Roger and Cruella are the best characters, helped in large part by the iconic song (maybe the most iconic Disney villain song, even if it isn't the best one by any means). I agree with the chase scene; it really showcases just how demented and driven Cruella is, nothing really screams evil like the remorseless killing of innocent baby animals. I personally didn't find Horace and Jasper all that bad, in the long list of "bumbling minions" anyway.
Pongo's a bit overrated and he and Perdita are basically Mr. and Mrs. Mary Sue. I never really dislike that type of character, but without any individual flares I never develop much connection to them either.
But yeah, Cruella needed more screentime. Her scenes were the best. From the intro and song, to her hunting for the puppies to the chase scene. Actually somewhat underrated as far as the villains go, surprisingly enough given how she is most likely one of the most well known in general culture.
I was going to place Rolly as the worst character just because of how he basically exists solely to whine about being hungry and screw things up, but switched it to Horace and Jasper at the last minute.
Rolly is indeed the worst. I'd place Robin Hood slightly over 101 Dalmatians (if only because of Dat Sir Hiss), but agree with the placement. It's not really that bad, but it doesn't stand up to the rest of the canon.
Btw, has Atlantis showed up yet? If not, for shame. That is the only really bad movie left.
Disney downsized its animation department right before 101 Dalmatians, and the movie pays a terrible price as the result. More poorly drawn 'Sleeping Beauty' style cutouts, I'm afraid. Only this time without any pretty backgrounds. 101 Dalmatians is a movie very dependent on its villain (and a very good one, too). Cruella has to bear a lot of the load thanks to poor development of the characters on the good guys side, but thankfully, he simple fact of wanting to see this vile woman get what is coming to her is more then enough to make a good story. A decent movie, but not going any higher then this.
Best Character: Cruella De Vil
She's one of Disney's most evil and memorable villains, and thankfully she wasn't changed much from the way she was in the book.
Worst Character: Anita Radcliffe
Anita's role in this movie is the same as 99% of female Disney characters from the classic era - stand around all pretty and proper, and have no personality.
-- SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.
As far as objectively bad movies, for my tastes the only one left is Oliver & Company, so here's hoping it's that. Could also be Treasure Planet; I wouldn't be surprised if there was some product placement in that one. It would at least fit in both of these (even if I don't specifically remember it).
Oliver and Company is often seen as the last film of the era predating the Disney Renaissance. Although it’s not included in the Renaissance, it was the first Disney musical in almost a decade. The soundtrack isn’t anything too special, but a couple great performances by Billy Joel in “Once Upon a Time in New York City” and the big hit “Why Should I Worry” salvage the soundtrack from being forgettable. “Why Should I Worry” is definitely my favorite song from the film, and is a great introduction for Dodger. It also serves to establish the master-protégé relationship between Dodger and Oliver. It’s fun, catchy, lively, and plays an integral part in character development – all elements of a good song.
Where Oliver & Company fails to impress is with the animation. It looks cheap to me, and lacks the feel of a Disney film. I might be alone here, but I’m also not fond of the setting. New York City only adds to the ugliness provided by the animation. That said, it’s interesting to how the two halves of the films are contrasted. The first half seems to be lighthearted and fun, whereas the second half seems to be much darker, ending with a pretty grizzly death. That chase scene was animated very well though, and created plenty of excitement and tension.
The characters in this film are pretty good for the most part. The villains are forgettable and slimy, but they do their job. Fahgin (stupid censor bypass) and his gang of dogs are all pretty good and sympathetic, but a few can get annoying at times. Tito is fine for a while, but near the end of the movie every time he opened his mouth I wanted to fast-forward through the scene. Similar to David Spade playing Kuzco, all I could see with Tito was Cheech Marin and it got old quickly. Despite being in the film’s title, Oliver is entirely forgettable. He’s overshadowed in every scene he’s in and really has no character development or arc. Dodger is the best character, and he’s strongest when he’s building his relationship with Oliver. He shows the kid the ropes in the beginning, but he and Oliver don’t have very many memorable scenes together in the second half. This is one of my least favorite things with the movie, only because I feel like their relationship could have, and should have, been expanded on after it was built up in the first half.
The film does well in building relationships between the characters. The relationship between Jenny and Oliver is believable and sweet, and really makes me feel for both of them when they’re separated. It’s so genuine that I didn’t feel any kind of betrayal when Oliver decided to stay with Jenny as opposed to going back with the gang. They were too good of a match to be kept apart. It’s like Fahgin and his dogs. They obviously care a lot about one another, and to separate them would be cruel. Fahgin was actually my second favorite character of the movie, only because of how sympathetic a criminal he was. He has a sweet relationship with his dogs, and it’s clear he’s just trying to do the right thing by them.
Overall it’s an entertaining film with plenty of lively characters, a couple great songs, and a great chase scene at the end of the film. It’s not the most original story, having been based off of Oliver Twist, but I can’t really hold that against Disney. It also contains a few cameos from other Disney dog films. Peg, Jock and Trusty from Lady and the Tramp all make an appearance during “Why Should I Worry,” as does Pongo from 101 Dalmatians.
I agree with the most part for Oliver and Company. Its animation was pretty lackluster, though I also enjoyed the Streets of Gold song as well as far as the soundtrack goes... but Jenny's song and the song by Georgette were both very... eh. Dodger was my favorite (something I'm pretty sure I made rather clear) and Tito was also my least favorite. I found Oliver to be a bit of a bland for a main protagonist, and wished they had developed him more. I definitely would have ranked it higher, but it could have been much better and I can see why you have it this low.
Although, unlike you, I did kinda get a sense of betrayal when they first "rescued" Oliver from Jenny's home. I got how happy he made her, with her parents never being there and it didn't really show her having friends, but the way Oliver handled it really rubbed me the wrong way. His "I like you, but all I really wanted was a home thing" reminds me of the times when a new kid moves into the school. You start off friends and hit it off pretty well, then everybody finds out he's great at football. Suddenly, he has new, popular friends and completely forgets about the fact that you exist because he "found something better." Really not a great feeling. So yeah, that... coupled with the fact that I really liked Dodger.... definitely made me take Dodger's side during that argument.
Disney's first attempt at being 'hip' and 'edgey', and unfortunately almost as big of a disaster as its recent attempts. To start with, the animation is atrocious in places, almost as if they lent out the animation of non-important scenes to a third party. (hmmm...) What little charm the movie possesses is quickly drained away by its over-obsession with realism, which is something that weighs down the movie and keeps it from ever achieving the essential Disney 'feel'. ...and what is up with all the corporate product placement? Ads for Coca-Cola, USA Today and such have NO place in a Disney movie.
Best Character: Dodger
Normally, I don't like wiseass characters, but they make it work here. Of course, it helps that this sort of character works well in this movie's setting (New York City), as opposed to, say, the African Jungle or Ancient China.
Worst Character: Faygin
He's whiny, annoying, and a jerk. Although he does get better by the end of the movie, but by that time I'm wishing he'd just step in front of a speeding cement mixer and do the whole movie a favor.
-- SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.
I sent a feedback ticket a while ago asking SBAllen to whitelist the actual spelling of Faygin's name (as it is how the character from Oliver Twist is spelled as well), but all he said was "I'll consider it" and nothing has happened yet.
-- darkx 3DS FC: 5241-2144-5671 (add me and pm me urs!) http://i40.tinypic.com/mabj1t.gif
If not for Dodger she would be my favorite character from the movie! Disney is often too black and white to be... believable you know? It could use more neutral characters like Georgette who aren't actively trying to hurt others but only do things for their own gain.
Oliver and Company has a great start, with the great intro song, painting sympathy for Oliver and then leading into Dodger and his song. Sykes first appearance is good and he's very menacing at that point, unfortunately he doesn't do a whole lot else until the very end of the film. I think there was a lot of promise in the movie if they explored the heroes vs. villain storyline a bit more.
Though she's not a "bad" character, Georgette sort of worsens the movie because she's sort of inserted in a way that feels a little forced and takes up too much screentime (along with some of the other secondary animal characters). The film either needs to be longer or they needed to cut down on the dogs.
Best Character: John Silver Worst Character: B.E.N.
I’d like to start by saying that the visual design in Treasure Planet is one of my favorites within the canon. It’s just awesome. It takes the classic work of Treasure Island and throws it in space – not an easy task to make work. Here they do so beautifully, and the meshing of pirates and outer space is a very creative take on Stevenson’s Treasure Island. The scene where everyone is on the ship and trying to avoid the blast of the supernova and subsequent black hole is phenomenal. Even the fight scenes are great to watch, and I love some of the camera effects they used. Like Dinosaur however, despite looking great visually I found some of the other elements pretty mediocre.
The main characters aren’t very strong or memorable in the film, and the relatively weak script didn’t exactly do them any favors. Jim is incredibly angsty, and I found myself rolling my eyes a few times from his antics and whining. His story basically revolves around daddy issues, and really it can get a little tiresome after a while. Thankfully John Silver comes in to fill that hole, and the relationship built between the two of them is one of my favorite things in the film. It’s actually really sweet how the two of them connect so quickly, and John Silver is one of the most caring antagonists you’ll ever see. The montage where I’m Still Here is playing is well done, and I’m glad Disney took the time to build up the relationship between Jim and Silver.
The side characters are much worse than the main ones and ultimately prove to be one of the film’s biggest flaws. I feel like the film awkwardly tries to throw in bits of comedy that ultimately doesn’t mesh well with the setting or other, more serious, characters. One notable example is B.E.N., who is a robot living alone on Treasure Planet. This guy is the Jar-Jar of Treasure Planet, and I hate him for it. He’s loud, obnoxious, and really throws off the vibe of the film. He just doesn’t belong with the rest of the cast. Actually, I take it back. He belongs with the awful alien whose language is flatulence (yay immature humor) and Dr. Dilbert Doppler when he’s making strange hip-hop references and more flatulence jokes. This kind of humor is so prevalent in these characters and it just has no place within the film.
The plot is fine, but a lot of things went unexplained or just didn’t make any sense. For one, why does Jim have a stronger claim to the treasure than the pirates? We’re meant to believe he has the high ground the entire film, but really he just got lucky in that the dying pirate happened to give him the map. The other pirates, or the “villains” of the movie, had likely been searching for the treasure for years and frankly deserved it more than Jim did. And this is just a personal issue I have with the film, but I’m always disappointed in films where the heroes don’t walk away with any of the treasure they’ve been seeking the entire film.
Thankfully the visual display is beautiful and creative enough to get me to overlook some of the immature humor throughout the film. The plot wasn’t always there, but it was always nice to look at. It’s really too bad that this film bombed so hard at the box office. It had a production cost of $140 million and only raked in $38 million domestically. This is in no way representative of the quality of the film, and I wish it had garnered more love both domestically and internationally. It was an innovative and expensive film that Disney took a risk on. Unfortunately its failure probably discouraged more innovation from them out of fear they’d end up with another failure like Treasure Planet. Its financial flop also attributed to Disney’s decision to end traditional animation on its films. I can only wonder the path Disney would have taken if this creative film were more successful instead.
Next Up: One of the few sequels considered as part of the canon
Fun fact: the Treasure Planet DVD I ordered from Amazon arrived yesterday so I'll be watching it tonight. I've been wanting to see it for awhile but never got around to it.
Next one has to be either Rescuers Down Under or Fantasia 2000.
I reeeeeeeally hope it's Fantasia 2000.
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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado
Treasure Planet is what would likely happen if you let George Lucas write and direct a Disney movie. Whiny Hero? Check. Intrusive and unnecessary CGI? Check. Loud and obnoxious sidekick that needs to be run though a woodchipper? Check. Juvenile flatulence jokes? Check. Copious amounts of unappealing and poorly designed aliens? Check. Treasure Planet has a feel very similar to Atlantis, though with more character depth and better animation (where it's not being crapped up with poorly integrated CGI, that is). Like so many of Disney's post-renaissance films, Treasure Planet is simply missing the essential Disney charm. All in all, this was a movie that had a promising concept, but stumbled badly in the execution.
Best Character: John Silver
Shows development and complexity rarely seen in Disney villains outside of Judge Frollo. He's also one of only two main Disney villains to reform, rather then 'getting whats coming to him'.
Worst character: B.E.N.
Disney had this idea during the late and post renaissance eras that a good idea for a character is to get some celebrity, then have his/her character get in everyone's face and shout as loud as possible. Needless to say, it didn't work this time either.
-- SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.
I've never been a huge fan of Treasure Planet. It definitely has some positives, but the negatives (like most of the characters) just drag it down too far. Another excellent writeup, Doc.
I loves me some Pooh too. But I dunno. The new one didn't thrill me much. It certainly wasn't bad or anything. But it left a bad taste in my mouth in some ways.
Zooey Deschanel singing the Pooh songs didn't work for me. Sounded like bad lounge singing.
There was no Gopher and they made Owl a blithering idiot.
And Christopher Robin had the most obnoxious British kid doing his voice possible.
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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado
Owl was smart in the original movie, just forgetful. In this one, they made it so he couldn't even read a note properly. And I like Craig Ferguson and all, but Owl he is not. John Cleese should have been Owl and Ferguson should have been the narrator.
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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado
I've never been a huge fan of Treasure Planet. It definitely has some positives, but the negatives (like most of the characters) just drag it down too far. Another excellent writeup, Doc.
If it was in the canon it would be.
I'm going to guess Fantasia, because if it's Down Under, I mgiht be done with this topic.
I've never been a huge fan of Treasure Planet. It definitely has some positives, but the negatives (like most of the characters) just drag it down too far. Another excellent writeup, Doc.
If it was in the canon it would be.
Oh, I know it's not. :)
I just won't let anything stand in the way of the "Aladdin" streak. All the way to #1. Right, Doc? AM I RIGHT?
I've never been a huge fan of Treasure Planet. It definitely has some positives, but the negatives (like most of the characters) just drag it down too far. Another excellent writeup, Doc.
If it was in the canon it would be.
Oh, I know it's not. :)
I just won't let anything stand in the way of the "Aladdin" streak. All the way to #1. Right, Doc? AM I RIGHT?
What are you going to do when it is "This Title is a girls name" Aladdin, Jafar, Prince....