Seems to me that FF is such a divisive series these days, there's just no way square is going to live up to all the expectations on the next one. There will be disappointed people regardless.
Maybe the best thing for square to do is to just take a break from FF development for a while. That way they can put the FF people on smaller projects where they aren't expected to make the game that square apparently failed to make for 15 years. And who knows, without the FF pressure on them, maybe they can actually make an interesting game.
It almost seems like to an extent they've been following your advice lately, but that probably just boils down to their absolutely ridiculous development cycles this past several years.
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this one, but my main issue with Japanese companies nowadays (not just Square and FF, though they are included in this) is quantity, not quality. I am tired of the long waits between mainline releases. Now compare that to a lot of western companies this gen. Look at how many western series managued to churn out at least three mainline games in this generation: Uncharted, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, as well as some of those series this board hates like Call of Duty and the like. I know a lot of people cry overkill on stuff like AC and CoD, but I would rather have games than no games (I'm sure someone will say they'd rather have no games than bad games, but I am relatively easy to please, so I usually like what gets put out from my favorite series).
Seriously, how many major Japanese series managed to put put at least three games this gen? Mario managed it. FF technically managed it when we include the disaster that is XIV. Maybe I'm just tired and not thinking clearly here, but it seems like western companies are getting big games out and Japanese companies aren't.
--
"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."
Quantity is a big problem, and yeah, I'll totally disagree with you and say that quality is the bigger issue with SE, but there's no arguing that they have a quantity issue as well.
That's the really piss-all scenario, is for fellas like me, who feel like they're failing at both. That's just... fail, man.
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
Their development culture just isn't suited to handling the incredible amount of hands and co-ordination needed to develop AAA HD games (though the problems at SE are worse than that, and go back to FFXII, if not before).
-- We are living our lives Abound with so much information
Yeah, really once gaming made the jump to HD, a lot of Japanese companies fell apart in regard to... a lot of things, but especially production scheduling. SE is the golden, shiny wire of perfect example for this, and has other issues as well.
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
Maybe Square Enix should quit focusing so much on raw presentation in their games?
The issue with Japanese companies taking too long to churn out major releases seems present with other companies as well. Vanquish took 3 years to develop, and from what I've heard that game ended up being a 4-6 hour cover shooter (that played like no other such game, granted) with a skeleton of a story and no multiplayer.
I don't what Wada is saying. There have been at least 4 FF games after FFVII and 2 before that were far better than it. Just sort of seems like he's using it as an excuse to say "We're never remaking it so please quit bugging us." to me.
They're pretty much stuck in an impossible situation. JRPGs have really declined unfortunately and Square in general has been losing fans who feel they've gone into a bad direction. It'll be tough for them to make anything on the same level of worldwide appeal and even if they do when they remake FF7 it'd be upgraded to current gen standard which they say would take a lot of time and resources. There will undoubtedly be people unhappy with the remake as well and it likely won't see the same success or appeal the original had.
From: Jeff Zero | #051 It almost seems like to an extent they've been following your advice lately, but that probably just boils down to their absolutely ridiculous development cycles this past several years. but they released FFXIII-2 this year and there are already rumors on an FFXIII-3 happening as well!
when I say they should take a break on FF development I don't just mean the main titles!
I think it's more like they hate losing money. Sure a lot of people don't like new Square stuff much, but it seems to do pretty well still. Didn't FFXIII hit 6 million plus copies worldwide? Remaking FF7 would be a huge and costly project that I don't believe will be the colossal Square-saving money maker everybody else seems to think it will be. It'll do well yeah, but FF7 released at the perfect time and today things are pretty different for the genre. Also Square is really slow these days and 2 years ago they claimed remaking VII up to XIII's level would take 3-4 decades. If they remake it they'll be going all out so I could see them spending a really long time on it.
I don't think a remake has ever done as well as the original either.
Translating a PS1 game to PS3 is not just a simple task of upgrading sounds and graphics. The entire gameplay system would have to be changed, because regular old ATB turn-based just does not fly anymore.
It wouldn't take them longer than a current mainline FF. Just like they said 'HD towns are hard,' they simply gave an excuse for why they don't want to make it. FFVII is still one of the top selling PSN games every month, so regardless of people's feelings about FF now, they still love the old games.
Even if it's an excuse I wouldn't find it hard to believe it would take them a long time. I don't think it would take the 10 times longer than FFXIII they claimed, but I could see it taking at least 5 years even having everything they already need. They'd need to upgrade all the visuals like attacks, character models, cities and the world map itself. I could see an HD world map especially taking a while to reach their quality standard!
Maybe us fans wouldn't care, but that kind of things doesn't sell.
It's one thing to pay 10 dollars to play it on PSN, but no one's gonna pay 60 bucks unless it feels like a game made today.
Things like world maps and pre-rendered backgrounds obviously don't fly anymore, as does turn-based gameplay with lots of more action-oriented bells and whistles.
Not really. I mean, if you want characters to do the whole walk around in between turns thing you can, but the core of the battle system can stay the same. Changing it would get more criticism than praise, because those aren't changes people want. Making a high production remake doesn't mean making FFXIII again. No one wants that.
Anything they do will get unwanted change anyways. People won't want a fixed script that takes out stuff like "This guy are sick.", some won't want HD graphics, some won't want voice acting. There's no way to remake the game without upsetting somebody with a change anyways! I'm not saying it needs to copy XIII's system, but it would be weird if they just stand like they usually do while having HD graphics for some reason.
Turn-based action was a product of the limitations of older systems.
Huge HD models just standing there is weird because it can be made more engaging now. Of course it doesn't have to have FFXIII's system, but it can't be the same.
I'm sure no one wants random battles anymore either.
An argument that they have to make changes to the gameplay in order to sell it is an argument that it should never be made in the first place. A FF VII remake with anything more than tweaks to the gameplay would be a bigger disaster than Duke Nukem Forever.
--
From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
Turn-based battle systems weren't a limitation of the PS2, but many popular RPGs had them. Lost Odyssey is the most successful new JRPG on a console this gen, and it featured turn-based battles where characters stood in two rows. There's nothing weird about it. I don't think many would agree that an action battle system is the modern answer for JRPGs. People fondly remember FFX and FFIX. You can bring modern ideas to old mechanics.
Some maybe interesting info from FF staff. “We are also thinking that we will not do large-scale internal development any longer,” Toriyama said. “We have a lot of great creators in Square Enix, but for larger-scale development we will be doing more distributed and outsourced development to reach our targets on time.”
Final Fantasy XIII had over 200 people working on it: 180 artists, 30 programmers, and 36 game designers. Having a team of that size made managing communication and user-testing difficult. Square decided they would resolve these issues with XIII-2 by adopting western technology and western production techniques learnt through GDC and through Eidos, which is now owned by Square Enix.
“We feel like we need to add more buffer time for player testing in the future,” Toriyama admitted. “We improved for FFXIII-2, but it’s still not enough time to add everything we learn back into the game.”
I wonder if they'll start doing this for FFvs13 since it is taking an eternity to get anywhere.
Toriyama's presentation ended not with Final Fantasy XIII or XIII-2, but with Final Fantasy VII. During a Q&A session, an attendee asked when a Final Fantasy VII remake will be released. Toriyama replied by mentioning the recent quote from Square Enix CEO Yoichi Wada saying that Square Enix won't make an FFVII remake until they've made a game that surpasses FFVII. He joked, "As a creator, there's a bit in there that I can't agree with."
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
So... can we all just agree to give rave reviews to whatever the next FF is? Don't worry about actually playing it, just buy it and give it a 9.7-10. Then they'll have to remake FF7.
-- SuperNiceDog didn't have to reconcile his name... But Dauntless Hunter is now MrGreenonion
From: MrGreenonion | #083 So... can we all just agree to give rave reviews to whatever the next FF is? Don't worry about actually playing it, just buy it and give it a 9.7-10. Then they'll have to remake FF7. Sure. And if it's from Itou, I might actually play it as well.
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
Toriyama's presentation ended not with Final Fantasy XIII or XIII-2, but with Final Fantasy VII. During a Q&A session, an attendee asked when a Final Fantasy VII remake will be released. Toriyama replied by mentioning the recent quote from Square Enix CEO Yoichi Wada saying that Square Enix won't make an FFVII remake until they've made a game that surpasses FFVII. He joked, "As a creator, there's a bit in there that I can't agree with."
Toriyama is the last person at SE who has a right to disagree with Wada's statement >_>
--
"One of these days, I'm gonna find a loophole my friend." - Man in Black
I never said it was a reason they wouldn't remake it. I listed it as a thing some people might be displeased about with a remake because it's impossible to remake it and satisfy every fan the original had.
That is actually the one thing I am legitimately concerned about -- and you're probably right, too. But... I have ways of dealing with such things in my head.
-- K | H | A | Q | Q | A | H | K "we're about 50 years behind the rest of western society." -icon on B8
All I know is that they're going to mess with the story to fit Compilation canon, so let's just forget the whole thing.
They already did, so badly (Crisis Core spoilers) When Genesis's clones attacked the Nibelheim reactor, and Tifa witnessed all of it, a part of me died inside. Not to mention Genesis being there in the first place...
This thread actually got me to seriously consider playing through FF7 for the first time sometime soon. For now, I'd still rather play MGS1 or OOT though.