Current Events > What are your favorite 2000s "Angst Ballad" songs?

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green butter 04/11/17 2:55:13 PM #1:	For those unfamiliar - the 2000s were a fantastic time for aggressively emotional music. On one end of the spectrum, you had emo music, but for those that wanted music that was equally as emotional but not nearly as sentimental, there was what I guess would be considered post-grunge or hard rock. One of the best things that came out of this are what I call Angst Ballads. Basically this is reflective music for the kinds of guys that have chinstrap beards, Tapout clothing, and kitchen tattoos of their favorite sports team's logo. The music has that mainstream hard rock edge, but with angsty melodramatic lyrics, where the singer describes the feelings of longing for his trashy ex girlfriend as being like a KNIFE cutting into his HEART and spilling out all his BLOOD. Singers in this genre are typically overweight, often bald, often with tribal tattoos, and almost definitely have facial piercings. Examples: Staind - It's Been a While https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=araU0fZj6oQ Seether - Fine Again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET3-t1jFmo0 Puddle of Mudd - Blurry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RisBAkC0x8 Saliva - Always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zEm-U1hC7E Chevelle - Send the Pain Below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpyRI1j9t6c So CE, what are your favorite Angst Ballads? --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876992727] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>For those unfamiliar - the 2000s were a fantastic time for aggressively emotional music. On one end of the spectrum, you had emo music, but for those that wanted music that was equally as emotional but not nearly as sentimental, there was what I guess would be considered post-grunge or hard rock. One of the best things that came out of this are what I call Angst Ballads. Basically this is reflective music for the kinds of guys that have chinstrap beards, Tapout clothing, and kitchen tattoos of their favorite sports team's logo. The music has that mainstream hard rock edge, but with angsty melodramatic lyrics, where the singer describes the feelings of longing for his trashy ex girlfriend as being like a KNIFE cutting into his HEART and spilling out all his BLOOD. Singers in this genre are typically overweight, often bald, often with tribal tattoos, and almost definitely have facial piercings. Examples: Staind - It's Been a While https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=araU0fZj6oQ Seether - Fine Again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET3-t1jFmo0 Puddle of Mudd - Blurry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RisBAkC0x8 Saliva - Always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zEm-U1hC7E Chevelle - Send the Pain Below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpyRI1j9t6c So CE, what are your favorite Angst Ballads?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KainWind 04/11/17 2:58:02 PM #2:	Welcome to the Black Parade --- http://i.imgtc.com/pRZqu18C.gif http://i.imgtc.com/jccgiB1G.gif http://i.imgtc.com/WEkU41Yb.gif http://i.imgtc.com/dBcIyU2x.gif <cite>KainWind posted [p:876992888] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Welcome to the Black Parade</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
chill02 04/11/17 2:58:28 PM #3:	I like half of those songs >_> --- Ave, true to Caesar. <cite>chill02 posted [p:876992918] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>I like half of those songs >_></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PrinceDBF 04/11/17 2:59:21 PM #4:	jesus of suburbia --- that's just wrong, princedbf. <cite>PrinceDBF posted [p:876992969] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>jesus of suburbia</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Turbam 04/11/17 2:59:51 PM #5:	Proud Mary --- I'm just one man! Whoa! Well, I'm a one man band! http://i.imgur.com/p9Xvjvs.gif <cite>Turbam posted [p:876992995] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Proud Mary</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 3:00:47 PM #6:	chill02 posted... I like half of those songs >_> do you own a dirtbike? KainWind posted... Welcome to the Black Parade PrinceDBF posted... jesus of suburbia you are venturing into emo territory here --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876993058] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>chill02 posted...</cite> <quote>I like half of those songs >_></quote> do you own a dirtbike? <cite>KainWind posted...</cite> <quote>Welcome to the Black Parade</quote> <cite>PrinceDBF posted...</cite> <quote>jesus of suburbia</quote> you are venturing into emo territory here</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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chill02 04/11/17 3:02:51 PM #8:	I own a dirtbike video game --- Ave, true to Caesar. <cite>chill02 posted [p:876993166] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>I own a dirtbike video game</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 3:07:40 PM #9:	DuranOfForcena posted... having trouble trying to think of ones that could be considered "ballads".... i take it you mean the ones that are more laid back, not quite as "heavy" as a lot of the standard nu-metal fare? Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your parents. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick? --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876993455] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote>having trouble trying to think of ones that could be considered "ballads".... i take it you mean the ones that are more laid back, not quite as "heavy" as a lot of the standard nu-metal fare?</quote> Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your parents. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Coolppl Owns 04/11/17 3:09:38 PM #11:	Audioslave - Like a Stone, I am the Highway, Be Yourself I think these count as angst ballads? Chris Cornell's voice is pretty sick imo --- _.-=/Got Coolppl?\=-._ =-._\Got Coolppl?/_.-= <cite>Coolppl Owns posted [p:876993562] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Audioslave - Like a Stone, I am the Highway, Be Yourself I think these count as angst ballads? Chris Cornell's voice is pretty sick imo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 3:10:18 PM #12:	DuranOfForcena posted... green butter posted... DuranOfForcena posted... having trouble trying to think of ones that could be considered "ballads".... i take it you mean the ones that are more laid back, not quite as "heavy" as a lot of the standard nu-metal fare? Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your parents. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick? well that just confuses me even more. cuz that's not the same type of song as ones "where the singer describes the feelings of longing for his trashy ex girlfriend as being like a KNIFE cutting into his HEART and spilling out all his BLOOD" Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick? --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876993596] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote><cite>green butter posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote>having trouble trying to think of ones that could be considered "ballads".... i take it you mean the ones that are more laid back, not quite as "heavy" as a lot of the standard nu-metal fare?</quote> Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your parents. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick?</quote> well that just confuses me even more. cuz that's not the same type of song as ones "where the singer describes the feelings of longing for his trashy ex girlfriend as being like a KNIFE cutting into his HEART and spilling out all his BLOOD"</quote> Don't think so hard about it. Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
philsov 04/11/17 3:49:22 PM #13:	green butter posted... Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick? 2006 work? Wait, another minute here, time will kill us after all Now can you feel its second hand wrapped around your neck So fall into my eyes and fall into my lies But don't you forget The more you turn away, the more I want you to stay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLPnRsSpPY Here's the band! http://loudwire.com/files/2012/01/Evans-Blue-band-pic.jpg bald with tattoos, hue --- Remember that I won't rest, 'til we share the same tense Just know, to me, you're better late than never again. <cite>philsov posted [p:876995928] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>green butter posted...</cite> <quote>Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick?</quote> 2006 work? Wait, another minute here, time will kill us after all Now can you feel its second hand wrapped around your neck So fall into my eyes and fall into my lies But don't you forget The more you turn away, the more I want you to stay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLPnRsSpPY Here's the band! http://loudwire.com/files/2012/01/Evans-Blue-band-pic.jpg bald with tattoos, hue</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WafflehouseJK 04/11/17 3:51:21 PM #14:	Tag --- "She was like, 'Oh, did you see that firefighter? Hes so cute.' And I was like, Mom, I just got blown up." <cite>WafflehouseJK posted [p:876996064] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Tag</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 3:58:03 PM #15:	philsov posted... green butter posted... Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick? 2006 work? Wait, another minute here, time will kill us after all Now can you feel its second hand wrapped around your neck So fall into my eyes and fall into my lies But don't you forget The more you turn away, the more I want you to stay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLPnRsSpPY Here's the band! http://loudwire.com/files/2012/01/Evans-Blue-band-pic.jpg bald with tattoos, hue yup this is perfect --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876996448] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>philsov posted...</cite> <quote><cite>green butter posted...</cite> <quote>Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. You run up to your room and slam the door. You jump onto your bed and punch your pillow a few times before going over to your stereo. You select a song that encapsulates how you feel and hit play. What song did you pick?</quote> 2006 work? Wait, another minute here, time will kill us after all Now can you feel its second hand wrapped around your neck So fall into my eyes and fall into my lies But don't you forget The more you turn away, the more I want you to stay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLPnRsSpPY Here's the band! http://loudwire.com/files/2012/01/Evans-Blue-band-pic.jpg bald with tattoos, hue</quote> yup this is perfect</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChromaticAngel 04/11/17 4:02:35 PM #16:	not sure I really understand the genre. Maybe this? IDK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qOvNgEsZ9s --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png <cite>ChromaticAngel posted [p:876996701] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>not sure I really understand the genre. Maybe this? IDK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qOvNgEsZ9s</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReignFury 04/11/17 4:04:14 PM #17:	Is Last Resort from 2000? --- MAKE AMERICA SMART AGAIN http://i.giftrunk.com/rv4b2c.gif <cite>ReignFury posted [p:876996801] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Is Last Resort from 2000?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChromaticAngel 04/11/17 4:06:41 PM #19:	Maybe this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoPlkmYaEQs --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png <cite>ChromaticAngel posted [p:876996960] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Maybe this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoPlkmYaEQs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheoryzC 04/11/17 4:07:07 PM #20:	Does "Numb" from Linkin Park count as a ballad? --- This is where my sigs suppose to be. <cite>TheoryzC posted [p:876996987] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Does "Numb" from Linkin Park count as a ballad?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 4:10:17 PM #21:	DuranOfForcena posted... green butter posted... Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend. i dunno i've never been in that situation lol but i guess you're looking for something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrr3lRLjZ1Y side note: i was thinking about posting the Evans Blue and Three Days Grace songs that were posted above, too Yup, now you're getting it! --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876997164] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote><cite>green butter posted...</cite> <quote>Imagine it is 2003 and you just got into a fight with your overweight girlfriend.</quote> i dunno i've never been in that situation lol but i guess you're looking for something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrr3lRLjZ1Y side note: i was thinking about posting the Evans Blue and Three Days Grace songs that were posted above, too</quote> Yup, now you're getting it!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dragnmaninferno 04/11/17 4:11:39 PM #22:	Does Broken by Seether ft. Amy count? How about Good Enough by Evanescence? --- http://i.imgur.com/cj5gxWr.gif http://i.imgur.com/nQDfEhD.gif http://i.imgur.com/BrXPCvy.gifv http://i.imgur.com/n4vgoNx.gifv <cite>dragnmaninferno posted [p:876997238] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Does Broken by Seether ft. Amy count? How about Good Enough by Evanescence?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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green butter 04/11/17 4:16:49 PM #24:	DuranOfForcena posted... aight how about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhp5aCBR_as personally Trapt's breakout single Headstrong was about one of the stupidest piece of shit songs i've ever had the misfortune of hearing, but i always thought this one was really good for the most part not enough angst dragnmaninferno posted... Does Broken by Seether ft. Amy count? How about Good Enough by Evanescence? Evanescence is more of a band for teenage girls that like to wear chokers, practice wicca, and read anne mccaffrey novels. Seether is a good starting point for the genre. It's all about violent imagery about typical emotions to make them not seem so dumb to middle school and high school boys --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:876997569] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote>aight how about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhp5aCBR_as personally Trapt's breakout single Headstrong was about one of the stupidest piece of shit songs i've ever had the misfortune of hearing, but i always thought this one was really good for the most part</quote> not enough angst <cite>dragnmaninferno posted...</cite> <quote>Does Broken by Seether ft. Amy count? How about Good Enough by Evanescence?</quote> Evanescence is more of a band for teenage girls that like to wear chokers, practice wicca, and read anne mccaffrey novels. Seether is a good starting point for the genre. It's all about violent imagery about typical emotions to make them not seem so dumb to middle school and high school boys</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
judasmaiden15 04/11/17 4:19:41 PM #25:	I used to lol hard at the people for liking those songs in the early 00's especially because they thought they were so "cool" for liking them Anyways my immortal is a good one --- http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww334/gbhgirl/Signs/2pzy2p4.jpg http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww334/gbhgirl/29fo9lj.jpg <cite>judasmaiden15 posted [p:876997709] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>I used to lol hard at the people for liking those songs in the early 00's especially because they thought they were so "cool" for liking them Anyways my immortal is a good one</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CowboyDan 04/11/17 4:22:38 PM #26:	Ill follow you into the dark --- She said, "oh my vote is as red as my blood"... <cite>CowboyDan posted [p:876997889] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Ill follow you into the dark</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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CowboyDan 04/11/17 4:31:29 PM #28:	DuranOfForcena posted... CowboyDan posted... Ill follow you into the dark EMO!!! Yeah, I suppose that's true. That's the only song by then I've ever even heard though. --- She said, "oh my vote is as red as my blood"... <cite>CowboyDan posted [p:876998410] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote><cite>DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CowboyDan posted...</cite> <quote> Ill follow you into the dark</quote> EMO!!!</quote> Yeah, I suppose that's true. That's the only song by then I've ever even heard though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Butterfiles 04/11/17 4:34:56 PM #29:	WAKE UP GRABABRUSHANDPUTALlLMAKEUP --- http://www.last.fm/user/PigBun 56k warning <cite>Butterfiles posted [p:876998616] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>WAKE UP GRABABRUSHANDPUTALlLMAKEUP</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hyperpsycho 04/11/17 4:36:18 PM #30:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUzd9KyIDrM Does this count? --- http://i.imgur.com/ZrnUI3A.jpg ~drawn by United_World <cite>hyperpsycho posted [p:876998695] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUzd9KyIDrM Does this count?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giant_Aspirin 04/11/17 5:05:05 PM #31:	what about Flyleaf - "I'm So Sick" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fttIlMgIg --- Now Playing: Nioh (PS4), Titanfall 2 (PC) *(~);} - Get out the pans, don't just stand there dreamin' - {;(~)* <cite>Giant_Aspirin posted [p:877000411] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>what about Flyleaf - "I'm So Sick" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fttIlMgIg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
New_User0001 04/11/17 5:09:24 PM #32:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTOKnYNI3tU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tvqOF3dhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvu1Yr3Ohk The last one isn't so emotional, just some good ToughGuy Rock <cite>New_User0001 posted [p:877000669] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTOKnYNI3tU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tvqOF3dhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvu1Yr3Ohk The last one isn't so emotional, just some good ToughGuy Rock</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NES4EVER 04/11/17 5:11:53 PM #33:	Does the red by Chevelle count? Because I love that song. Also that first staind song is good too lol --- *nu-horsemen 4evar* [A GameFAQs Moderator was deleted by this message] <cite>NES4EVER posted [p:877000808] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Does the red by Chevelle count? Because I love that song. Also that first staind song is good too lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
green butter 04/11/17 5:44:33 PM #34:	Good posts --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>green butter posted [p:877002785] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Good posts</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trigun8747_v2 04/11/17 5:46:39 PM #35:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22tCfmdLT_k --- Hello. http://www.last.fm/user/PresumedDeadly <cite>Trigun8747_v2 posted [p:877002918] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22tCfmdLT_k</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 04/11/17 7:35:01 PM #36:	Lips of an Angel - Hinder Far From Home - FFDP (2009 >_>) Killing Loneliness - HIM --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's #DI4B <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:877009573] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>Lips of an Angel - Hinder Far From Home - FFDP (2009 >_>) Killing Loneliness - HIM</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
chill02 04/11/17 7:37:31 PM #37:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLaUCnNKeU ? --- Ave, true to Caesar. <cite>chill02 posted [p:877009738] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLaUCnNKeU ?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheoryzC 04/11/17 7:53:48 PM #38:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ekz_CSBVg --- This is where my sigs suppose to be. <cite>TheoryzC posted [p:877010770] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ekz_CSBVg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vicious_Dios 04/11/17 8:05:21 PM #39:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVQpfoqsY8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hnlgF3zpb8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp16CKQqMAA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka--_6iV7nI --- S / K / Y / N / E Twitch/YouTube/GT: *Adzeta* <cite>Vicious_Dios posted [p:877011484] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVQpfoqsY8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hnlgF3zpb8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp16CKQqMAA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka--_6iV7nI</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 04/11/17 8:12:28 PM #40:	def muse back from their absolution album. our time is running out was prob the best example. as a 17 year old who'd just been dumped by the first girl who fucked me i listened to this song on repeat a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IuJPh6h_A moment of horror for me: that was 13 years ago --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:877011956] in What are y... [t:75225581]...</cite> <quote>def muse back from their absolution album. our time is running out was prob the best example. as a 17 year old who'd just been dumped by the first girl who fucked me i listened to this song on repeat a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IuJPh6h_A moment of horror for me: that was 13 years ago</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > What are your favorite 2000s "Angst Ballad" songs? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > What are your favorite 2000s "Angst Ballad" songs?