Board 8 > Finished watching the last two episodes of Star Trek: TNG

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Tohsaka_Rin
04/27/12 6:29:00 PM
#1:


Great finale or greatest finale

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Big Bob
04/27/12 6:33:00 PM
#2:


Greatest finale. It had a little extra "oomph" considering it concluded the series instead of just a season.

Other good series finales include Avatar and Arrested Development. Both of which are available on Netflix.

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Big Bob
04/27/12 6:36:00 PM
#3:


Ask me anything.

Data > Picard > Geordi > Riker > Worf > Beverly > Wesley > Troi

Best episode: Tapestry

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Kaxon
04/27/12 10:48:00 PM
#4:


All Good Things is such a great finale. And the show overall is still my favorite show ever.

I can't really pick a single best episode but here's my top tier:

The Inner Light
Chain of Command
All Good Things
The Best of Both Worlds
Yesterday's Enterprise

There are too many great episodes to name, though. Well, I could probably name most of them but it would take a while. :)

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Kaxon
04/27/12 10:56:00 PM
#5:


Fine, here are my second tier of episodes (in no particular order):
Redemption
Gambit
The Lower Decks (introduced characters that I cared more about in one hour than the casts of entire Star Trek shows)
Thine Own Self
Frame of Mind (awesomely creepy and surreal)
Cause and Effect
The Neutral Zone (the first episode that really showed what the series had the capability of becoming)
Rascals (was bad in some ways, but had some of the best scenes of the entire series - the feremantle drive scene and the "number 1 dad" scene)
Q Who
Tapestry
The Measure of a Man
The Drumhead
Data's Day
The Defector

Guess that's all I'm remembering at the moment among the ones I really liked.

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Ace_Killjoy
04/27/12 11:01:00 PM
#6:


Picard > Worf > Geordi > Data > Riker > Beverly > Wesley > Troi

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Jeff Zero
04/27/12 11:07:00 PM
#7:


DS9's finale is even better from my rather subjective viewpoint. I think TNG's probably trumps it objectively, since there's a lot less controversial material in it. It just so happens all the big angst-causing things in DS9's didn't bother me so I was left with a rather amazing two hours. (Which was actually more like eleven hours since DS9 got super-serialized as it went on, culminating in "The Final Chapter".)

Picard > Data > Worf > Geordi > Riker > Crusher > Troi > Wesley > Pulaski > Yar. Only three that really stand out for me are the first three and Worf only from Season Three onward. (He started getting fleshed out a lot more as the show went on. In fact, really everyone did with obvious exceptions like Pulaski and Yar.)

"Chain of Command, Part II" is probably my favorite episode of TNG but that has a lot to do with the fact that it showcases the Cardassians in a very strong manner. The Cardassian/Bajoran conflict is at the heart of early DS9 and continues to color it as it goes on.

...Yes, I'm really big on DS9.

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Jeff Zero
04/27/12 11:12:00 PM
#8:


From: Kaxon | #005
Fine, here are my second tier of episodes (in no particular order):
Redemption
Gambit
The Lower Decks (introduced characters that I cared more about in one hour than the casts of entire Star Trek shows)
Thine Own Self
Frame of Mind (awesomely creepy and surreal)
Cause and Effect
The Neutral Zone (the first episode that really showed what the series had the capability of becoming)
Rascals (was bad in some ways, but had some of the best scenes of the entire series - the feremantle drive scene and the "number 1 dad" scene)
Q Who
Tapestry
The Measure of a Man
The Drumhead
Data's Day
The Defector

Guess that's all I'm remembering at the moment among the ones I really liked.


Oh wow, you have really good taste. I think the only episode I'd disagree with you on is "Rascals", but that's a historically love-or-hate hour of TNG if ever there were one, so it isn't surprising.

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AfroSquirrel
04/27/12 11:13:00 PM
#9:


From: Kaxon | #005
Cause and Effect


This is my 'pet' episode. There's quite a few that are better than it, but it's just such a fun episode!

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IngmarBirdman
04/27/12 11:13:00 PM
#10:


SUB ROSA laughs at your tier lists; such primitive constructs cannot hope to encapsulate its greatness.

But yeah, Tapestry was a stellar episode, albeit one among many. I think the apex for me was The Defector, although A Matter of Honor is way up there. I've watched it several times and truly every scene has something interesting to say about human behavior. And the delivery is so skillful, the subtext stays subtext because they don't stoop to using the dialogue to tell everyone "here's the point of this episode and also why i made this episode!"

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Jeff Zero
04/27/12 11:16:00 PM
#11:


SUB ROSA

/falls over dead

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Kaxon
04/27/12 11:16:00 PM
#12:


Thanks. Like I said, Rascals is kinda bad, but it also has some really really great scenes. It's hit or miss.

I disliked the DS9 finale actually. I've only seen it once though, never watched it again after it first aired. The main thing I remember is that it included a montage of previous episode clips for each one of the the main characters, which I thought was pretty bad.

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Emporer_Kazbar
04/27/12 11:16:00 PM
#13:


From: Big Bob | #001
> Picard


I'm sorry, but there's just no agreeing with this.

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Jeff Zero
04/27/12 11:18:00 PM
#14:


From: Kaxon | #012
Thanks. Like I said, Rascals is kinda bad, but it also has some really really great scenes. It's hit or miss.

I disliked the DS9 finale actually. I've only seen it once though, never watched it again after it first aired. The main thing I remember is that it included a montage of previous episode clips for each one of the the main characters, which I thought was pretty bad.


That's actually one of very few montages I've enjoyed. But it's a matter of how attached one gets to the cast, I think. Or at least I think that certainly factors in.

DS9 was the television series for me as a kid. My grandmother watched it and TNG in their first runs. I was born a few weeks before TNG premiered so for most of that show I was just star-struck with all the 'cutting-edge special effects' and the coolness of Data and stuff but I didn't really get it, you know? DS9... as the seasons went on and the show generally got better, I was maturing enough to understand the gist of it all.

And boy did I get attached to that cast. I was eleven when that series ended and sobbing up the yin yang, no joke. That montage just did it for me.

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IngmarBirdman
04/27/12 11:19:00 PM
#15:


SUB ROSA

/falls over dead


Star Trek + Romance Novel ... destined to be, er, special!

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Jeff Zero
04/27/12 11:21:00 PM
#16:


By the way, in case anyone here isn't aware, Paramount's been pouring truckloads of cash into TNG to restore it for a proper Blu Ray release. A teaser disc featuring four hours of the series beautifully remastered hit the shelves a couple of months ago. The first season is arriving in July of this year, I believe it was.

I'm not big on the first couple of years of TNG (although "A Matter of Honor" and "The Measure of a Man" are HUGE exceptions) but I'll definitely pick the sets up from the third year onward.

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AfroSquirrel
04/27/12 11:25:00 PM
#17:


Anbo-jitsu, the ultimate form of martial art.

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Kaxon
04/27/12 11:41:00 PM
#18:


From: IngmarBirdman | #010
SUB ROSA laughs at your tier lists; such primitive constructs cannot hope to encapsulate its greatness.


Sub Rosa is so incredibly bad. It seems like it should have been made in the first season instead of the seventh.

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Anagram
04/27/12 11:44:00 PM
#19:


The seventh season had a few really awful episodes, it was when they finally just began to run out of ideas. It was good the show ended when it did.

... In fact, it should have stayed ended. Make First Contact, and none of the other TNG movies, and the show is nearly perfect (damn you Pulawski).

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IngmarBirdman
04/27/12 11:48:00 PM
#20:


Yeah Sub Rosa is down there with the one where Riker is incapacitated and most of the episode is just footage of his from previous episodes.

For me the first and seventh seasons were pretty opposite - first was really hit or miss, seventh was just meh, only a few episodes that really strayed from the baseline.

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Kaxon
04/27/12 11:54:00 PM
#21:


From: Anagram | #019
The seventh season had a few really awful episodes, it was when they finally just began to run out of ideas. It was good the show ended when it did.

... In fact, it should have stayed ended. Make First Contact, and none of the other TNG movies, and the show is nearly perfect (damn you Pulawski).


Nemesis was alright. But what they really needed was a movie featuring Q.

From: IngmarBirdman | #020
Yeah Sub Rosa is down there with the one where Riker is incapacitated and most of the episode is just footage of his from previous episodes.


What episode is that? I don't remember that one at all.

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CybrMonkey
04/28/12 12:02:00 AM
#23:


From: Anagram | Posted: 4/28/2012 3:00:10 AM | #022
That's part of the reason his Voyager appearances are so bad, he doesn't have anything to really do (the other reason is that Voyager's writers were godawful).


But he had to have super advanced god sex with Janeway!

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IngmarBirdman
04/28/12 12:06:00 AM
#24:


What episode is that? I don't remember that one at all.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shades_of_Gray_%28episode%29

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Anagram
04/28/12 12:10:00 AM
#25:


CybrMonkey posted...
From: Anagram | Posted: 4/28/2012 3:00:10 AM | #022
That's part of the reason his Voyager appearances are so bad, he doesn't have anything to really do (the other reason is that Voyager's writers were godawful).
But he had to have super advanced god sex with Janeway!


I can't tell you all of the things wrong with that so I won't even try.

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AfroSquirrel
04/28/12 12:19:00 AM
#26:


TNG Q > MLP Q > DS9 Q > Voyager Q

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CoolCly
04/28/12 12:21:00 AM
#27:


From: AfroSquirrel | #026
TNG Q > MLP Q > DS9 Q > Voyager Q




Fact.

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Jeff Zero
04/28/12 12:25:00 AM
#28:


Pretty much undeniable, and his DS9 appearance wasn't even good.

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Big Bob
04/28/12 9:05:00 AM
#29:


Ow wow, this topic took off hours after I made it. I've only seen a few episodes of Deep Space Nine, hopefully it's good as well (I was advised to skip the first season, just like TNG). I'll admit that John de Lancie playing Discord was one of the reasons I started watching the show, as well as the upcoming Doctor Who/TNG crossover comic. Sadly, First Contact isn't on Netflix, so I'll have to stay in the dark a bit longer for that one.

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IngmarBirdman
04/28/12 9:59:00 AM
#30:


(I was advised to skip the first season, just like TNG)

That would mean you'd skip Duet so, uh, no...

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StifledSilence
04/28/12 10:00:00 AM
#31:


Big Bob posted...
Ask me anything.

Data > Picard > Geordi > Riker > Worf > Beverly > Wesley > Troi

Best episode: Tapestry



Pretty flawless ranking there.

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OmarsComin
04/28/12 10:14:00 AM
#32:


I think the best shows of DS9 are on par with the best shows of TNG. they're both only okay on the less good episodes but the top level episodes are amazing.

I like TOS the best, while we're talking Trek. way more hokey than the rest of the series of course but it's also the most interesting, they really explored ideas with that show, which sometimes got lost behind the sci fi element later in the series.

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Jeff Zero
04/28/12 10:17:00 AM
#33:


From: IngmarBirdman | #030
(I was advised to skip the first season, just like TNG)

That would mean you'd skip Duet so, uh, no...


Indeed, not to much DS9 is more serialized in general so it's not all that good an idea even discounting that terrific episode.

DS9's first season is definitely its weakest; the writing is somewhat dodgy, the plotlines are often rather uninspired and the actors take a while to fully 'get' their characters. But it's certainly better than TNG's first season, and it's rather required viewing to fully appreciate the latter seasons. I definitely wouldn't skip it!

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OmarsComin
04/28/12 10:17:00 AM
#34:


oh character rankings

Picard > Worf > Data > who cares, for the most part. The good episodes are usually centered on one of those three characters.

TNG and DS9 have some excellent side characters as well. Q and Dukat are both amazing whenever they're on their respective shows.

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Jeff Zero
04/28/12 10:21:00 AM
#35:


DS9's cast is one of the major reasons I vastly prefer it. (I like all four other shows to varying extents, mind you, with TOS and TNG ahead of VOY and ENT unsurprisingly.)

It has a solid, well-developed main cast and its ever-expanding side cast really rocks. Garak, Dukat, Winn, Damar, Weyoun, Rom, Nog, Yates, Gowron (again), Martok... the list goes on and they're mostly terrific.

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Tohsaka_Rin
04/28/12 11:21:00 AM
#36:


Garak was always my favorite DS9 character. Liked him more than any of the main characters.

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Jeff Zero
04/28/12 11:22:00 AM
#37:


I know a lot of folks who feel similarly, actually. He regularly aces polls on TrekBBS.

It's funny how he just pops up in the first regular episode and then he doesn't show up again for over a year's worth of them. The producers simply did not expect people to love him like they did.

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Kaxon
04/28/12 11:54:00 AM
#38:


Well, I halfway agree with you. TNG had a better main cast. But DS9 had a really awesome secondary cast, that might be the single best thing about the show. One of the flaws of TNG was that it was really prone to having a guest star of the week who was never seen again. Some of them could have made interesting minor characters if they'd brought them back.

I have a hard time even thinking of recurring characters on TNG who were relevant to the plot. There was Q, Ensign Ro, Lwaxana, O'Brien, Guinan, Barclay... okay, I guess there were a few, but for the most part they weren't that great or that memorable (or that important to the overall plot). On the other hand, try to imagine DS9 without someone like Dukat or Garak, it wouldn't even be the same show.

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Kaxon
04/28/12 11:56:00 AM
#39:


Oh right, and Vash. Why did she become a recurring character?

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Anagram
04/28/12 12:00:00 PM
#22:


Kaxon posted...
From: Anagram | #019
The seventh season had a few really awful episodes, it was when they finally just began to run out of ideas. It was good the show ended when it did.

... In fact, it should have stayed ended. Make First Contact, and none of the other TNG movies, and the show is nearly perfect (damn you Pulawski).
Nemesis was alright. But what they really needed was a movie featuring Q.


Nemesis was awful. It had one good scene, a few bearable scenes, and then everything else was awful. And the thing about Q is... his storyline was finished. There was nothing more to do with him after All Good Things. The arc that was Q was done. That's part of the reason his Voyager appearances are so bad, he doesn't have anything to really do (the other reason is that Voyager's writers were godawful).

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OmarsComin
04/28/12 6:17:00 PM
#40:


LOL Vash

Ro is legit thugh, top 3 TNG side character. Q is definitely better, Gowron probably is too even in his TNG form.

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