Board 8 > is that Ar Tonelico series any good?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I sure like me some sprites

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that bad, huh?

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Is that the item store management RPG game?

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http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png
SuperNiceDog - 1, pjbasis - 0

I don't know much about it aside from it featuring cool sprites, turn-based RPG battles and a big emphasis on item crafting (like, bigger than any other JRPG series) but I was just looking at some pics of one of them and man...



...that's kinda cool. Imagine of a Pokemon generation had an 'island' like this.

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"Later..." <Toonami> <4/1/2012> <Never Forget> ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

I tried the first one and didn't care for it, but I didn't really get awful far either. I remember the main character being an absolute moron, music was good though.

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Formally Ikon.
Indie Gaming Board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/293-indie-gaming

From: pjbasis | #003
Is that the item store management RPG game?

Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale

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(10:17:09 PM) Ed Bellis: i think pac-man just keeps repeating, for instance
(10:17:26 PM) ertyu: ya well tell that to billy michtlle

They're pretty good imo.

EDIT: Also pjbasis you're thinking of Atelier.

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pjbasis posted...
Is that the item store management RPG game?

No, you're thinking of Recettear. This is the one with the singing chicks, outfits, and innuendo.

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assert(!hotterThan(foo, "Hot Nymphomaniacal Lesbian Mind-Controlling Dominatrix Fairy Doctors with glasses"))

They're very good, particularly AT2 and 3, but you have to be aware that there's loads of innuendo. Normally this wouldn't bear mention, but this is a series where 'subtext' is often deemed too obvious and goes straight into 'text', if that makes any sense. It's not something that you wanna be caught playing randomly, even though its themes are basically the opposite of what it shows.

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Twostuck, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62168402

From: Phase | #008
No, you're thinking of Recettear. This is the one with the singing chicks, outfits, and innuendo.

He's not thinking of Recettear <.<

That's not even on PS2/PS3.

And yes there's a LOT of innuendo in Ar Tonelico.

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ill say i thought the gameplay aspects of the game were decent too. Its not a series id play in front of other people due to cheesiness and it the story, but whatever.

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Pride. Passion. Excellence. Metal_DK
Currently playing: Sengoku Rance, Starcraft II

I actually like the story, but yeah you definitely don't want to be playing in front of other people.

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It's kind of like the Atelier Iris series, though without as much focus on item creation (though that is still present to a lesser degree).

Instead it has sort of a VN component to it and focuses heavily on developing the main heroines with some fanservice/innuendo tossed in. And music, written in a fictional language.

The heroines in each game are artificial humans called reyvatails who channel magical energy through song in battle. The main character defends them in battle as they are defenseless when charging. Furthermore to learn new song magic the main character must strengthen his relationship with the reyvatails through chat scenes and then "dive" into their cosmosphere which represents their mental state in vn like scenes. Naturally these get a bit weird/suggestive which is pretty well known/infamous by this point.

The battle system in the first is pretty much the same as the Iris games, but with the addition of song magic charging between turns. Second is semi-action RPG kind of like Valkyrie Profile with two reyvatails in battle and two vanguards assigned to the face buttons to attack on your turns and timed defenses during enemy turns. Third is a flat out action RPG, but it's bare bones and awful. In all three, song magic is ridiculously overpowered though it's most noticeable in the third since it's pretty much the only way to damage enemies because the vanguards are such worthless meatshields.

The games are a trilogy and are meant to be played in order to complete the overarching plot and themes. Although the first game the writers pretty much wrote themselves into a corner in phase 2 and the plot suffers for it since it requires some illogical/insensitive actions on the main character's part to get it moving again and I hate him for it, and the second has an abysmally bad translation that comes close to complete gibberish at times which doesn't do any favors since it's the most serious and story driven one. (not to mention the infamous Raki glitch caused by some battle text strings)

Overall they're pretty similar to other Gust games in terms of strengths and flaws; how much you enjoy them largely depends on how much you like the heroines since the games focus more on them than the plot or other characters and how much you enjoy/tolerate the vn/fanservice side of the game.

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The only certain death in the universe is Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons.
Not changing this line until I beat Seven Heroes (2/24/07)

Yes. Great series.

Another thing to mention is the setting. There's a lot of detail in the world and the lore and the science of song magic, although not all of it is necessarily presented in the games. The hymmnos songs are kind of a big deal, too. There are a lot very nice pieces that add a lot to the games, made all the more impressive by being written (mostly) in a constructed language.

I guess it's a greater-than-sum-of-its-parts sort of thing. There's not one defining aspect you point to and say "this is why it's good." It does a lot of things well, a few things very well, is lacking in some departments, and gives varying mileage in others, but the sum product is excellent imho.

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Eh, I'll give my two cents, clang! I don't have a PS3, though, so I can't comment on the 3rd installment, and I feel no need to rehash someone else's opinion of it as my own, clang!


For AT1, it's got... issues, clang! Like, serious ones, clang!

-The unacceptably bad, which I'm just putting out to get it outta the way, clang-
Melody of Elemia pretty much marks the start of a point when the Gust devs got lazy as hell, clang! I can understand shrinking budgets or changing deadlines causing some of this, but only by a bit, clang!
First of all, you can't get away with 2d graphics of this game's caliber, not on the PS2, clang! This is coming from someone who had no issue with Eternal Mana & Azoth of Destiny's graphics, clang! In fact, I praised them for their visuals, clang! But somehow, they seemed to forget if you want to use this style, you gotta do it well, clang! Sprite resolutions are a joke, and animation frames are even worse, clang! Somehow, they took pre-existing monsters from earlier games, and made them clunkier, I just don't know how they pulled this off, clang! I could go on & on and cite tons of examples, but just take my word for it, clang!
Second, the mapping, oh god, the mapping, clang! There's only one thing I could take away from this: it helped me realize how well-done Azoth of Destiny's mapping was, clang! You may not notice immediately, but once you start getting into the tower climbing portion towards the end of phase 1, the laziness & over-recycled...ness just gets all up in your face and you die a little on the inside when you pass the same fossilized dinosaur head for the 8th time, clang! And it just keeps getting worse, clang! Fortunately, this game offers a tool to help you know where you are and where you've been, because there's no way you'd be able to tell, otherwise, clang!
Third, the story just ****ing falls apart in phase 3, clang! I thought it held together quite well until then, but suddenly you're farting around when the world is most in danger, and the game REQUIRES IT OF YOU, clang! The final big revelations being put off until then was a good idea, it's just that the execution was complete & total ass, clang!
Fourth, I swear to god, there is seriously a debuff for a stat that doesn't even exist, clang! Don't think too hard about that, your brain will break, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

Ok, now that I got the inexcusable stuff handled, how about some good stuff, clang?
Music, clang? Good, clang!
General plot, clang? Again, I said it was pretty good for the first two phases, clang! It SORT OF seems like you're farting around in phase 1 when the intro seemed like you had next to no time at all to go on your quest to save the world, but you do get your **** together, and other than that, it was fine, clang!
There's no denying the aspects of the song magic system in battle were different & fun, clang! Once you understand the whole harmocrystal aspect, it's a breeze, clang! Oh, and say what you will of the cosmosphere system, but you can't deny that it's entertaining, and a break from the usual way you learn magic in RPGs, clang!
The customization of song magic was just plain nice, clang! Even more so since pretty much nothing is immune to debuffs, clang!
On a related note, the grathnode equipment system is actually pretty sweet, even more than the actual equipment you attach it to, clang! Think of it like the materia in ff7, only without magic involved, and way more impressive stat augmentation, clang!
Finally, speaking of grathnode, the recrystallization system, clang! The crafting system in this game is pretty weak (I'll get to that later), but actually caring about the quality of items you make pays off big toward the end, clang! For example, making s-quality versions of the best chainsaw in the game (yes, someone wields a chainsaw) and recrystallizing them gets you the Mastery grathnode crystal, which triples, yes, TRIPLES the stats of equipment you put it on, clang! There's other crazy effects you can only get this way, and they're all gratifying, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

What about stuff I personally consider bad, but won't go so far as to say it's unacceptable, clang?
1. Your frontline characters' skill pools seriously consist of 3 offensive skills and one passive, that's seriously it, clang!
2. Jack is horribly horribly overpowered compared to the rest of your frontliners, clang! Between his overpowered basic attack, his additionally non-physical fire damage that's independent from typical tacked-on elemental damage, his weapons having said tacked-on elemental damage ANYWAY, all his skills attacking the entire front line... I don't know where I'm going with this, clang! Jack makes you wonder why anyone else in the party exists, clang!
3. Um... I don't know how to say this, but the Aurica route is... weak... but even worse, it's treated in many ways as the "default" route, and not in a good way, clang! It sort of suffers from Collette syndrome, in which being engineered to be the default choice made writers forget it should be enjoyable, clang! Even worse, several parts of the abominable phase 3 seem to forget that the Misha route was a choice, and you may very well have chosen it, clang! tl;dr: Misha route is better, clang!
4. Shurelia gets all this awesome stuff, yet still sucks, clang! Right off the bat, she has the best costume in the game (stat-wise), a stronger basic spell, and immediate access to the Ar tonelico spell, and it's a beefier version at that, clang! And a guard spell that covers ALL elements, not just one, and a buff spell that is also 3-in-one, clang! Oh, and she has exclusive use of the best armor, and the cosmosphere gives her access to multi-elemental spells as well as the most overpowered (sort of) spell in the game, clang!
So, what's the issue, clang?
Let's see, the basic attack spell takes longer to charge, which makes it inneffective for attaching & using debuffs with it, clang! That strongest spell in the game, clang? One hit, so thanks to the damage cap, it suffers the same effect as Yuffie's All Creation in ff7, clang! And Ar tonelico, clang? By making it take 50% longer to reach the final burst level, Aurica's version or Misha's Tower Connection could've ended the battle a third of the charging time ago, clang! Heck, there's even a boss fight in which you're forced to use Shurelia and you specifically suffer because of this, clang!
5. The levelling in this game is balls, clang! By not running away from battles between point a & b, you're not just making yourself overpowered, you're making yourself so strong, you can beat bosses naked with, clang! And your levelling never seems to slow down, clang! If you stand your ground against everyone you meet, you'll become strong enough in phase 1 to beat the rest of the game, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

6. Ar tonelicard seems like a cool idea, as it lets you get info & recipe cards you may have missed along your way by other means, but the bestiary should NOT have been part of it, clang! Really, if a game has a monster log system, it should not follow this game's example, clang!
7. Yeah, the crafting system is weak, clang! First of all, the ingredients are set in stone, so you can't mess around and get new & exciting things, clang! The only thing that changes are the grathnode crystals you use, which affect the quality of the items, clang! And contrary to the tutorial, quality has zero effect on how effective the item is, clang! The only good that comes of it is late in the game, which I mentioned above, clang! One fun aspect, though, is your ability to change the names of items, depending which girl hangs out with you as you make it, clang! Oh, but the variety of craftable equipment isn't all that great (the poor, poor accessory slot...), and when the game chooses to make certain things available is very questionable, clang!
8. Oh yeah, something weird I noticed about the audio, clang! It sounds so different depending on what you're hooked up to, clang! When switching to another TV, I was like "What the hell, clang?" I've never experienced such a difference in how a game sounds, depending on the speakers used, clang! I then tried with a 3rd TV, just to see what was up, and again, **** sounded different than with the other two, clang! I don't exactly have the most discriminating ears, either, clang! I've got no idea what is up with that, clang!

The big question: Did I LIKE this game, clang? Actually, YES, clang! Which is weird, since I could find so much crap wrong with it, and I have no problem hating something I've played, clang! I liked the game despite all of that, clang! I could get into the little details that won me over, but I already made this huge wall-o-text, and my hands can't take it anymore, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

As for Melody of Metafalica, I could write a whole book of reasons as to why it should've been better, and another book why not, clang! Just bear with me, after writing that stuff above, I'm exhausted, clang!

Crafting System: They brought back the shop synthesis system from Eternal Mana, which seemed like a good idea, since the overwhelming majority of people thought it was the best, clang! Problem was they completely missed the point as to why it was such a hit, clang! In Eternal Mana, it took up more of the game than the actual game, clang! Characters such as Veola & Blaire became as much part of your party as people you actually played as, clang! Here, at most, it just gives you a bit of insight on your own characters, stuff they don't volunteer, and beyond that, it's just "HEY, I GOT A NEW RECIPE CARD, YOU SHOULD MAKE IT SOMETIME," clang! Stick with it enough, and they'll have some big heart-to-heart groove-get-backing moment with whichever party member they were connecting most with, and you'll get an accessory for them and that's it, clang!
As for those items you craft... let's see, a cool aspect is that who you craft with changes the outcome of the item, even though you used the same ingredients, clang! A pretty cool aspect, clang!
But here's the bad, clang!
1. All the best equipment is found, not made, clang! Hell, even when that was the case in Eternal Mana (which it wasn't always), you had the Mana Crystal system to have some say in the matter; you have nothing like that here, clang!
2. A big nono in a crafting-heavy game: One base ingredient item becomes completely unobtainable after a certain point, clang!
3. There are items that serve no purpose at all, clang! No, they can't be used ingredients in other synthesises, either, clang! They're just... there, clang!

Graphics: Gust got out of their phase of sub-par 2D graphics for this game, so that's a plus, clang!

Characters: Ok, what the hell is with Croix, clang? The game flat-out forgets he's the main character about 2 thirds of the way in, clang! Which sucks, because he's actually a pretty cool dude, clang! The only thing you have reminding you he exists is the cosmosphere, clang!
The three ladies, clang? Melody of Elemia gave us Clingy, Possessive, and Needy, clang! Now we have Psychopath, Sociopath, and Genocidal; those are seriously your 3 options, and Genocidal is pretty much the only one people like, clang! Mainly because she's a world-class troll, and doesn't get caught up in the relationship between the first two, which is coincidentally responsible for Croix ceasing to matter, clang!
That dog guy... no... I can't bring myself to talk about all that's wrong there, clang!
Really, the game has no sense of pacing in revealing anything about anyone or how long they should make people important, clang!
Oh, and the Teru, just like in the previous game, is inexplicably more powerful than the other front-liners by a mile and a half... that's pretty much all I have to say there, clang!

Story: It's a ****ing trainwreck, plain & simple, clang! I'm kind of afraid to start ranting on what's wrong with it, since EVERYTHING is what's wrong, clang! In phase one, you're given that big course altering decision, and it doesn't even make sense, clang! What's worse, the things that result from it make even LESS sense, clang! Then Phase 2 gets weird as hell, but at least still resembles as story, clang! But after that, it just throws random crap at you with no coherence at all, clang! A shame, since some of the revelations are actually kind of clever, but it doesn't matter, since the game is catapulting you from one unrelated thing to another, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

Cosmosphere: When it comes to this, the game isn't standalone, clang! The big weird twists that Psychopath, Sociopath, and Genocidal give you with the Cosmosphere make Misha & Aurica's level-6-and-beyond content look NORMAL, clang! I can't imagine this being anyone's first experience, clang!
I will say, the changes to the song magic system were good, clang! For example, you craft individual burst levels of song magic, rather than complete-from-the-start spells, which means more crafting in general, clang! It's also nice that they make you actually choose who you can go past level 5 with, making her your best caster & stuff, clang!
Oh, but sync magic... way to say you'll explain how to use it AND NEVER ACTUALLY DO THAT, clang! You can eventually figure it out yourself, but that's bull****, clang!

Oh yeah, the actual battle system, clang! **** the guard phase, clang! It's impossible without equipping some guard+ hymn codes, and it doesn't help that the meter is tiny as hell, shakes with the screen, and if an attack makes your POV go "offscreen," woops, you can't see the meter, clang! I do NOT need those back-row *****es whining about how much I suck at protecting them, clang!
By the way, the game's superboss has a stupid bug that proves beyond any doubt that the game never got any proper testing, clang!

Right, the hymn codes... where to start, clang! Again, they brought back something from Eternal Mana, the Growloom system, clang! Only now you find girls infected with a mentally crippling disease, beat the **** out of them (I'm not lying), put them through therapy (Luca's stats in this are pointless, why do they even exist, clang?), then you do stupid stuff to make them join a fan club, clang! At some point in there, you can equip their hymn code, which is the equivalent of the grathnode system of the previous game, only now you can only pick one and you can't customize in any way beyond that, clang! And since you're ****ed without some guard boosting, your options among those that have some are pretty darn limited, clang! The other aspect, if you get them in your fan club, is that you can use them all like a supercomputer, and have them pump up the speed at which you charge spells, clang! Collect all 100 of them, and pow, 100x your regular casting speed, clang! In your face... everything, clang!

So, did I LIKE this, clang? Um... no, clang! The biggest saving grace, Miss Genocidal, couldn't hold the rest of the game on her shoulders, sadly, clang! And while I find plenty of faults with the minor aspects, I think they're an overall improvement over the previous game, clang! It's just that... the story is such a mess, nothing can make up for it, clang!


I think that about covers everything you totally didn't ask for, clang! Just felt like ranting ceaselessly, clang!
Now feel free to go "ZOMG IRON GRUNTY!! *Throws master ball*" like you always do every week, clang!

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PIZZA ARMY: Brigadier Prosciutto - Operator of the S5
# of water balloons dodged in 2006 : 0

Holy crap did I just watch this topic get crushed to death under a massive wall of text of the most unreadable quality?

Clang.

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Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9526/prosecutorshominamimoto.png

If it was trivial to nail perfects with every guard you'd never take damage and what would be the point. Pretty sure the shaking/lagging/offscreen attacks are simply intended to be difficult to guard against.

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Little late, but my two cents:

First game: Fantastic story, mediocre gameplay
Second game: Best JRPG you've never played (though sadly the translation is horrible)
Third game: Kinda dropped the ball, but still fun.

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Nonsense. "Testing" is for when you're still guessing--and now, I have no need to guess. -- Agatha, Girl Genius