Board 8 > Zombie Muhammad assaulted, judge throws it out [dwmf]

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 7:51:00 PM
#1:


So, remember when Oklahoma amended their constitution to make it illegal for judges to consider Sharia law in their rulings? Remember how thoroughly they were mocked by the media? Remember how a federal appeals court threw it out because they claimed nobody would ever even try to do that?

Well, here we are

http://news.yahoo.com/penn-judge-muslims-allowed-attack-people-insulting-mohammad-210000330.html

Basically, if you offend a Muslim, it's legal for him to assault you.

http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/2012/02/28/penn-judge-tosses-case-in-which-muslim-was-accused-of-attacking-atheist-yahoo-news/

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Biolizard28
02/28/12 7:54:00 PM
#2:


I hesitate to say this but... terrorists win?

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SpeedYoshi
02/28/12 7:59:00 PM
#3:


threw the case out after ruling that there was insufficient evidence.

oh

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paperwarior
02/28/12 7:59:00 PM
#4:


The defendant was just fighting the undead plague.

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Justin_Crossing
02/28/12 8:00:00 PM
#5:


if all you do is whine about the state of your country why don't you move

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red sox 777
02/28/12 8:05:00 PM
#6:


This will be appealed. I doubt the judge's ruling will stand.

There are thousands of judges across the land, this judge is just a state court trial judge. Some of our judges are inevitably going to make mistakes, and it's not terribly alarming unless it happens in an appellate court.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:07:00 PM
#7:


From: red sox 777 | #006
This will be appealed. I doubt the judge's ruling will stand.

There are thousands of judges across the land, this judge is just a state court trial judge. Some of our judges are inevitably going to make mistakes, and it's not terribly alarming unless it happens in an appellate court.


Shrugging this off as a mistake seems kind of ridiculous. We're talking about the first amendment here. It's like, you know, kind of important for him to understand that.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:08:00 PM
#8:


From: Justin_Crossing | #005
if all you do is whine about the state of your country why don't you move


Do you know of a freer country?

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red sox 777
02/28/12 8:11:00 PM
#9:


Shrugging this off as a mistake seems kind of ridiculous.

Well, a mistake on the part of whoever made that judge a judge. Not a reasonable mistake on the law. It is troubling I agree but I wouldn't be too alarmed until you see an appellate court spouting similar reasoning.

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Justin_Crossing
02/28/12 8:12:00 PM
#10:


From: SmartMuffin | #008
Do you know of a freer country?


Any developed country?

Unless you're one of those classical liberalist types that thinks a lack of regulation leads to good things like the housing bubble.

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SlymDayspring
02/28/12 8:15:00 PM
#11:


Do you know of a freer country?

Somalia

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:16:00 PM
#12:


Unless you're one of those classical liberalist types that thinks a lack of regulation leads to good things like the housing bubble.

The housing bubble was created, intentionally by the Federal Reserve. Try again.

Well, a mistake on the part of whoever made that judge a judge. Not a reasonable mistake on the law. It is troubling I agree but I wouldn't be too alarmed until you see an appellate court spouting similar reasoning.

Would you agree that given this decision, Oklahoma's decision to amend their constitution to prohibit judges looking to Sharia law is appropriate?

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:17:00 PM
#13:


Somalia

Nope. Somalia doesn't have no government, it has multiple factions claiming the authority of government. Somalia does not represent how free markets go wrong, because it never had free markets.

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Justin_Crossing
02/28/12 8:17:00 PM
#14:


The housing bubble was created, intentionally by the Federal Reserve. Try again.

oh man i'm sigging this gem

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MoogleKupo141
02/28/12 8:19:00 PM
#15:


SmartMuffin posted...
From: Justin_Crossing | #005
if all you do is whine about the state of your country why don't you move
Do you know of a freer country?


Try Sealand. Only four people live there. With your military background you should be able to overtake their regime and make it the great nation you want to live in.

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SlymDayspring
02/28/12 8:19:00 PM
#16:


Somalia doesn't have no government

first of all, LOL

second of all, I was not saying Somalia represents the free market going wrong. I said it is more free by your definition which seems to be 'no government power'.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:29:00 PM
#17:


oh man i'm sigging this gem

Thanks. More people need to know the truth.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:30:00 PM
#18:


So, I'm really curious here.

You all believe it's a really good legal precedent that it's fine to physically assault someone of they make fun if your religion?

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JeffreyRaze
02/28/12 8:31:00 PM
#19:


I don't think anyone's said that. >_>

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red sox 777
02/28/12 8:31:00 PM
#20:


Would you agree that given this decision, Oklahoma's decision to amend their constitution to prohibit judges looking to Sharia law is appropriate?

I was going to say that I think Oklahoma's law was great, but now that I think it, it's a bit more complicated an issue that I thought before.

Do judges have free speech? If they do, how can we ban them from talking about sharia in their opinions? For example, say a judge was writing an opinion upholding a law banning same-sex marriage. He might have a sentence in there that reads something like, "Looking at legal codes throughout the course of human history, in such codes as the Code of Hammurabi, the Mosaic Law, the Twelve Tables, the Code of Justinian, Sharia, and English Common Law, we find that marriage is only ever contemplated as between opposite sexes."

Would this reasoning be disallowed under Oklahoma law? It's fine to say that judges should consider nothing but the Constitution, statutes, and precedent, but the reality is that it's not so simple. If it was, we wouldn't need a judiciary because it would always be obvious what the law was. For example, the 4th Amendment bans unreasonable search and seizure. Well what on earth does unreasonable mean? If you were a judge, and you weren't allowed to use any external sources, such as common sense, custom, history, statistical evidence, etc. in your opinion, how could you write an opinion explaining your decision?

It's clear that external sources like common sense must be allowed. But then, why single out Sharia as something that cannot be cited?

It's very clearly established in US law that Sharia cannot be cited as binding law. We didn't need Oklahoma's amendment for that.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 8:40:00 PM
#21:


It's very clearly established in US law that Sharia cannot be cited as binding law.

And yet, this happened.

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JeffreyRaze
02/28/12 8:45:00 PM
#22:


His ruling didn't toss the case based on Sharia Law, he cited lack of evidence as the cause. Passing Oklahoma's amendment would have not done anything in this case.

EDIT: I'm not gonna say whether or not Sharia Law was what he actually was considering for that, just that because he didn't use it as grounds for anything in the trial legally speaking, the amendment would do nothing.

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red sox 777
02/28/12 8:53:00 PM
#23:


Well, the only thing you can do about judges not following the law is to let an appellate court overrule them. I mean, if it were on the books that you couldn't mention sharia, this judge could still do it anyway.

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foolm0ron
02/28/12 9:00:00 PM
#24:


From: Justin_Crossing | #005
if all you do is whine about the state of your country why don't you move


The same people who say this kind of stuff will argue that it's not feasible to move from one state to another just to have a homosexual marriage.

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SmartMuffin
02/28/12 9:05:00 PM
#25:


I feel like the whole "if you don't like it you can just move" may quite possibly be the one fallacious argument I've refuted most often on this board.

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red sox 777
02/28/12 9:07:00 PM
#26:


That's possibly the worst argument I've seen on this board.

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#27
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MoogleKupo141
02/28/12 10:07:00 PM
#28:


SmartMuffin posted...
I feel like the whole "if you don't like it you can just move" may quite possibly be the one fallacious argument I've refuted most often on this board.

it's not falatious at all! You can move. I

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SmartMuffin
02/29/12 6:39:00 AM
#29:


But it's incredibly complicated.

It's basically the equivalent of saying "If you don't like high gas prices you can just start your own oil company"

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SlymDayspring
02/29/12 6:48:00 AM
#30:


yes, suggesting you just move rather than complain about your country is ridiculous

It's basically the equivalent of saying "If you don't like high gas prices you can just start your own oil company"

but this retort is hilarious from a free market supporter

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SmartMuffin
02/29/12 6:53:00 AM
#31:


I think they're about similar though.

The average citizen is not nearly equipped with the resources to do either of those things, but they are both technically possible, especially for the rich.

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Raka_Putra
02/29/12 6:59:00 AM
#32:


If your only criteria for a good country is freedom, well...good luck with that.

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SmartMuffin
02/29/12 7:11:00 AM
#33:


From: Raka_Putra | #032
If your only criteria for a good country is freedom, well...good luck with that.


Well, freedom will create prosperity, equality, and all of the other "good things" that can exist in a country.

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metroid composite
02/29/12 7:15:00 AM
#34:


SmartMuffin posted...
I think they're about similar though.

The average citizen is not nearly equipped with the resources to do either of those things, but they are both technically possible, especially for the rich.


Moving isn't that hard. I've lived in five different cities in two different countries.

Let's put it this way: I think the average Mexican citizen has fewer resources than you, yet several of them manage to move to America. What's your excuse?

On the other hand, I don't know any Mexican citizens who own oil companies. Nor am I likely to ever have the means to own an oil company, for that matter.

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SmartMuffin
02/29/12 7:23:00 AM
#35:


Let's put it this way: I think the average Mexican citizen has fewer resources than you, yet several of them manage to move to America. What's your excuse?

Well, assuming you're ONLY talking strictly about legal immigration, we've been over this many times before.

The United States is unique in its decision to tax the income of citizens no matter where they live. To escape the United States tax burden, you can't just move, you have to renounce your citizenship, which is incredibly costly, burdensome, and time-consuming.

Also, nearly every other nation in the world has MUCH stricter immigration restrictions than the US does. We're one of the easiest countries in the world to gain citizenship of, and basically the hardest to get rid of it.

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