Board 8 > Epyon's Pathfinder Topic The Third!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Maybe I should go pure bard? Between the oracle and myself, we'd have control and support covered.

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Our party's charisma would be insane and we'd be in control not just of combat itself but any social situation

vouch +1

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Geologists will date anything.

Of course, we'd be entirely composed of idiots completely incapable of solving any situation requiring basic thought processes, but hey, who cares about that, EPIC CHARISMA!

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Made a back-up wizard. I'll decide between him and the bard when we start, I guess.

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Can I possibly see both, please? Curious.

... incidentally, if you don't mind a suggestion, I'll just point out one thing: there's a feat that lets you add int to bow damage (Focused shot), which can be useful as an int class if you want to use a bow for backup. You have to still use Dex for attack, but at least you're not stuck using str for damage. Zen Archer is better, but that requires several levels as a MONK. Archetype, but still.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=406550
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=406435

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... ew shortbow. If you can't decide on a trait you want, you could just go with Rich parents. It adds 900 GP to your starting cash. Simple enough.

Also, you may wish to consider looking into spellslinger for the wizard. Oooh, crafting.

Though School of the Gun would ditch that delightful crafting...

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

The shortbow was only meant to last one level; at level 2, she'd take divine hunter and gain a longbow and precise shot. But that might not happen anyway, since the wizard may be better for our group.

My problem is that the oracle already has the controller spot locked down but not the support spot, but my bard wouldn't be able to handle int-based skills or crafting like the wizard. Wizards are also crap for damage, so... I don't know.

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The oracle's actually a jack. It's doing both controller AND Support. Though neither to an amazing extent. The real "support" is probably going to come from the Armiger anyway; defense is his gig. Spellslinger can probably fix the damage problems with the wizard, since it's turning spells into enhancement bonuses. Multiclassing into artificer could also produce interesting results.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

So you suggest I go spellslinger and just do damage? I suppose that's an option, but then it's like... I only do functional damage as many times as I have spells per day, and once you reach level 6+, allies' full attacks are still better than mine. I don't know, I'm really fine with either option here.

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I'd also suggest Eldritch Godling, but Godlings are lol. Anyway, I think you misunderstood spellslinger. Mage bullets effects the gun, not the bullet (Mage Bullet sounds better than Mage Barrel, I guess?), and lasts a number of minutes equal to the spell level ditched. So even a first level spell could last an entire battle if things end fast enough. Even then, you can have a gun (or two), which is still dealing damage at range against touch.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

I was talking about Arcane Gun, actually. It lets me cast some offensive spells through it, but since we're level 1, I have no enhancement bonus to gain from it without giving up one of my already extremely limited spells (I would have a grand total of three level 1 spells if I was an Arcane Gun), and its penalties for rolling 1s or enemies rolling 20s are pretty painful (given that's a 10% chance for any given spell).

I just don't know if it's actually worth it.

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You could just act as a normal wizard at level one, with guns as backup. Guns by themselves are pretty amazing, after all. And those penalties you mentioned actually apply to guns normally. Just use that free gunsmithing to fix them if it actually happens. And stop focusing so much on level 1. There's more to the gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

I suppose. This would more-or-less lock me into offensive direct damage attacks, which I suppose is okay.

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So when is the game tonight?

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Bump

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Badump

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I have come to an executive (despite not being executive) decision! Meaningless bumps are hereby forbidden! Every time you desire to post, you must say something MEANINGFUL!

... that said, Cheesecake best cake.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Pumpkin Pie is the best pie

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Ew

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Geologists will date anything.

DIE, MONSTER WHO SAYS EW! YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD! Pumpkin pie is amazing!

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Remade my wizard.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=407825

I couldn't find a list of spells of the fire school, but I put it as my opposed school anyway. I also have no idea what to take for my second feat; I put Spell Penetration as a placeholder. I'm also unsure of the 20 intelligence at level 1, but eh.

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... what is it with you and ridiculous spell schools? Anyway, shouldn't you be pulling points out of Charisma before you pull them out of Strength?

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

SupremeZero posted...

... what is it with you and ridiculous spell schools? Anyway, shouldn't you be pulling points out of Charisma before you pull them out of Strength?

Well what's a better spell school?

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Well, I'd play a wizard veeery differently.

Anyway, dump wis and cha, you need more dex and con.

You don't need spell penetration at level 1. drop the feat and pick up toughness.

A lot of the knowledge skills you picked up don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Of course, you can always dip one point into the knowledges and get a big bonus. You might be doing that, it's hard to tell at level 1. Arcana is good to max, and planes is good to max if you're summoning or using inter-planar travel. If you plan on flying, you'll want points in fly. If you plan on summoning, you should put points in linguistics so that you can give your summons verbal commands (check each creatures language). Perception is always good to have, it's the most used skill by far. Of course, all of those things can depend on the GM.

You probably don't want my advice on spells, but prestidigitation is a fantastically useful level 0 spell.
Mage armor lasts a lot longer than shield.
Silent Image is as useful as you are.
Summon Monster doesn't get really good until Summon Monster III. The duration is very small at lower levels, and the summons aren't that great anyway. After that, it's probably the best line of spells you can get.

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"What if you just eat vegetarians?"-neonreaper
"^ You are what you eat. ^_~"-Koiji

I always dump wisdom >_>

Anyway, I chose shield because it's on the Void spell list and mage armor isn't. If there's a better school for me to take for a generalist/controller wizard, please, tell me. Actually, now that I think about it, we only have one devoted damager right now, huh? Would it be better if I went evocation and did damage?

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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/transmutation/enhancement
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/evocation/admixture
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/conjuration/teleportation
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/necromancy/life

Enhancement is an amazing buffer, admixture can give amazing flexibility as well as disturbingly good defense if the party syncs up their elemental resistances, teleportation is just that, and life let's you heal people any time you cast a buff on them.

... also, what insanity possessed you to use a bonded item instead of a familiar? Bonded items give you one extra spell per day. Amazing. They also make it so that if it breaks or is lost somehow, you have to pass a concentration check every time you want to cast a spell. A familiar, meanwhile, can A. have abilities and skills of it's own, as they usually do, B. give you bonuses to basically anything you can think of (there's actually even one that gives an AC bonus), and C. Can actually move separately.

... I imagine the awesomeness of familiars would be more apparent if you'd been there when Godford was getting leveled up yesterday.

... incidentally, damaging wizards generally aren't a good idea, but with Admixture they can be kinda cool. Though we're a four person party. We only NEED one damage dealer. Particularly when that damage dealer is a barbarian with 22 strength at level 1.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Are blaster sorcerers a better idea?

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Not really. Blaster isn't really the best use of what casters can do. By the way, why not go Elf? They're basically built for Wizards, and they also give you longbows (and +2 dex), which are pretty much better than Crossbows by default.

... besides, I'M getting dragon breath (the best way to make a blaster sorcerer is Draconic bloodline, really). No doubling up~! It'd be weird.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

I know it's not the most effective use of resources, but we could use more damage. I could be half control/half damage and still be good.

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familiar's are a better choice than a bonded item because they are never worse than nothing. If your familiar dies, you can still do everything you want to as a wizard. Meanwhile, how often have you been imprisoned and lost all your gear? Or fallen into an ooze?

My favorite school to specialize is conjuration. The teleportation sub school is amazing. The best controller spells are conjuration. Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm, the pit spells, walls of stone and iron.

Not to mention the summon monster line of spells. If you plan on summoning a lot, I advise augment summoning as a feat.

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"What if you just eat vegetarians?"-neonreaper
"^ You are what you eat. ^_~"-Koiji

If you cast fireball, you can deal up to 10d6 damage, which means up to 60. Cut that in half for everything that makes the reflex save (likely) and remember to account for spell resistance and all the creatures that have resistance to the element type.

If you spent that same turn casting haste, how much damage would you deal? You would have to add all the damage together for every extra attack from all your party members, animal companions, and summons over the course of the battle. Not to mention the increased AC and better positioning.

Same turn, one was spent way better.

If you really want to throw 1337 dps dice, other classes do it much better than Wizard. Look into Ranger, Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarians, Monks. Fighting is all they're good for.

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"What if you just eat vegetarians?"-neonreaper
"^ You are what you eat. ^_~"-Koiji

Gwindor posted...

If you cast fireball, you can deal up to 10d6 damage, which means up to 60. Cut that in half for everything that makes the reflex save (likely) and remember to account for spell resistance and all the creatures that have resistance to the element type.

If you spent that same turn casting haste, how much damage would you deal? You would have to add all the damage together for every extra attack from all your party members, animal companions, and summons over the course of the battle. Not to mention the increased AC and better positioning.

Same turn, one was spent way better.

If you really want to throw 1337 dps dice, other classes do it much better than Wizard. Look into Ranger, Sorcerer, Fighter, Barbarians, Monks. Fighting is all they're good for.

The problem with buffing spells, however, is that we only have two people who use regular attacks, and only one of them is actually designed for damage. Though you are swaying me back toward my bard/paladin, actually.

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Alright, but haste isn't coming until level 7 or something, anyway, right? It's a good point, and I'll take into consideration.


Unrelated:


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... okay, 1, What do you think the other guys doing with his actions? All of his defense abilities are passive or immediate.

2. Haste doesn't only change attacks. It also adds AC, Reflex, and movement. Thinks mister defender likes.

3. 3rd person's still using attacks, just leading with spells.

4. Haste isn't the only buff spell in the game! Incidentally, Bard doesn't actually get a lot of the good ones. No Enlarge Person, for example. Also, since you want to be an Archer, no Gravity Bow.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Actually, all in all, Bards are terrible buffers, spellwise. All their buffs are from performances.

Summoners are probably the best buffers. They tend to get all the buffs Sorc/Wiz get, and sometimes get them earlier. Haste's a level 2 spell for them, for example.

Dammit, staring at the spell list is making me want to swap out Kikuya's build for a sorc or Summoner. Need to stop that.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

SupremeZero posted...

Actually, all in all, Bards are terrible buffers, spellwise. All their buffs are from performances.

Summoners are probably the best buffers. They tend to get all the buffs Sorc/Wiz get, and sometimes get them earlier. Haste's a level 2 spell for them, for example.

Dammit, staring at the spell list is making me want to swap out Kikuya's build for a sorc or Summoner. Need to stop that.

Well, okay, but they still get spells and their performances, so it all evens out, right?

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Not really. The only upside performances have is that they basically come as a mass buff. The buffs Sorc/Wiz/Summ get are more versatile, generally more powerful, and last longer.

Let's take the basic attribute buff line that Sorc/Wiz/Summ get compared to inspire courage. Inspire courage adds a bonus to saving throws against charm and fear. Okay. It also grants +1 to attack and weapon damage. Pretty cool. Except that it does jack for casters, and doesn't help defense. Now take the basic attribute buff line. These add +4 to a stat. Bull's Strength will add +4 strength. That's +2 attack and weapon damage. So it's better than Inspire already. But you can also cast the other buff spells. You can use Cat's Grace, improving AC, Ranged Attack, and Reflex by 2 each, Bear's Endurance, adding 2 temp HP and fortitude, or the 3 mental versions, improving the caster abilities. And Will, for Owl's Wisdom.

Now, I will grant that Inspire improves as the bard gains levels, but you're already saying that if you're bard, you're multiclassing, so you probably won't get the full bonuses out of it. So the Wizard's buffs will turn out better. Add on the buffs that Bard doesn't get in the first place, like Enlarge person, which works out to not only +2 strength, but an improvement to the damage on the weapon, since that also gets enlarged, and others, and the Wizard/sorc/summ just works out to being a better buffer. Plus, Inspire Courage is really the only buff performance Bard get's that's worth a damn, except MAYBE inspire greatness for that HP buff.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

... oh, hey. There's a way to be a sorcerer, while still being an int monkey.


hhttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded
ttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sage

You could also probably combine it with Cross-blooded (Take two bloodlines and pick and choose bits from both as you level up) to get an actually decent bloodline (Arcane's pretty blargh, if you don't get Arcane Bond.).

... incidentally, there's also a way to do it with Wis instead, but that's a bit sillier.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

Bump

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Dammit, now I've added a druid of all things as a potential characteer.

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Druids tend to be cool. Why, though?

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

SupremeZero posted...

Druids tend to be cool. Why, though?

I've never played one before. Although, looking at their spells, I'm not sure. They don't impress me like wizards and clerics do.

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Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildshape. That's the point of a druid. Walking Casting Tank.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

SupremeZero posted...

Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiildshape. That's the point of a druid. Walking Casting Tank.

Yeah, at... level 4.

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The horror.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

hell, if you want to be a bow user, look into the arcane archer prestige class.

You'll probably want to multiclass ranger/wizard, though you can also do fighter/wizard. Although sorcerer can be an attractive option for the arcane caster class, because they get the free spells, and because of the charisma based dc on Arrow of Death.

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"What if you just eat vegetarians?"-neonreaper
"^ You are what you eat. ^_~"-Koiji

Bump

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Badump

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So, I mentioned that Cleric. I got torn between Cleric, who heals every 5 seconds which is actually way beyond what we need, or a Paladin, who still heals rather well. I have both made up, at level 5 (Since I'm assuming we'll level up).

Cleric is a straight cleric with Heroism (A subdomain of Glory) and Archon (Subdomain of Good). What this means is that it has the stupidly broken touch of good ability, and will get the ability to give off at level 8 auras that add 2 to attack and such for allies, and another that will drop 2 to attack and such for enemies. This is obviously dangerous. It's also Aasimar. So it's getting Celestial Bloodline so it can get wings later. Because what's the point of an Aasimar without wings.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=408886

The Paladin is a Chevalier and Hospitaler. Chevalier makes mounts more awesome (including removing ACP on ride checks and free mounted feats), as well as eventually letting the mount fly for some reason. Hospitaler makes healing more awesome by making Paladin's Channel Energy NOT reliant on Lay on Hands (though the power is reduced), and providing an auto-healing aura at level 11. Sadly, Chevalier ditches the Paladin spell list, but their spell list is eh anyway. It basically heals and does awesome charging damage with a lance (seriously, on a crit it deals 9x damage.). It's a suli, since they're the only race I'm aware of with a stat distribution that works for paladins properly. It still heals fine, since Lay on Hands is actually pretty awesome.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=408975

... also, the most important question of the day: The paladin has a mount (Obviously). It shall be named either TROMBE! (INTERRUPT or Astranagant. Help me decide which.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=408996

Yes, horses can wear armor if they're combat trained. Yes, the two characters are basically the same outside of gameplay (And race and alignment, but I personally don't consider Neutral Good and Lawful Good that different), including the same names and appearances. Though the Paladin would be a Suli who actually knows what that means.

... and yes, the Mount is smarter than the Paladin. Deal with it.

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There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.