Board 8 > Muffin's Mass Effect: Andromeda review/discussion topic [big spoilers]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Decided to do this in a new topic because there's going to be a TON of spoilers and I didn't want to bother tagging them all. You have been warned. Also, this is going to be really long…

Overall thoughts: Absolutely great game. Far and away superior to ME1 on every possible dimension, which I feel is the most relevant comparison. It's tough to compare to 2/3, because so much of what made those games great was further exploring the worlds, races, and characters you had already been introduced to. The sense of familiarity added a LOT to the overall experience, and a game where there will, by default, be little to no familiarity cannot be reasonably expected to compete. That said, even without the familiarity, I think it's damn near competitive with 2/3 for being my favorite game in the series, overall.

Complaints are highly exaggerated. Tech issues seem to be hardware based. On a high end gaming PC, I've experienced very few glitches, the vast majority of which were entirely cosmetic in nature. A couple times I did have to reload a save, but this always occurred outside of combat, with a recent autosave, so I lost no progression. Never experienced any bugs that prevented progression.

As I suspected, a lot of the complaints about animation/voice acting/writing are ridiculously cherry-picked, presumably by haters with an agenda. I find it telling that so many "lol look how ugly this game is" screenshots include Addison, a character who is presumably ugly on purpose to match her horrible obstructive bureaucrat nature. There's no real excuse for default Sara Ryder (willing to entertain SJ-related conspiracy theories on this one, because nothing else makes sense), but other than that, I think it's mostly fine. Similarly, the much-referenced Gil line about "I'm a feel it, do it kinda guy" is possibly THE worst line in the entire game. What's that? One line of dialogue out of 5,000 is terrible? OMG WORST WRITING EVER AM I RIGHT? Please. In a game with thousands of animations, facial expressions, and written lines, yes, finding five or ten bad examples of each will always be possible. I'm SURE there were a few badly written lines and inappropriate facial expressions in Witcher too. But that was never the comparison, now was it? The comparison was always "I've cherry picked the best stuff from Witcher and look, it's better than the cherry-picked worst stuff in Andromeda!" As if that's even close to reasonable.
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The good:

The "new galaxy" setting: This was the biggest thing they had to get right, and the thing I was most nervous about, and they nailed it. I was super worried that this entire premise was going to be an excuse to abandon a lot of the cool alien races and societies we had already met, and replace them with a bunch of random new aliens just for the sake of showing off how great we are at creating alien races. Very glad that temptation was avoided. It's nice to see the major races along for the ride, the minor races on the way, and a couple new races introduced. And bringing it all to a new galaxy with the possibilities of exploration where you, as the player, are on the same level playing field of exploration as everyone else around, changes the dynamic for the better. One of my pet peeves in the original series was that the humans were so new to the galaxy, even if it was new for “us,” it wasn’t new for anyone else. What possible “exploration” can you do in a galaxy that the Asari and Salarians have presumably been charting for thousands of years? How realistic is it that you find some massive Eezo deposit on a planet one cluster away from the Citadel? Nobody else ever noticed that, really? But the new galaxy setting (complete with the Kett getting there only a few decades ahead of you, and the Angara being brought down a few pegs via the scourge) erases any such concerns. It makes exploration feel far more realistic than it ever has before. It’s just a really good/realistic way to “reboot” the series without having to fully abandon the things people loved about the old one.

Connection to previous series: This was another tricky one that I think they got just about perfect. I don’t think anyone wanted a ton of constant references to the old series in this one. But we did want a few references, a few subtle easter eggs, and that’s exactly what we got. From Zaeed’s son being a random Kett hunter in the desert, to meeting Conrad Verner’s sister in some random bar. That’s like, the exact right level of reference I want. Yeah, you eventually discover a lot more direct references to Shepard and the Reapers, hidden behind a long-term collectible sidequest… and I think that’s a perfectly fine place to put it. I like that the new galaxy setting is such that they never have to address the ME3 ending. The uncertainty of exactly what happened is entirely reasonable given the distance (both time and physical) between Andromeda and the Milky Way, it doesn’t come across as some contrived “we just don’t talk about this” thing like it occasionally does in other games.

The characters: Aside from the setting, this was probably the second most important thing to get right, and they did. I think most of the squadmates are pretty good in that they remind you of old ones in key ways, but also differentiate themselves in key ways (except Drak lol). The supporting cast is also really good. I’m actually a big fan of the “ruling council” of the Nexus and their various quirks and faults and power struggles. That should definitely be interesting down the stretch. They’re also building up people like Bradley to become important later, and the Sloane/Reyes situation is awesome and deserves a lot more exploration in the future.
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The mixed bag:

“Open-world” stuff: The premise here overall is good. I definitely like how when you land on a new open-world planet, you’re presented with a whole fuck-ton of stuff you can do. It really sells the idea of a new, unexplored world, and how the Pathfinder has a ton of responsibilities and different demands on his time and energy and focus. But of course, the more you get out and actually do these things, the more you realize how many of them are completely and entirely pointless. A lot of the sidequests are just plain uninteresting, and the “rewards” are often so trivially useless that even calling them rewards feels somehow dishonest. There’s potential here in all of this, but the execution was often really poor. That said, it’s definitely an upgrade over 2/3 in terms of feeling a whole lot less linear and “mission-based.” If you’re into that sort of thing (but in a game whose story is largely premised on exploration, it seems pretty appropriate).

New personality system: I’ll admit, at first I was pretty unnerved that paragon/renegade was gone, seemingly replaced by nothing. Ultimately, I think this is another one of those things that can be described as “good idea, poor execution.” I feel like emotional/logical and casual/professional are much more realistic dimensions for a galaxy-saving hero to decide their personality on than the rough good/evil that paragon/renegade often represented. The whole idea of a renegade option for someone whose job is to save the galaxy never quite sat right with me anyway. It always felt like a holdover from KOTOR where being evil was a legitimate character choice that made sense in the context of the star wars universe, but far less so here. And the ability to use it to persuade was sort of neat, but also ended up locking you into a sense of compulsion to always pick one or the other, because if you don’t do that, you’re unable to persuade in key situations (y halo thar Jack/Miranda). Could this have been done better? Sure. It would be nice if your choices helped influence Ryder’s more casual/non-selected dialogue. It would be even cooler if you had more conversations wherein you had to “pick the right option” (like when you’re trying to convince the Angara on Aya to move to the Nexus), and it would be even better if this was contingent upon you actually having used those options in the past (like, if you’ve never been emotional all game, you probably can’t use emotion to persuade people very effectively).
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The open-ended character build system: This is one that feels nice in theory, but I’m not sure it actually works to anyone’s favor. If you’re playing on a high difficulty, it seems self-evident that the most effective option is to pick a core class and immediately focus on your core powers and supports. While it’s a nice idea that you could build up turbocharge AND overload AND shockwave – that’s just, like, a pointless thing to do. My other concern is that by giving people a million choices, you increase their ability to make outright bad ones. I worry that newbies/casuals might end up making bad choices here and lock themselves into bad builds (yes you can respec, but if you’re new, do you even know that your spec is the problem? Or do you think you just suck at the game?). In 2/3 the builds were so relatively linear, you really couldn’t create a “bad” one. Here, that seems much more plausible. The ability to switch “profiles” on the fly also seems nice, but does ANYONE actually do it? I certainly don’t. Why would you want to be a half-assed engineer sometimes and a half-assed adept other times when you could be a fully developed one or the other all the time? Especially due to how in this game, the missions/enemies aren’t nearly as situational as they were in the past. In 3, you pretty much knew “if I’m fighting reapers, I need anti-armor, if I’m fighting people, I need anti-shield,” but that’s really not the case anymore. So what, exactly, is the point? I mean sure, it’s nice that I can customize deep enough to add some assault rifle abilities to my engineer character after I’ve already maxed out ignite, overload, and assault turret. But that’s late in the game and hyper specific to what I play. Not sure the pros outweigh the cons here.

The combat: A lot of people have been putting over the combat as some great improvement, but I just don’t see it. It seems mostly the same to me. I generally like using alt to switch shoulders, as it makes you feel a little more involved/in control of what’s going on. The jump-jet and general level design that intentionally maximizes the use of it adds an interesting element of three dimensional combat that was rarely utilized in the previous games, but I’m not sure it really makes it significantly more fun or whatever. It’s mostly just the same “stand behind cover, shoot powers at people, occasionally pop up and fire a gun, run when the big heavy gets close to you, repeat” model we’ve been using for a long time now. Nothing particularly good or particularly bad about it I guess.
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Cliché plot elements: I’m generally fine with the plot overall, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that it largely follows the most common and clichéd sci-fi videogame plots in recent years. Ancient abandoned alien civilization you have to discover, turns out it’s part of a superweapon, hidden base you have to find, hostile aliens racing you to control it for evil purposes, etc. Yawn. Oh, and the whole “their ground forces consist of YOUR OWN PEOPLE whom they have MADE INTO THEM” has existed in literally every game in this series so far already and desperately needs to be retired. Hilarious how the Angara are so shocked and appalled at this surprising revelation and I’m sitting here like “OF COURSE that’s how they do it – have none of you EVER played one of these games before???” I will say though, I do like the Kett slightly more than the Geth/Collective/Reapers as bad guys, if only because they are actually biological and seem to have free will, which makes the evil more, well, evil. Already feel like the Ryder/Archon rivalry was more deeply personal and antagonistic than anything Shepard ever had against anyone, because how mad can you REALLY get at machines that are simply following their programming? Or a dude who is being mind-controlled by a machine following its programming? The Archon chose to be an asshole, so much so that even his own people were sick of it. That’s worth something.

Your twin: I have to say, I was super hyped for this when I first heard about it. The notion of the other-gender Ryder existing simultaneously with you as your sibling, such that both male and female Ryders get to be canon characters? Loved it. Tons of potential to do new and interesting things here. Then they kept her in a coma for 75% of the game. *cough* Just a huge waste. Really hoping they have some good ideas for how to manage this in the sequels. So much potential for it to be awesome. It%u2019s a shame that they barely even tried to make it awesome in this one.
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The bad:

Pointless, forced, F2P elements: I’m actually shocked people aren’t talking about this more, because it really is the low-hanging fruit that nobody could possibly defend. They don’t even make any sense in the context of this game. For as much grief as WoW got for doing this, at least it made SOME sense in context of the plot and in context of MMOs needing to keep you hooked because they want those subscription fees. In the context of this game, it adds nothing and makes no sense whatsoever. It’s like someone said, “Hey, why don’t we have a thing where you check in every 45 minutes and get some (yet again, too small to actually matter in any way whatsoever) rewards? All the big games these days have that! We need to have it too!” without ANY thought whatsoever as to whether or not it actually adds value to the experience.

The research/development system (and inventory/loadout management in general): This is just clunky and messy. Very bad UI. I get that the scanner is designed to enhance the “exploration” feel of this game, but it’s just not very intuitive and ends up feeling like work. There needs to be a better way to research new weapons/mods/whatever, compare them against what you have, equip them right away, etc. This one feels like a giant leap backwards for the series. By trying to bring back SOME of the complexity of ME1 but not updating the UI/loadout-based system, it’s like they’ve achieved the true worst of both worlds.

Squadmate control/customization: This is another area where we’ve taken a step back. The lack of manual control over squadmate powers is annoying as hell, and makes it harder to setup combos and such. Also makes squadmate selection far less relevant. More than any other game, I feel like it doesn’t really matter who I bring, because it’s hard to notice what they’re actually providing. Combat is generally so hectic I don’t even really notice when they activate their powers and whether their powers are actually helping. Oh, and you also can’t change their weapons, armor, or appearance, at all. Very disappointing.

Difficulty curve: Worst in the series probably. Far worse than 2/3, maybe similar to 1 I guess. I don’t know to what extent enemies scale with your level, but it’s not nearly enough. The more you play, the more powers you get, the more weapons you get, the more you understand how the game works, the easier everything gets, period. I think the hardest part of the game for me was going at the Kett base on Voeld (maybe I did it too early, but still). I literally died as many times (once) on the first enemy encounter in the game as I did on the final boss. This was on hardcore. Maybe it’s better on insanity? I don’t know, but there’s definitely a point midway through where you go from “holy shit this is hard I’m dying a ton” to “I am an unstoppable army that steamrolls through multiple boss-level opponents with no problem” seemingly in an instant. It also doesn’t help that among the three main sets of enemies you face, the Kett are by far the hardest, and also the ones you face earliest/most often. You don’t even meet the outlaws (the easiest enemies by far) until about halfway through the game, making them seem like trivial pushovers. The balancing definitely could have used a lot more work.
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good analysis, isn't really anything to debate
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Up. Hopefully more than one person reads this <_<
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http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-apologizes-for-mass-effect-andromedas-hainly-abrams-character/

um what

I noticed this and never really gave it a second thought. What is even insensitive or wrong about this? I seriously don't understand?
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I never played the game but the blurb in the article does read as if it's bad writing. I don't think it's insensitive or 'wrong', just seems to be forced. But then context could be key, and I have none here.

Could also just be PC whining. Either way, w/e.
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Peridiam posted...

I never played the game but the blurb in the article does read as if it's bad writing. I don't think it's insensitive or 'wrong', just seems to be forced. But then context could be key, and I have none here.

Could also just be PC whining. Either way, w/e.

I mean, it's KINDA forced. It's also literally some random NPC you never even have to talk to. Even using the word "character" exaggerates their importance.

But what exactly is the alternative? How can you have a transgender character without them, at some point, telling you they are transgendered.
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You can make it a lot more subtle. The issue is that what said character says is forced, it's cliche. Perhaps it doesn't seem very realistic.

But then I wouldn't expect BioWare to be very subtle anyway.
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Peridiam posted...

You can make it a lot more subtle. The issue is that what said character says is forced, it's cliche. Perhaps it doesn't seem very realistic.

But then I wouldn't expect BioWare to be very subtle anyway.

How?

EXACTLY how? Give me a line you could use.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Peridiam posted...

You can make it a lot more subtle. The issue is that what said character says is forced, it's cliche. Perhaps it doesn't seem very realistic.

But then I wouldn't expect BioWare to be very subtle anyway.

How?

EXACTLY how? Give me a line you could use.

From what I read, the plan is to make it so they don't let you know they're trans until they've gotten to know you instead of just telling you early on. Haven't seen the scene myself and don't feel like looking it up right now.
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From what I read, the plan is to make it so they don't let you know they're trans until they've gotten to know you instead of just telling you early on. Haven't seen the scene myself and don't feel like looking it up right now.

Unless I really missed something (and I take a pretty completionist attitude towards these games), they NEVER get to know you. They're a random throwaway NPC that has about 20 seconds worth of dialogue (and even that is optional). Someone rushing through the game and not going out of their way to talk to everyone they can see would most likely never talk to her at all. They aren't even on your ship, they're in the med-bay of your starting ship that stays parked at the nexus all game. It's an area you only return to maybe 2-3 times throughout the entire course of the game (and never to see/talk to her specifically). She has less relevance to the overall plot than any named character I can think of in the series.

My conspiracy theory suspicion here is that the real "offense" is that Bioware chose to make its token transgender character insufficiently important. Given that it's impossible to subtly tell someone you're transgender in twenty seconds, the only "fix" is to make them a much bigger character with three minutes worth of dialogue instead.
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A trans person is never going to casually refer to themselves by their old name. I think the character was well intentioned, but poorly executed due to lack knowledge about the subject.
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Worse than people complaining about this: People who join silver MP matches as level 1s.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Peridiam posted...

You can make it a lot more subtle. The issue is that what said character says is forced, it's cliche. Perhaps it doesn't seem very realistic.

But then I wouldn't expect BioWare to be very subtle anyway.

How?

EXACTLY how? Give me a line you could use.

"hey i'm gary nice to meet you"

but below the surface gary used to be a girl

boom

gary the trans
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How do you know below the surface gary used to be a girl?
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because we were once lovers in my fanfic
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they should do it like trails in the sky where at first you just get a little intro to them

then after a major event you learn a little more about them/they say something different

rinse and repeat

TLOU did this with kinda with Bill. you meet Bill but have no idea he's gay, it's not even relevant. then you escape to his house only to find his partner frank hung himself. of course in this context 'partner' could just mean survival partner, kinda like joel & ellie. it is the apocalypse. that's what i initially thought. >->

but then later ellie finds a playgirl-esque magazine in the back of his truck. nobody says bill is gay but it's completely implied.
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Did you miss the part where this is a random nothing NPC that appears once? Significantly more minor than Bill. There is no "you learn a little bit more about them." They aren't important enough for that.

It seems you are indirectly agreeing with my thesis that the real crime here is having a transgender character that isn't really important and critical to the plot.

Honestly, the REAL political outrage in this game is the Gil/Jill situation. WTF is going on there exactly?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr4dvEGqDtw

dang, theyre actually still working on stuff like making peoples eyes more realistic

thats kinda surprising, but cool
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Experiencing a lot more MP gliches (mostly that crash the game) AFTER the patch than I ever did before

:(
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save
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Every time I play this game and start to think "oh man, it's actually fun!", the game throws a tantrum and yells "NO! I'M NOT FUN!"

I landed on Eos. My first instincts, as usual, are to explore. Do every possible sidequest before I do the main mission. The game says "No. Too much radiation. Go fix it first." Okay. I do the main mission on Eos. I find the three monoliths and locate the vault. I'm done now. Ready to explore my first Andromeda world. The game says "No. The atmosphere needs time to clear. Go back to the Nexus." Okay. I take my ship and fly back to the Tempest. I talk to a lot of people there, pick/do some quests and talk to Tann. The mission gets completed. Time to fly back to Eos and do the sidemissions!

The game says "No. There's still a lot of radiation. Play a bit more until it's not a thing or you can upgrade to not care."

WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF THIS GAME?! Why would you make a game that is so thematically centered on the fucking exploration of a fucking new galaxy AND THEN MAKE IT SUCH A FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS TO EXPLORE?! The game has grinded itself into a hopeless slog of realism, in the way GTA would do if it gave you a wanted level every single time you did anything that could be considered breaking the wall. "Oh well planets can have radiation" DON'T FUCKING LET ME EXPLORE THEM THEN! IT'S JUST A DRAG! "Oh, well, the search thing in Inquisition was kinda silly and illogical, let's give them a scanner now." YOU KNOW WHAT THE SEARCH THINGS WAS? IT WAS QUICK AND EASY TO USE, UNLIKE THIS STUPID SCANNER THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME HINTS ON WHAT I SHOULD BE LOOKING AT AND IS SLOW AS FUCK TO PULL OUT AND WALK AROUND WITH! "Oh man, remember when we had that piece of shit vehicle the Mako in ME1? lelelelel. Yeah, good thing we fixed it in ME2 DLC with the Hammerhead, right? A shame we never used in the main game..."

WHY THE FUCK IS THE NOMAD SUCH A PIECE OF SHIT? ITS JUMP IS USELESS! WHAT'S THE GAMEPLAY POINT OF SHIFTING YOUR WHEELS? WHY NOT MAKE IT EASY FOR ME TO DRIVE?

I'm so bummed out. I feel like this game at every point is just working against me. I can appreciate the core concept and idea behind it, but it's just not fun to play.
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You can still explore plenty on Eos even with the radiation! It's not nearly as limiting as it seems if you actually try. (Although it's worth noting that a lot of the sidequests literally will not unlock until later, which is a much more legit complaint). Eos is also the worst planet in this regard, pretty sure on every other planet, everything is unlocked from the start. There will still be environmental hazards, but as I said, you can power through them.

The Nomad is fine. I'll admit that the switching of drive modes isn't strictly necessary, but it does require you to pay a little more attention and take a little more active role in driving around. It's not necessary, but it never felt "bad" either. Just stay in 4WD when on flat ground or going downhill, and pop into 6WD when you need to climb something. Yes jump is useless, but you never really need it. Boost is pretty useful though. Boost in 6WD can climb a lot more than you might expect.
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SmartMuffin posted...

But what exactly is the alternative? How can you have a transgender character without them, at some point, telling you they are transgendered.

There's a few games that do this, and I'm sure a ton of stories in other media. Not exactly rocket science (which incidentally this game DOES do well).
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Even when the character only gets 20 seconds of dialogue?

Like, I could understand the outrage if this was an actual squadmate that you spent a ton of time with over the course of the game and their third sentence upon meeting you was "BY THE WAY I USED TO BE A MAN" That would be stupid, obvs.

But I feel like "You have 20 seconds to ensure a stranger finds out you are transgendered and also you have to be really subtle about it - GO" is an impossible ask.
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SmartMuffin posted...

You can still explore plenty on Eos even with the radiation! It's not nearly as limiting as it seems if you actually try. (Although it's worth noting that a lot of the sidequests literally will not unlock until later, which is a much more legit complaint). Eos is also the worst planet in this regard, pretty sure on every other planet, everything is unlocked from the start. There will still be environmental hazards, but as I said, you can power through them.

The Nomad is fine. I'll admit that the switching of drive modes isn't strictly necessary, but it does require you to pay a little more attention and take a little more active role in driving around. It's not necessary, but it never felt "bad" either. Just stay in 4WD when on flat ground or going downhill, and pop into 6WD when you need to climb something. Yes jump is useless, but you never really need it. Boost is pretty useful though. Boost in 6WD can climb a lot more than you might expect.

I know I can drive around, but everything over Rad 3 is just not happening. Also, sorry. The little more attention while driving, I don't care. I'm not playing Forza. I never used the horse in Inquisition to get around from place to place because I wanted to explore. That's what the Nomad should be fuelling. My desire to investigate. It should be a thing that gets me from place to place quickly, not a gameplay element.

The mining computer on the Nomad is also just as bad as the fucking scanner. Gah, I hate it so much.
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The good news is, neither the mining computer nor the scanning is needed AT ALL. You can get all the materials you need by disassembling gear that drops, easily.
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SmartMuffin posted...

You have 20 seconds to ensure a stranger finds out you are transgendered

I mean this is the problem. Why do you need to ENSURE the player knows? That just reeks of blatant tokenism, and obviously will draw criticism.
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foolm0r0n posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

You have 20 seconds to ensure a stranger finds out you are transgendered

I mean this is the problem. Why do you need to ENSURE the player knows? That just reeks of blatant tokenism, and obviously will draw criticism.

Well there is no choice in this dialogue. It's just three scripted lines. Your choices are "make it obvious you have a transgender character" or "you don't have a transgender character."

I guess the third option is "you make no particular reference to it at all and then word of god comes around and says 'they were transgender all along'" but that just seems to piss EVERYONE off in the end
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The obvious answer is yes, this minor character should not have referenced their gender at all and if they wanted to do that they should have done with a more important character.
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redrocket_pub posted...

if they wanted to do that they should have done with a more important character.

Thanks, nice of someone to admit my original thesis was 100% correct.

This is why the very first thing you learn is "never try to appease SJWs"
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too bad bioware doesn't get that
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I mean, this is just common sense? You have to do it with a character that has an actual relationship with the main character, because people just don't drop that info on random strangers they just met.
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they do in mediocre bioware games
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SmartMuffin posted...

Well there is no choice in this dialogue. It's just three scripted lines. Your choices are "make it obvious you have a transgender character" or "you don't have a transgender character."

Or "if you don't know how to do it, don't instead put shitty tokenized writing in your game"

Although dunning kruger might prevent that from being an option
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Krem in DA I was basically transgender and the way that game handled it was fine. DA I has a lot of (massive) problems, but its cast isn't one of them.

And me, well, I'm still more frustrated than happy with Andromeda.
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It is kinda weird that, as SJW as Bioware is, there isn't more racial diversity. Or I guess I should say, there's diversity, but the representation levels are super unrealistic. In a futuristic story where humanity has united under one world government to explore the stars, it's super weird that you ever only meet like, one Chinese person, one Indian person, etc. But of course there's always one Irish person and one Scottish person too. As if in the future the Irish will be equally represented in the one-world government space Navy as the Chinese?

Is Firefly the only sci-fi series to actually address this?
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Firefly is the only one that didn't get money from the minority illuminati
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So basically BioWare is having a token problem.

Never would have guessed that.
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when you first meet the krogan shes like IM A KROGAN come on bioware stop being so racist as if any krogan would actually just come out and say that?
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I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would, but I'm still not enjoying it enough. They didn't learn enough from Inquisition's (many) mistakes, it's just a mess production-wise and the writing is such a mixed bag.
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SmartMuffin posted...

when you first meet the krogan shes like IM A KROGAN come on bioware stop being so racist as if any krogan would actually just come out and say that?

I mean do you actually think you are making a valid point here or is this just a poor attempt at humor?
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SmartMuffin posted...

when you first meet the krogan shes like IM A KROGAN

This is why like 90% of ME1's dialogue was garbage
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