Board 8 > Top 3 athletes of the 20th century?

(+) Yeah! (+)

your argument lacks "subtlety"

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Your face lacks "subtlety"

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Your mom lacks "subtlety"

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your mom's face lacks "subtlety"

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Your mom's facial lacked "subtlety"

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dammit

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:D

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yeah, Gretzky has the numbers for sure. I just don't see him as being in the mold of a best athlete. he's in the Tiger Woods class of 'really good at their sport but not really what I think of when I think of an athlete'.

seriously

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Gretzky is so overrated it's not even funny.

Most of his records are inflated due to the wide open style of the 80s along with goalies being absolutely terrible. It's hilarious how many highlights you watch where they step inside the blue line and let it rip and the goalie just flails like an idiot, completely missing the puck. If you tried that today... first of all, a defenseman would probably be there to plaster him into the boards. Second of all, the goalie would be out of his crease to cut the angle off completely, and would immediately drop to butterfly. It's statistically impossible to score from there if a goalie knows what the hell he's doing. if you're the shooter you can't even see any open net if a goalie butterflies outside the crease.

They're also inflated due to his team being unstoppable all around. If you put a shutdown guy on Gretzky then Messier is right behind him on the next shift.

Orr, Lemieux and Hasek are all more impressive hockey athletes if you ask me.

Orr because he was the perfect defenseman. He set records that will not be touched for a long time. He went a ridiculous +124 one season. To put that in perspective, +50 is seen as extraordinary.

"According to the Bruins' Phil Esposito, "No matter how fast an opponent was, Bobby could skate faster than him if he needed to do it in the framework of a play. If he was caught up-ice and the other team had an odd-man rush, that's when you saw his truly great speed. Very seldom did he not get back to have a hand in breaking up the play."

Former Montreal Canadiens goaltender Ken Dryden described of Orr: "When he began to move...the sensation was unique: All the Canadiens began backpedaling in a small panic, like beachgoers sighting a coming monster wave. He brought others with him; he wanted them involved. That's what made him so different: It felt like a five-player stampede moving toward you—and at his pace. He pushed his teammates, [because] you're playing with the best player in the league and he's giving you the puck and you just can't mess it up. You had to be better than you'd ever been."

Dominek Hasek because he was the perfect goaltender. He carried a garbage team on his back to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals. He carried the Czechs to a gold medal. if he was on the Red Wings for his entire career he'd probably have 6 Cups. He's second only to Tim Thomas for career save percentage... while playing for a team whose best defenseman was Alexei Zhitnik.

Then Lemiuex was the complete package. He had the hands, smarts and speed of Gretzky while also possessing a massive body. He was a freight train with the maneuverability of a Formula 1 car. Nobody has ever come close to his dominance. If he didn't battle through cancer he would own a lot more records. He would have had the statistically greatest season ever in 1992-1993 had he not missed 20 games.


That being said, Gretzky is still amazing. Just not 1000 points better than everyone else amazing. Use adjusted stats (http://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html):

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_adjusted_career.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/goals_adjusted_career.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/goals_adjusted_season.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_adjusted_season.html

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Rafael Nadal
Roger Federer
Michael Vick

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Most of his records are inflated due to the wide open style of the 80s along with goalies being absolutely terrible.

Legit question and not facetious at all because my knowledge of Ice Hockey is incredibly limited - why is Gretsky so standout? He was like, the dominant player of that time, no? It seems if goalies are that bad it'd be a generally more high-scoring game (was it?) and freakish stats like Gretsky's would be far more common.

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