? Riley was someone she wanted to fuck, Joel was a father figure. Why do you think Joel lied to Ellie? If you for one second try to argue that Ellie would not have been willing to sacrifice herself if it meant a potential cure then you're just drinking your own kool-aid --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. http://i.imgur.com/45yVrRr.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DevsBro 04/20/17 11:45:06 AM #48: |
Riley was someone she wanted to f*** What makes you say that? They were just good friends that had an awkward two-second kiss never foreshadowed or mentioned again. On the other hand, Riley was a kind of street smart mentor in addition to a friend. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnholyMudcrab 04/20/17 11:45:51 AM #49: |
Oh, here we go
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DevsBro 04/20/17 11:46:49 AM #50: |
I have no intention of pursuing that, actually. That's way off topic.
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