Board 8 > Pew research poll: young women now more ambitious than men regarding careers.

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2248/gender-jobs-women-men-career-family-educational-attainment-labor-force-participation

Gooooooo men!

well, can't say i'm helping the average for men here. I'm quite unambitious, which has caused me to revise my earlier assumptions that I would end up more financially successful than most people.

Just realized two of my friends are in situations where the wives are the principle breadwinners. One them works too, but the other stays home and does **** all all day. Living the dream.

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do they not realize they are women or something

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I'm not helping the average for men either since I have no ambition at all really. I just don't care.

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TBQH, women have to be more ambitious in order to level the playing field.

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I've got heaps and heaps of ambition, but sometimes it's my undoing. I want to do a million things. I want to be a hundred things. I mean I could go on for the rest of today and well into tomorrow on all that. So when something doesn't pan out it upsets me (even though, yeah, there are so many other things to do) because I just don't wanna stop. And I don't wanna settle either. Only live once, at least I believe so. All that jazz.

My girlfriend's definitely far less ambitious than I am but going to school for four years is still something respectable, I'd say, and a few of the things I want to be she's willing to give a try, like she's done some minor spoken acting roles in some of the scenes I've written for theatre!

Most of my female friends are pretty ambitious though. Good for 'em! Aside from in jest, this ought not to be a battle of the sexes. Let us all be as ambitious or laid-back as we want, male or female. I mean, hell, might as well.

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I don't have ambition.

If what I want to accomplish changes the world, it's just an unintentional byproduct.

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I thought this was pretty obvious to anyone who graduated in the past... 8-10 years I'd guess. I mean I know they have to put in actual research to claim it as fact, but yeah... this isn't the least bit surprising.

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Women have cared about things more than men for a long time now.

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Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember.

american males have been completely emasculated and betafied in the last few generations, more at 11

Liquid illustrating my stance that "beta" now means "whatever negative thing you want it to mean."

beta = letting others take charge = lack of ambition, that's not something he just made up

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My rivalry with SuperNiceDog turned out a bit one-sided.

letting others take charge = lack of ambition

What the **** does this even mean? Who are these "others"? In what way are they "taking charge"?

BETAS

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Yeah beta male literally fits here

From: Mr Lasastryke | #013
letting others take charge = lack of ambition

What the **** does this even mean? Who are these "others"? In what way are they "taking charge"?

women

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Ok everyone this is Bartz so just remember.

If I'm a non-masculine male with plenty of ambition, what does that make me?

honestly I don't think most relationships where the woman is the breadwinner can last long

spells doom for our country's prospects!

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Mr Lasastryke posted...
If I'm a non-masculine male with plenty of ambition, what does that make me?

An individual.

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women

The idea that if men let women "take charge" (which is still a vague and meaningless expression) they lack ambition is completely nonsensical.

honestly I don't think most relationships where the woman is the breadwinner can last long

Where are you getting this from?

From: KingButz | #009
Women have cared about things more than men for a long time now.

^

It's like we all somehow forgot that women have always had better grades than men the last 40ish years

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We really need to rename this board '' b8-a ''

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Mr Lasastryke posted...
honestly I don't think most relationships where the woman is the breadwinner can last long

Where are you getting this from?

some experience, some observation

people (men and women) will act like it's not true but things like:

the woman making more money
the woman being more socially dominant
the man every crying in front of her

are all potentially death knells for a relationship. the attraction just disappears in those situations.

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From: Mr Lasastryke | #019
The idea that if men let women "take charge" (which is still a vague and meaningless expression) they lack ambition is completely nonsensical.

Take charge means that the woman surpasses the man in power/money in the relationship.

Do you not think that letting someone surpass you shows a lack of ambition? If so, you need to look at the definition of ambition.

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foolm0ron posted...
From: Mr Lasastryke | #019
The idea that if men let women "take charge" (which is still a vague and meaningless expression) they lack ambition is completely nonsensical.
Take charge means that the woman surpasses the man in power/money in the relationship.

Do you not think that letting someone surpass you shows a lack of ambition? If so, you need to look at the definition of ambition.

one could argue that men have become so alpha that they don't even need to compete with women anymore, this hypothesis just falls apart the instant you go out in public and observe people though

Do you not think that letting someone surpass you shows a lack of ambition?

No.

I let Magnus Carlsen surpass me because I know I'll never be as good a chess player as he is. Does this mean I lack the ambition to become a better chess player? No.

women get with losers who make less then they do all the time

you just have to be an alpha loser instead of a beta loser

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I personally wouldn't have a problem with a woman making more than me in a relationship

it could be because I don't really want children or get married though

I could see children being a problem when the woman makes more because the man will have to actually do stuff around the house and with the kids and well let's face it most men are pretty bad in dealing with children in general

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From: Mr Lasastryke | #020
Where are you getting this from?

From the fact that women, hypergamous in nature, will view their own value in relation to the non bread-winning husband to be much higher, making her unattracted to him and in most cases scything the head off the relationship before long.

Sure, it can work but it's highly unlikely. You need to read some stuff about female hypergamy.

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But they're not as ambitious about every type of career - engineering and CS will probably always be men's domain. This stat reminds me of others like "colleges are now 60-40 women" - misleading because how many of them are getting degrees in liberal arts, women's studies, etc?

Also important to point out that people in high positions in companies - the ones that actually make decisions that matter, rather than just carrying them out - are still by and large men.

Lastly, this research makes sense - women are largely the ones who must buy every new shiny bauble and trinket, and most "careers" aren't rewarding - they're dull and obvious.

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My mother is the breadwinner, and my parents just celebrated their 22nd anniversary >_>. My best friend's mom is their family's breadwinner too I think.

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From: Mr Lasastryke | #026
Does this mean I lack the ambition to become a better chess player?

It means you are less ambitious than he is, yes, exactly

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_foolmo_
'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods

A country full of Jefferson D'arcy.

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men and women

women and men

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Women are tryhards irl, more at 11

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I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Also, this doesn't mean that men became less ambitious, it means women became substantially more ambitious.

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I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

From: UltimaterializerX | #040
Men definitely became less ambitious.

I'm almost 100% sure that any evidence you have of this is purely anecdotal, but...

Explain.

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I think the 90s "you should feel good about yourself, it's okay to express your feelings" movement was not good for men in general, and made American men less attractive on the whole.

you see those dudes from WW2 photos or old west photos or Civil War photos, they just look more like "real men" than this generation does across the board.

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That's your opinion, Omars.

From: UltimaterializerX | #040
Men definitely became less ambitious.

Women just became more prominent. The less ambitious men were always there, they just never had competition.

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OmarsComin posted...
I think the 90s "you should feel good about yourself, it's okay to express your feelings" movement was not good for men in general, and made American men less attractive on the whole.

you see those dudes from WW2 photos or old west photos or Civil War photos, they just look more like "real men" than this generation does across the board.

wow it's almost as if patriarchal attitudes about masculinity and male behavior is harmful to more than just women or something

From: DSAutoResponder | #045
wow it's almost as if patriarchal attitudes about masculinity and male behavior is harmful to more than just women or something

???

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From: OmarsComin | #042
I think the 90s "you should feel good about yourself, it's okay to express your feelings" movement was not good for men in general, and made American men less attractive on the whole.

Holy s***.

I didn't think it was possible, but I think you've actually found a way to fit your head inside your own ass.

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[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

wow it's almost as if patriarchal attitudes about masculinity and male behavior is harmful to more than just women or something

I think it's the opposite

these attitudes about masculinity described something innate to how attraction is triggered. we weren't setting rules, we were describing them. since we've discarded those notions, marriage rates have decreased, divorce rates have climbed, and men are not finding success nearly as often in the world.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that by changing the way gender dynamics have worked we've made the relationship game worse for both genders. men are just not as attractive, and women can no longer find suitable mates.

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saw this posted on a blog a while back, most frequented by women. they all agreed with the sentiment.



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OmarsComin posted...
wow it's almost as if patriarchal attitudes about masculinity and male behavior is harmful to more than just women or something

I think it's the opposite

these attitudes about masculinity described something innate to how attraction is triggered. we weren't setting rules, we were describing them. since we've discarded those notions, marriage rates have decreased, divorce rates have climbed, and men are not finding success nearly as often in the world.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that by changing the way gender dynamics have worked we've made the relationship game worse for both genders. men are just not as attractive, and women can no longer find suitable mates.

you don't think it's more likely that there has to be a rocky transitional period in which our culture has to work out their preconcieved notions in regards to gender roles and norms?

you can't just expect a near instant revolution in the way people think. growing pains are a part of any normal shift in societal conventions.

sticking to gender binaries just so you don't have to rock the boat is kind of a poor outlook.

also

OmarsComin posted...
saw this posted on a blog a while back, most frequented by women. they all agreed with the sentiment.



"women agree with this" is the new "my black friends." women are just as easily affected by stereotypes and the like as anyone else.