Board 8 > So is it universally agreed that Nintendo sold out?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think so.

--
FEVER. PRESCRIPTION. COWBELL.
http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/sig/newblack/chicken%20taco.jpg

They're a company. They sell stuff. I see no problem here.

Though I guess the answer is yes.

--
PSN: JDTAY87

Big Nintendo stuff generally gets sold out pretty fast, yeah.

The Wii was sold out for over a year, so of course.

--
"The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima
SuperNiceDog: Bracket: Good, Taste: Bad

consensus(and reality) says yes, but b8 will say no.

Maybe

--
Try hard.
Camp harder.

I hate when businesses try to make money.

--
quate the ravens never more

I wonder what things would be like now if Sony and Nintendo actually collaborated on a system around the Playstation era.

--
"Filthy lawbreaker, unhand that vending machine!" - Casey Jones

snailien posted...
I wonder what things would be like now if Sony and Nintendo actually collaborated on a system around the Playstation era.


Sega would still be around and it would have been Apple instead of Microsoft that got into the console business

--
http://i.imgur.com/8h0dg.jpg
http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/CaptainRockman.png

SHINE GET 64 posted...
Sega would still be around and it would have been Apple instead of Microsoft that got into the console business

First part: Awesome. Second part: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

*sigh* I guess things worked out for the best.

--
PSN: JDTAY87

I hate when businesses try to make money.

they were already making money, and a lot of developers do make money without sacrificing their artistic integrity

marketing should exist to sell your vision, not create the vision to be sold.

how are these at all different

--
TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

creating something you think is good and then trying to sell it to the people most likely to buy it is different than creating something that you think will appeal to the widest possible audience, when you sacrifice your own vision for the sake of reaching the widest possible audience you're no longer selling art, you're selling a commodity.

commoditization of art is a big part of why almost everything the RIAA and MPAA put out is garbage, I'd rather not see it reach that level in gaming too

TheRock1525 posted...
marketing should exist to sell your vision, not create the vision to be sold.

how are these at all different

You...don't understand how it's different?

........

--
FEVER. PRESCRIPTION. COWBELL.
http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/sig/newblack/chicken%20taco.jpg

The Wii has no good games, since they don't have the technology to have all the multiplatform games that the PS3/360 have. This isn't obvious? Their mainline games are just as well-received as they've been in recent years.

--
My bracket wasn't good enough to beat SuperNiceDog's in the GameFAQS Rivalry Rumble. Congrats!
This is Yesmar.

Their mainline games are just as well-received as they've been in recent years.

SS is extremely polarizing, brawl is polarizing, other m made the metroid fanbase rabidly angry, star fox is dead, f-zero is dead

nintendo never had good third party support, their problem now is that they can't claim to be a great developer themselves anymore so there's -no- reason to buy their system

Xbyte posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
marketing should exist to sell your vision, not create the vision to be sold.

how are these at all different

You...don't understand how it's different?

........

probably even a bigger problem than a director shilling out fanservice btw is the marketing and business heads peering over their shoulders making suggestions constantly. this is why FFXII is a bad game and yasumi matsuno is no longer with square, this is why motion controls aggravatingly find their way into every little thing in nintendo games where they clearly do not belong, even in a western developed game like DKCR. NCL's mandate that it pushes on it's game directors is ruining a lot of games that would otherwise be a lot better.

YOU might not like Nintendo's games, but they are as an overall rule well received, at least as much as they were in the Gamecube era.

--
My bracket wasn't good enough to beat SuperNiceDog's in the GameFAQS Rivalry Rumble. Congrats!
This is Yesmar.

YOU might not like Nintendo's games, but they are as an overall rule well received, at least as much as they were in the Gamecube era.

nintendo's plummeting popularity is observable, take a look at SS' sales data, it's hilarious. sold decently at first, word of mouth quickly caught up and it tail spun

SS's sales weren't great, and neither were SMG2's. But it's hard to deny that titles like NSMBWii, NSMBDS, SM3DL, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Kart DS, Mario Kart 7, Wii Fit/Sports/Sports Resort, Pokemon HG/SS, Pokemon Black/White have sold well.

I'd much rather SS and SMG2 were outselling them, but the fact that they're not doesn't mean Nintendo's software sales have dropped.

--
Who knew the Rivalry Rumble would be so predictable? SuperNiceDog, that's who.

mario sells well, I never denied that. mario is also oddly enough the series that has been the least damaged here, they keep all the shilling to spinoffs and the main mario games are still focused jumping games without a whole lot of superfluous BS

no more than sony or microsoft.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

and for a more detailed answer than that:
mario got better from its prior games (especially when you realize it was Sunshine).
zelda got better from its prior games (especially when you realize it was the handhelds)
pokemon got better.
they brought back donkey kong and put out a fantastic game.
they brought back kirby and put out TWO fantastic game.
they're bringing back kid icarus with a game that might as well be called something completely different and looks to be amazing.

but no they 'sold out' by opening gaming to a newer audience of which its competitors are looking into and trying their hardest to crack it as well, whether it's through peripheals (Move/Kinect), systems (Vita, rumors of the 360's sequel controller and likely will be the case for the PS3 too), or operating system (Windows 8).
they certainly made more money out of it and made a lot more series to appeal to casuals starting with Nintendogs and the DS (so years before the Wii), but no more than its competitors, arguably less than Sony, and definitely less than MS who are tweaking their entire operating system to match the influx of new people.

but all 3 are doing the same thing: reaching new audiences without trying to destroy their core base. nintendo just happens to be a much bigger studio and can pull off new IPs while keeping their old ones fresh and improve upon them.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Yes, every single person in the universe agrees.

--
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/593815/frasier-and-niles-dance-o.gif

From: Liquid Wiind | #013
commoditization of art is a big part of why almost everything the RIAA and MPAA put out is garbage,

I don't think you understand what they do...

--
"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

compared to other Japanese game developers not really. there's a lot more to complain about with say Capcom or SquareEnix than Nintendo. Nintendo is still making good games at least even if I'm not a fan of their recent controller design decisions.

Their biggest defense against this would be not gouging people on dumb-ass DLC

--
Official King of the Brawl Online Board(Brought to you by Rocky Patel Premium Cigars)
http://img.imgcake.com/IMG0194JPGpy.jpg

Have you seen rhythm heaven fever released last week? Developed, published by Nintendo, it's unique, creative, and cheap.

--
People who don't finish their sentences
I'm a Team Fortress 2 superfan! Ask me anything!

From: Kotetsu534 | #060
SS's sales weren't great, and neither were SMG2's. But it's hard to deny that titles like NSMBWii, NSMBDS, SM3DL, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Kart DS, Mario Kart 7, Wii Fit/Sports/Sports Resort, Pokemon HG/SS, Pokemon Black/White have sold well.

I'd much rather SS and SMG2 were outselling them, but the fact that they're not doesn't mean Nintendo's software sales have dropped.

Haha, what.

Skyward Sword is the fastest selling Zelda title. It won't be the highest selling, but only because it came so late in the Wii's life cycle. It's still going to be around the third highest selling game in the series and sell over 6 million lifetime. Similarly, SMG2 has sold 7 million copies. If that's "not great" you have some pretty ridiculous standards.

Nintendo have actually come out and said how happy they are with those sales, too. Skyward Sword in particular. Incidentally!

From: Liquid Wiind | #056
SS is extremely polarizing, brawl is polarizing, other m made the metroid fanbase rabidly angry, star fox is dead, f-zero is dead

Yeah, there's never been a non-universally loved game from Nintendo.

Except that's all of them.

Made by everyone.

Every game is polarising to an extent. Vocal minorities are unimportant, frankly. By and large, Skyward Sword, Brawl and whatever were pretty well-loved. A couple of angry voices on the internet don't matter. You have a point about Other M, in fairness, but Star Fox had a successful release this year, remake or otherwise, and I will be very surprised if we don't see another F-Zero at some point.

--
Something something something
^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig

SMG worldwide sales: 10.5M
SMG2 worldwide sales: 6.8M

Twilight Princess (Wii version only) worldwide sales: 5.9M
Skyward Sword worldwide sales: 3.5M (as of end of December) (cannot find any more recent source... certainly nothing to indicate it's on course to hit 6M, since it isn't charting anywhere I can see)

Obviously the "not great" was in the context of their series. Certainly, they don't compare to the sales of the games I listed. For context, including TP's GC sales, it's currently doubling SS, and SMG2 is still a long way behind SMG1.

--
Who knew the Rivalry Rumble would be so predictable? SuperNiceDog, that's who.

A 5 year old game is doubling a 6 month old game in sales?

TELL ME MORE

--
_foolmo_
'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me

nintendo games, especially mario, carry some incredibly legs to them. fact is galaxy 1 has a 3 year head start on galaxy 2 and being 3 million behind really doesn't paint an impossible picture for it to get really, really close. also for 3d mario that's actually DAMN good considering it, within a year and a half, surpassed all of SM64 DS and Sunshine, which kept selling even into the Wii's life. those aren't bad numbers within its series at all and are actually pretty damn good figures.

zelda just plain never was that high selling but... really it's so recent that thinking it can cover a couple million in a couple years is perfectly within reason, especially as the price drops over time. it doesn't have that much longer of a future but asking for a major nintendo game to do 1 mil a year isn't that crazy. same goes for mario (hell especially mario) because that actually would put it ahead if galaxy 1 stayed the same. it won't, so there's that, but it breaking 10 wouldn't shock me either.

--
The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

....Theyre a company.

Theyre supposed to sell things.

--
Oh SuperNiceDog's doing it again dude.
SuperNiceDog, you ain't no pimp dude

...people are actually posting serious replies in this obviously moronic topic.

What the heck?

Just let the deranged fanboys yell at their computer screen while you have fun playing Nintendo's objectively excellent video games. That is unless you don't have a trolling fetish.

They haven't sold out, but I wish they adhered to quality control like they used to.

--
Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/

From: Liquid Wiind | #011
a lot of developers do make money without sacrificing their artistic integrity

Name one relevant company that values originality and integrity over money.

And by relevant, I don't mean an indie company that had one good game in their entire being or a company that's currently begging its playerbase for handouts.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

MoogleKupo would have made a funnier topic.

--
Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police
http://i55.tinypic.com/10z8d29.jpg

From: Kotetsu534 | #110
SMG worldwide sales: 10.5M
SMG2 worldwide sales: 6.8M

Twilight Princess (Wii version only) worldwide sales: 5.9M
Skyward Sword worldwide sales: 3.5M (as of end of December) (cannot find any more recent source... certainly nothing to indicate it's on course to hit 6M, since it isn't charting anywhere I can see)

Obviously the "not great" was in the context of their series. Certainly, they don't compare to the sales of the games I listed. For context, including TP's GC sales, it's currently doubling SS, and SMG2 is still a long way behind SMG1.

This has already been said, but Nintendo games. They have legs. And "in the context of their series"? What part of "fastest selling Zelda" don't you understand? If you put it side by side with Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword wins. And TP didn't reach 6 million (or 8, depending on how you count) overnight. It did it through gradual sales. Which SS will also get. It's been doing better than TP so far, it'll probably continue to do so until after the Wii U launches. So 6 million is realistic, if somewhere towards the upper boundary. Of course, even 5 million would put it at fourth or fifth in the series. So in the context of its series, it's sold very well indeed.

Similar case for SMG2. It's already outsold other Mario games like Sunshine, and will continue to sell well. And while we're at it, bear in mind that you're comparing a summer release to a holiday release.

--
Something something something
^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig

Biolizard28 posted...
From: Liquid Wiind | #011
a lot of developers do make money without sacrificing their artistic integrity
Name one relevant company that values originality and integrity over money.

And by relevant, I don't mean an indie company that had one good game in their entire being or a company that's currently begging its playerbase for handouts.

valve

--
FEVER. PRESCRIPTION. COWBELL.
http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/sig/newblack/chicken%20taco.jpg

Creme of the Crop users ITT.

--
http://img.imgcake.com/tumblrlydlw2kYU21r0x924o1500gifru.gif
http://img.imgcake.com/1326165368699gifme.gif

Only by the same type of fans who always think so-and-so "sold out."

--
Weird. Creepy!

I love these topics.

Xbyte is seriously good at trolling you guys.

--
There was a signature here. It's gone now.
Your face is bees.

From: Xbyte | #039
valve

I said integrity, not shilling f***ing hats in their FPS games for more money than they're worth.

Besides, aside from Portal, what has Valve put out lately that isn't a sequel?

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Biolizard28 posted...
From: Xbyte | #039
valve
I said integrity, not shilling f***ing hats in their FPS games for more money than they're worth.

Besides, aside from Portal, what has Valve put out lately that isn't a sequel?

valve

--
FEVER. PRESCRIPTION. COWBELL.
http://www.xboxlc.com/cards/sig/newblack/chicken%20taco.jpg

TheRock1525 posted...
marketing should exist to sell your vision, not create the vision to be sold.

how are these at all different

That's the difference between game designers coming up with the idea for a game, and the marketing department coming up for the idea for the game and then telling the game designers to go make it.

--
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Name one relevant company that values originality and integrity over money.

I never said over, I'm not suggesting that everyone go for the starving artist scenario, everything does need to be monetized. people in the marketing department shouldn't have creative control, that is all.

an elucidation, I also don't have a problem with "pop" games like CoD or mario or whatever existing either, I have a problem with games that clearly aren't going to be that(zelda and metroid for instance) destroying themselves trying to be that. not every game is going to be a 10 million seller, some things are meant to be niche and filling a niche will make you highly valued by the people who like it(as nintendo used to be). as of late nintendo's mentality is that games that don't hit home run sales numbers are failures, anything that can't live up to mario, pokemon, and wii motion titles is either mutated into something awful(other m) or just shelved because it clearly isn't worth the effort anymore(star fox, f-zero). I don't believe any of these were unprofitable, nintendo is simply greedy.

On a serious note, for them to have sold out, that implies there was ever a time they valued art significantly over money.

Power Glove
ROB
Virtual Boy
Super Mario Bros Super Show
Captain N
Super Mario Bros: The Movie
The Wizard
All of the random candy/food/other products with Nintendo characters slapped on

Frankly, selling out is a stupid concept to apply to any company. A large, successful company will have some people making genuine products, some making products solely to make money, and some finding ways to sell both to as many people as possible. At the worst, they've fallen short on that first category.

--
"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

Frankly, selling out is a stupid concept to apply to any company. A large, successful company will have some people making genuine products, some making products solely to make money, and some finding ways to sell both to as many people as possible. At the worst, they've fallen short on that first category.

fair enough but they've fallen very short on that first category, even sony invests much more in niche projects like team ICO's works. you can actually see a direct comparison in the sound department, zelda consistently sells 5 million + on console but nintendo never thought it was worth it to record live music until SS, ICO sold **** and yet sony took the risk of recording orchestra for SotC. basically at nintendo if you aren't selling like mario or wii sports you're trash.