Rules: There may be spoilers for all seven books and 8 movies Each match will last for exactly 24 hours. Any votes after that point will not count. Discussion is encouraged but not required. Make sure all of your votes are obvious. I should know who you are voting for, basically don't bury your vote in the middle of a paragraph. No alt-voting. Ties will be replayed the next day with the rest of the matches. No vote-saves or rallying for specific characters. Telling people to vote is encouraged but don't tell them how to vote! Don't complain about the seeds, they were the result of a save-my. Because matches can overlap, results will be in this topic. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61327435
(1)Severus Snape (1)Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore
...Damn, this should probably be the final; semis are still cool I guess.
Screen time is irrelevant, they've both got more than enough.
Neither character is particularly relateable, and I have no inclination to dress up as either for halloween. So...that's not a factor for me this time around.
Depth...they're a clear case for #1 and #2 in the series as far as character development, and surprises about the characters.
Style...Snape's got plenty--see the part where he talks circles around Bellatrix, or completely shuts down Harry in 1v1, or has an awesome duel with McGonigal. I think Dumbledore's probably going to win style if I go into a quotefest, but not to the point that I think it should decide the match, except maybe as a tiebreaker.
Humor--Dumbledore's got it, Snape doesn't.
So...it really comes down to: Dumbledore's ahead in a couple of flashy silly categories, and they're both quite good at character depth. Is Snape better at character depth, and not only that but better by a large-enough margin that I'd vote for him over Dumbledore? And...I mean, I think there is some argument here--it bugs me that Dumbledore's characterization was not foreshadowed, unlike Snape who had amazing foreshadowing, and even when we get Dumbledore's past revealed, Rowling didn't tell us some details like that he was gay until after the book.
Umm...hmm...let me think about this. No vote for now.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
The hideous woman, Snake (Snape). The match is better than the potential finals. If I can be "objective" and take off my Gildeory fan goggles, they're probably the two best characters in the series. If Jo ever wanted to make a prequel, picking one of these characters would ensure a day one purchase from me.
Snape was a character who was absolutely amazing when the series was not complete. He was this mystery. After book 5 we were wondering "is he really on our side?" After book 6 we were wondering "is he really on their side?"
Now that the mystery is solved, however, I've...seen him described in these topics as "just a triple agent who does what he does for unrequited love", which...now that the series is complete, pretty much sums up his entire character. When the series was incomplete, it felt like there was a lot more to him; every little thing about him was scrutinized to try and figure out whose side he was really on. And...frankly, I was disappointed when I read book 7 that it felt like nothing new about him was really revealed. I mean, mostly, yes, because I had picked up on every single piece of foreshadowing, so I already knew he was in love with Lily, right down to small details like "he was the one Petunia overheard about the Dementors".
Dumbledore...ends up quite an interesting grey character. He writes to Grindlewald with stuff like "for the greater good", which is pretty much an "ends justify the means" argument. At first this can be dismissed as him being young, or being enamoured or influenced by Grindlewald. But once we realize how he manipulates and sacrifices everyone, certainly including Harry, this all starts taking a bit of a darker tone.
We also get to see a pretty significant character flaw--he feels shackled by Ariana, and wishes he could be out doing grandiose things. Which leads, of course, to Ariana's death. I'm not sure Snape really has a character flaw that's as believable and as interesting as this. Sure, Snape has the character flaw of "he's a total jerk, and thinks Harry is James", but it's hard to get fully into his head here, since Harry is actually very little like James if Snape's memories are to be believed. I also find it hard to be sympathetic for Snape being just an all-around jerk, because there...isn't really a reason for him to be. Not that there necessarily needs to be. But with Dumbledore we can get into his head, and see his motivation for why he would feel resentful of Ariana.
So...actually, something that's been bugging me: why does Snape want all of this kept a secret? Why is it so important that nobody ever finds out that he loved Lily, to the point that he tells Dumbledore that it must remain between them? I mean, other than the obvious "for plot reasons, this stuff was supposed to be a surprise, ergo Snape wanted to keep it a secret". Yeah, but what's his motivation for keeping it a secret?
Hmm...ok, yeah, Snape needs to win the character depth category by a non-trivial margin to get my vote, and right now he seems to be not actually winning.
(1)Severus Snape (1)Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
I have several problems with Snape, as stated before. I feel his motivations are a little weak -- at least in far as how much they (or how little they) change his personality. Snape loved Lily. That's great motivation. The problem is... throughout the series, he sees Harry as untalented. Incapable. He's below average. And yet this below average boy is who is tasked to defeat Lord Voldemort, the one who killed the great love of Snape's life. And when Dumbledore asks him to make sure that Harry gets the Sword of Gryffindor, what is Snape's reaction? "Okay" His only question is why Harry needs the sword. Not "Do you really think that he's up to the task?"
He has some hidden depths -- but the problem is they're TOO hidden. We don't really get any hints or inclinations towards his hidden depths.
And I have to wonder if he ever really realized that he essentially made Harry an orphan. The boy he tortures every chance he gets -- the boy who is the son of the great love of his life (yes, he looks like James, but Snape is still a bully, and he's far crueler than necessary towards Harry, and even Hermione). Did he feel no remorse for getting James killed at all? I still remember the situation of "life debt" being brought up in regards to Pettigrew. Should Snape not had the same similar inclinations towards James, even if it were only slightly? Did he at least not feel guilt for getting Lily killed, Lily being Harry's mother? Did the connection between mother and son just go over his head? Surely not, seeing as Harry has his mother's eyes.
Harry is a far more forgiving person than Snape, obviously. Given that his second son is named Albus Severus. Snape bullied Harry terribly, and even affected his class work (Harry is actually decent at potions even without the Half-Blood Prince helping him)
I think Harry gave Snape more of a chance, than Snape ever gave him. Harry was HORRIFIED when he learned what his father had done to Snape. The same Snape that had bullied him all those years.
Dumbledore of course has some of the same problems. We don't really learn much about him, until he's already dead. But then again -- who's side he is on is always clear. And I think a lot of it matches his personality better than it does for Snape.
"You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice.
It almost feels like Snape from that point, never really changed that much. I don't feel as if he'd feel remorse if Voldemort had spared Lily, but caused her so much anguish by killing her husband and son.
And worst of all he becomes a bully just like James Potter. I often wonder if he ever saw it or not.
Dumbledore is... great with humor. His funeral is a tear jerker, especially when it comes to Harry thinking of Dumbledore's idea of a few words. From the moment Harry got that Chocolate Frog Card, Harry looked up to Dumbledore. And he was Dumbledore's man through and through. He wasn't perfect -- he could've stationed a real wizard to watch Harry. He could've made sure Harry had occlumency training over the summer. He could've done many things differently. And yet, for the most part, things go right.
Dumbledore in a world of magic, was a bit magical himself.
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See You In Another Life, Brother. New York Giants - The Patriot Slayers
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Do you think cats are clever? They don't hold a candle to dogs and SuperNiceDog is the cream of the crop since he won the Guru contest without breaking a sweat.
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
Severus Snape is a man that wears many hats in Fanfics, and boy do I not even want to get into the slash ones. But anyway Snape can both play the villain and the good guy very well. He can be tuned to be snarky but light, snarky but evil, or he can be thrown into alternate universes where writers are amused by how not-snarky they can make him just for chuckles. In many humor stories Snape as he is in canon has been tossed around a bit by powerful Harrys for his amusement, and general my amusement as well. Snape more than any other side character can fit just about any role from nemesis to mentor to dunce that Harry kicks around for everyone's amusement. A well written Snape is always appreciated, and often I find it is hard to mess him up if you have any sense.
Albus Dumbledore, on the other hand, has a big shackle around him: The dark, manipulative Dumbledore trope that seems to be quite popular these days. I absolutely hate these stories because Dumbledore, while having his character flaws, so obviously loved Harry and tried his best to prepare him. Yes he manipulated a bit, but never so darkly and never for his own ends like so many of these stupid fanfics would want to imply. And yet there they go, always assuming that just because he has a clever streak in him that he is well suited to be the villain. Except he isn't, as if he wanted to be the villain he'd have had complete dominion over the wizarding world years ago and no upstart Harry Potter was going to stop him, as if.
But that's the bad side, the good side of Albus Dumbledore in fanfiction is simply amazing. He can be funny, he can appear addled, and he can be as grandfatherly as they come. Then someone pisses him off. Dumbledore, as in canon, never needs to really shout. Mad Dumbledore, done right, is probably the best thing of the ever. He'll speak calmly, won't raise his voice, but he has tremendous power and this shows very well in some of the best fanfics.
I am not honestly sure who has the best fanfiction resume. Dumbledore is dragged down a bit by the darker stories but if I counted everyone's worst against them Snape wouldn't get very far!
Eh, I just enjoy reading Dumbledore more. Too funny, too powerful emotionally, and he has way more badass scenes in fanfiction than Snape.
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Behold the majesty that is Doom. Feast upon his greatness, and know you will never measure up. http://img.imgcake.com/Punny/scenemaybecompletepngre.png
MC and C&S have pretty much covered what I would have said. Snape's not actually that deep. Some of his actions are fairly contrived just to keep you guessing. But above all, he's a bully... and not only that, he's a teacher bullying children, including one child whose parents he's partially responsible for killing. No excuse.
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"Congratulations Thomas and Sylvia! But their happiness does not continue long..."
Dumbledore is a lot better than Snape, but on the other hand he does some pretty dumb things too. The main one being his problem with never telling anyone anything. I just finished rereading book 5 and it's pretty ridiculous his secrecy was. I mean he KNOWS that Harry is destined to fight Voldemort to the death, and he KNOWS that Voldemort wants to use Harry to get the prophecy, yet he tells Harry absolutely nothing, for no good reason.
I mean, he said that he didn't want to burden Harry with knowing about the prophecy. But how about telling Harry why he needs Occlumency? If he had just said one thing about the possibility of Voldemort planting false images in his head, maybe Harry wouldn't have been tricked. Or he could have told Harry why he wasn't talking to him. Or given Harry a way to contact him in case of emergency. I dunno, it just seems kinda dumb that Voldemort's plan worked - it never would have worked if Harry had been reasonably informed.
-- I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience