Board 8 > Tuesday was a true victory for all gamers. [rant]

(+) Yeah! (+)

You were doing good, but then Miranda!

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Miranda is always good.

Haters gonna hate.

--
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/8/22/2094c2de-bae8-4f5b-9f27-67eaff0aaeaf.jpg

I did? CHALK ANOTHER WIN FOR THE LIARAMANCERS.

And as for romance options, Liara has been the only one I've really stuck with. I've been FemShep exclusive for every playthrough, so in ME1, it's either Liara or Kaiden. I've tried all of her romance options in ME2. Jacob's is unsurprisingly boring and Garrus's is awesome, but it's built on humor, not touching affection. The only one I really liked from an emotional point of view was Thane's.

Liara is the only character who gets three games to build a romantic relationship with Shep and gets some very moving scenes in ME3. Does Miranda really rival that? >_>

--
Yoblazer: http://i44.tinypic.com/5nw45i.jpg
Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!

From: LeonhartFour | #050
I seem to remember you expressing some sort of interest in asari sweat when you first learned of that Tali topic, Mr. Blazer.

Regardless, Tali > Miranda > Liara > LOL FemShep romance options > Ashley > Jack > Kelly as far as ME romances go
The Garrus and Thane romances are pretty cool, man. (As is FemShep/Liara, for that matter, but yeah.)

Also, Ash's and Jack's are fine, but you have an over-the-top hatred of Jack.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

From: PartOfYourWorld | #053
Jacob's is unsurprisingly boring
But the priiiiiize

Liara is the only character who gets three games to build a romantic relationship with Shep and gets some very moving scenes in ME3. Does Miranda really rival that? >_>
Honestly, in ME2, I preferred Liara's scenes if you dumped her for somebody else more than the scenes you got in Shadow Broker if you stayed faithful to her. That's not really a good sign of a top notch romance, at least to me! Don't get me wrong. I have a Liaramancer file, and I think she's got some good stuff, but I like Miranda a lot for reasons that are almost exclusively tied to her relationship with Shepard, so yeah. But Tali's romance generally feels sweet and very heartfelt, at least from her perspective, so that's tops for me.

--
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo22vfguji1qzxr43.gif

From: Jeff Zero | #054
Also, Ash's and Jack's are fine, but you have an over-the-top hatred of Jack.
Hey, Jack's pretty all right in ME3.

But I don't like the angle they took with that romance in ME2, which probably is a contributing factor to why I don't like her that much to begin with. Ashley, I just never had an interest in a romance with her, so meh.

And of course, Kelly is dead last because my Shepard ain't gettin' no scale itch, man.

--
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo22vfguji1qzxr43.gif

Fair enough! Ash's romance really is kind of meh, but I'd certainly put it above, say, Jacob's.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Tali is much better than Liara, yeah. I don't think any of them feel particularly meaningful, but Tali's is definitely best. It probably helps Tali is a better character!

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

But the priiiiiize

Darn it, I can't help it every time somebody mentions Jacobmancing.

But yeah, Jacob probably deserves to be dead last just for how it all went down in ME3 alone.

--
http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif

Tali is excellent in ME2 and ME3, but in ME1 she is literally a walking codex who almost got shot a couple of times.

Liara wins in ME1, I'd say.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Liara is a snoozefest in ME1. Tali's not special in ME1, but she's more interesting.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

From: ZFS | #061
Liara is a snoozefest in ME1. Tali's not special in ME1, but she's more interesting.
I enjoy Liara in ME1. :( She's nothing special, but her confrontation with her mother was nice, and her genuine impact on the crew after-mission scenes was vital to the plot.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I'd comment on ME1, but considering I only watched an LP of it, I don't want to come across LMSish.

--
"Why must we always choose between certain death and probable death?"
"I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!"

Honestly, I think Liara is pretty boring in general. She's never stood out to me at all, outside of Shadow Broker. Even the NPC Asari left a bigger impact.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Haha, damn stupid blue highlighting. I just realized I thought Yoblazer and ZFS were the same person for a few posts, and I was getting increasingly confused about the apparent opinion of someone who chalked a win to Liaramancers, then said she was boring!

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I like Liara quite a bit in ME2 and ME3.

To be quite honest with you, I was hoping for a bit more with the romance in ME3 considering she's with you the whole game, so I was slightly disappointed there. I guess it's because I did my Liaramance file last, and I went through the first two playthroughs thinking, "You know, I bet that scene will be nice when I play my Liara file," and for the most part, those scenes don't change a whole lot.

--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

So, anyone else here care about the Leviathan of Dis files some fans found in the Extended Cut database and the subsequent potential for another batarian-centric DLC that does them more justice? I really liked them in Bring Down The Sky, but they haven't had much real depth since, and Arrival totally dropped the ball on them.

Yeah, unlike most Mass Effect fans I actually like the batarians. They're mostly asses, sure, but I dig the whole oppressed society trope and such.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I want some drell-related DLC.

--
"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

She's down there with the Kaidans of the world for me. She's not as bad, but man every time she talks it's just zzz. None of the female characters in ME are particularly great, now that I think about it. Tali's probably the exception, though Ashley in ME3 was kinda cool. Understandably too little too late for most.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

BioWare's female characters wipe the floor with the majority of female characters in gaming, IMO. There are obvious exceptions on both ends, but I feel like they're generally relatively strong and independent, and aren't completely doe-eyed toward the hero.

Of course, BioWare games being so focused on said hero, they do get kinda doe-eyed, but some of the men do too, so it's not so bad. Plus, there are plenty of gamers out there who revel in that 'attention', so it's smart marketing.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Eh, I don't know about that. Bioware's female characters are pretty much on par with other RPG females. They certainly don't stand out above the crowd, anyway. I don't think other companies do a better job, though. Square's are as bad or worse!

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

I like several of Square's, but on the whole, yeah, there's that traditionalist Japanese undertone where most of them don't wanna live~ without a man~ going on to a greater extent than most of their male characters get with the women.

Oh boy, so much I could say on the gender equality topic in gaming. Generally I keep my mouth shut though because I think it's safe to say most of Board 8 doesn't want to hear it!

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I don't think that's the issue so much as they're just boring. You can make the women independent, but that doesn't necessarily make them good, interesting characters.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

FF and ME have probably produced the only female characters I really like a whole lot!

Well, Street Fighter has a couple, too, now that I think about it.

So yeah, those three.

Oh right, Ace Attorney as well.

So yeah. Four.

*thinks*

Yep. Four.

--
http://img.imgcake.com/leonpngpe.png
http://img.imgcake.com/squalloweenpngem.png

A lot of writers don't seem to really know how to write women when we get right down to it. The fact that the writers are mostly male is obviously a culprit, but hell man, so many women have such similar passions, aims, goals, thoughts, tangents as so many men in this world and there's this giant socially spawned wall that claims otherwise. We are not the same, but we are less dissimilar than we're made out to be, and I feel like that's a golden rule in writing women that so many of these game scriptwriters just don't get, really

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I don't think any one series has made female characters I really enjoy. I like one or two here and there--Lara Croft, The Boss, Samus, Alice, Seth, Ashe, Tali--but never a lot from one game or series.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

From what I've played, I'd say those are pretty good choices, at least.

Did you find something wrong with Para-Medic? I only ask because you mentioned The Boss. Was there just not enough to her in MGS3 for you to really find her noteworthy? I could understand that; The Boss is clearly the standout female in that game. But I thought she was fantastic as well and it really highlights the juxtaposition Kojima has with writing female characters. Some can be somewhat eye-rolling, whereas others are powerful, kickass, eye-opening, deeply moving characters (The Boss) and others are quirky, entertaining, considerate characters (Para-Meidc).

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Para-Medic is quality. Same with EVA. Alright, maybe MGS3 is the exception!

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Ha. :D

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Kojima was at the top of his game when he worked on that one.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

No arguments there man.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

It's all about those odd numbers. MGS5 watch out world

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Metal Gear Solid is the anti-Trek film curse, huh? Well Kojima's twitter does claim that (some percentage I forgot) of his life is movies, so I guess it makes sense.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Mei Ling best MGS female

--
"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"

o_o

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

I know I'm a bit of a weirdo in this department, especially considering MGS3 is my favorite game in the series, but I find The Boss to be kinda overrated.

Well, not really overrated, per se. I understand why people like her, and it's justified. I just don't share in the love to THAT extent.

--
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.png
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png

That's fine, that's fine, and I... don't dislike Mei Ling at all or anything, it's just that I... I just...

I think there are like five or six MGS females better than her, that's... that's all.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Five or six?

Well, I guess E.E. is up there, too.

--
http://i.minus.com/iH9vIGOBoyTQ2.gif

Mei Ling what the !

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Pffft Paz > Amanda

--
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/26leonpngat.png
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/daigohadoupnguj.png

Sniper Wolf is great. Top 3 for the series, I'd say.

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

LeonhartFour posted...

Pffft Paz > Amanda

no winners here

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

From: LeonhartFour | #091
Pffft Paz > Amanda
Paz is not all that great.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

From: LeonhartFour | #088
Five or six?

Well, I guess E.E. is up there, too.
The Boss, Para-Medic, EVA, Sniper Wolf (she's clearly got issues but somehow comes across as a smart and cool woman despite her... anyway), and I totally have an excellent opinion of Naomi that is not shared by most fans and I completely understand why, and they butcher her writing-wise at times, but when she's good I love her.

Also, Amanda is pretty cool.

--
K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K
"we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8

Paz is pretty good, especially in her confession stuff. So is Amanda. They both look pretty cute in their swimwear, too.

Cecile, too, but that's about all she's got going for her.

--
"The great GF...Bahamut."
"...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..."

cecile better than either one!

--
the dreamer of improbable dreams

Tali steals the show in Mass Effect 2 with the best combo of recruitment + loyalty quests (rivaled only by Mordin, maybe). ME1 is Liara's, though. Of the six teammates, she is the most pivotal to the main plot, and as one of only three love interests, she gets the most dialogue of anyone besides Kaiden and Ashley, and who'd wanna speak to them anyway. Tali might actually have the fewest lines of the squad, and her importance to the plot ends as soon as they leave the Citadel.

Liara is naive in the first game, but it just serves to make her growth throughout the series that much more compelling and, in my opinion, satisfying. Liara really was just a brilliant archaeologist forced to adapt to a frightening new world, and she did it like a boss.

As for ME3, Liara was with Shep from the start, whereas Tali doesn't even appear until like 70% through the game, and she and her peeps are outclassed by Legion and the geth when they do show up. For the leading ladies, I'd say it GOES

ME1: Liara
ME2: Tali
ME3: Liara

They are absolutely the top two female teammates, though. Jack's character had wonderful closure in ME3, but she doesn't compete with these two. Kasumi might have been the best ME2 character OF ALL, but she got the royal shaft in the last time, and sorry Leon, but I think most fans would agree that Ms. Lawson isn't even in the discussion.

As for the male squaddies, I'd say the only guy who can even be mentioned alongside Garrus is Mordin. Legion is also amazing, but he shows up too late in both games, and his big moment isn't as powerful as Mordin's.

--
Yoblazer: http://oi42.tinypic.com/15douf9.jpg
Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!

From: PartOfYourWorld | #097
Tali might actually have the fewest lines of the squad, and her importance to the plot ends as soon as they leave the Citadel.
Importance shimportance

I could listen to her talk about quarian civilization all day long

--
http://img.imgcake.com/leonpngpe.png
http://img.imgcake.com/squalloweenpngem.png

From: PartOfYourWorld | #097
and sorry Leon, but I think most fans would agree that Ms. Lawson isn't even in the discussion.
Yeah, well, most fans would be wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time!

--
http://www.miscupload.com/upload/452457071929141623517416.gif

Also Thane is the best male squadmate

Sorry all you Garrus/Mordin/Legion dudes

--
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2369/mythbattlers.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png