I liked the format of this episode. It's always neat when an episode of a show can so flawlessly weave three separate points of time together to tell a story. It was also a great tool for delivering backstory on Serenity, as well as how the original crew members came to be employed on the ship. Mal was awesome throughout, especially when he was giving orders to the crew. All the origin stories were interesting. A complaint would be that this was another great chance to develop Zoe, and she was either knocked out or simply taking orders. Also, I wish they would've explained why the crew came back at the end better. They just ended it with Zoe saying that was all on her. Ahh well. It was still a great episode throughout, even though I don't have much to say on it.
Character Ranking: Mal - still a boss Jayne - still has many great moments Inara - still interesting and has a great potential with Mal Kaylee - still quirky and fun Simon - he's getting better every episode and becoming more likable overall Wash - got a little bit of development, and his confrontation with Mal was a great scene. also, dat 'stache. Shepherd - stays the course, which is okay for now Zoe - i still like her, but i really want more development River - i imagine she's going to be a focal point near the end. just waiting to learn why, exactly.
The reason why Zoe was knocked out early was because they have to give Gina Torres time off to go on her honeymoon... So there was a reason for her absence.
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So I'm about 20 minutes into the pilot episode... Does it get better? Because it seems pretty bad right now, and the acting is kind of terrible. Should I press on?
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From: CrimsonOcean | #053 So I'm about 20 minutes into the pilot episode... Does it get better? Because it seems pretty bad right now, and the acting is kind of terrible. Should I press on?
o.0
Not sure if serious? I mean I can understand not liking things about the show if it's just not your thing, but the acting is most certainly not terrible lol.
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I had similar feelings watching the pilot, minus the bad acting. That'll be cleaned up anyways once the characters/actors are settled into their roles. I was worried it was just going to be a large jumble of stuff I wouldn't understand. Do keep going on, though. Once things start picking up, it's really good. This is coming from somebody who normally doesn't watch sci-fi or hour long shows.
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I dunno, it makes me feel like I'm FFXII or something. Like there's just a bunch of stuff going on that I don't really get and I don't find the character's likable or endearing. Maybe that's the problem more than the acting. I'll take your advice Zazi and at least watch through the second episode though, probably just takes a little getting use to. Maybe I was just expecting too much because all I've heard is amazing things.
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I have a new favorite episode. Jayne is a prick, Mal is awesome, and River's story just got a lot more engaging. The end with Mal and Jayne was one of the best scenes in the series so far. I love the way Mal can switch from dutiful to empathetic on a dime.
Character Ranking: Mal - awesome Inara - not doing much, but i still like her a bunch Kaylee - doing her thing Simon - still getting better every episode Jayne - dropped a bunch because he is a filthy prick, but he has a lot of room to grow now and it will make his scenes of heroism better Wash - still him Shepherd - MIA for the entire episode, but for good reason it sounds Zoe - she's there River - growing more, she might move out of this spot yet
And now for funsies, Episode Ranking: Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Out of Gas Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
And War Stories was even better. Return of Adlai Howeveryouspellhislastname, along with gunfights and general badassery from all who were involved. Got some development on Wash and Zoe, as well as River and Shepherd a little bit, and I'm a happy camper.
Character Ranking: Mal Simon Kaylee Jayne Inara Wash Zoe Shepherd River
Episode Ranking: War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Out of Gas Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
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I like Simon. I like the position he has in the storyline, and his dialogue is often well executed.
And oh yeah that torture scene. The guy playing Adlai was an absolute creep and was amazing there, and then watching Mal keep Wash focused on the conversation about Zoe was awesome too. Incredibly well done. The only thing I wish I had seen was a final confrontation between Adlai and Mal where Mal says some cool monologue, punches Adlai, and then walks away.
I like Simon, as well. Never got why he got so much hate. If I had to pick a worst it would probably be Zoe simply because she lacks development compared to the rest, and doesn't have fun quirks or lines often enough to make up for it.
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Ariel actually made me like Jayne more. Although he was a bastard, at the end of the episode you can tell that Mal's wake up call made him rethink his priorities.
Psh. I'm not going to forgive him that easily. Now, if he has a super heroic moment near the end of the series that is related back to Ariel, I'll be willing to forgive him because we are seeing he results of his wake up call. If he just stays the course like he is now, I won't forget what he did on Ariel.
War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Out of Gas Jaynestown
Out of Gas gets even better on rewatches I'd say. But yeah, like I said earlier this is an incredible stretch of episodes. The last four episodes (that's right, you are to the final four now) pretty much alternate in quality, but the only one that can break that 5 pack is probably the final ep.
I didn't like Simon when I frist watched because I didn't like his relationship with Kaylee and that is such a big part of his role in the show. However in rewatched I've come to like him a lot more.
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First off, the beginning of this episode was awesome right away because it introduced three things that I'm really excited about:
1. Potential to further Mal and Inara's relationship 2. Potential to further Simon and River's fugitive status 3. Saffron's return
And after seeing all of this, the episode was as enjoyable as I hoped it would be. Saffron was just as good as she was in Our Mrs. Reynolds, as was the entire crew. The heist was interesting, but the end was the best part of the episode. I loved seeing Inara being involved all along and it being her who got the final one-up on Saffron. I'm slightly disappointed they haven't done too much with her and Mal's relationship still, but I'm holding out hope. I thoroughly loved the end exchange with Simon and Jayne. Simon continues to get better every episode and his actor does an amazing job with the character. Plus, River's "I can kill you with my mind" was awesome. She's becoming more lighthearted and less crazy, which is very welcome.
I am wondering if the actor who played Shepherd had any previous engagements during this string of episodes, because he hasn't been around much. This is disappointing, because I really do like the potential they've established with him and I hope they do something with it in these remaining episodes.
Character Ranking: Mal Simon Inara Kaylee Jayne Wash Shepherd River Zoe
Episode Rankings: War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Trash Out of Gas Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
Good stuff. A dip in comparative quality from the preceding six, but still a very enjoyable episode. Watching Simon and Kaylee interact is sweet, until Simon says something dumb and then Kaylee gets all pissy and acts like a dumb girl. Kaylee's lucky she's really cute or she'd probably be a lot lower on the character rankings.
The plot was different. Tracy was very unlikable, which I'm sure was the point. Stupid punk kid who was in over his head. I don't really like the way he died, but I'm glad he died because he didn't deserve to survive and it's good that they don't cut corners like that by having all happy endings. Zoe got some development, which was nice. Nothing too significant, though. The fed was awesomely acted. He was truly despicable and the actor carried himself amazingly in the role, especially when he was introduced. It also provided some more development for Shepherd, who may need it even more than River at this point. My guess is Shepherd is a former fed. There's two episodes left, and I really hope this gets expanded on in that time, or that it gets a lot of play in Serenity (which I'm very excited to watch as I assume it will tie a lot of things things i"m hopeful to see expansion on up). I was really hoping Simon would be more relevant at the end, but I guess that kind of heroism isn't really in his character, at least not at this point. The hand holding was a nice touch, though.
It was a good episode and I enjoyed it very much, and it's still middle of the pack for the series. Yay Firefly.
Character Rankings: Mal Simon Inara Jayne Kaylee Shepherd Wash River Zoe
Episode Rankings: War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Trash Out of Gas The Message Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
It's probably underrated because Tracy was just an awful person and I could feel myself not enjoying it as much when he was on screen. It would've been more enjoyable it Mal and Zoe had to completely turn on him and go for the total killshot because he came fully unhinged.
I absolutely love these opening recaps that foreshadow what the relevant relationships and storylines for the episode are going to be. They get me excited because I am really invested in all of these relationships so I'm always pleased to know there's going to be some advancement regarding them. Being excited going into an episode is a very good thing.
There's still nothing on the Simon-Kaylee front, which is fine considering all that went down on the Mal-Inara front. However, what happened there has upset me. Not in a "I'm so unhappy with how the writers did this" way, but in a "oh dude Mal that blows bro" way. This is a relationship I've been wanting to see advanced for awhile now. It was certainly advanced, just in a way completely opposite of how I wanted, and it gave me a sad face. I really dislike that Nandi chick because dammit Mal was supposed to sleep with Inara you dumb whore and now you died and ****ed everything up since you can't step out of the middle now because you are dead and forever in the middle of their relationship. So frustrating. And now Inara is leaving and I'm just all :(. That's okay, though, because I love episodes and shows that pull at my heart strings like that and make me feel so connected to the characters.
Aside from all of that, though, it was actually a really funny episode. And there was also stuff between Wash and Zoe about a baby, but that was dumb and Zoe is being a dumb woman if she wants a baby at this point in time, so I hope nothing comes from that conversation and was meant as nothing but furthering the idea that "these two are married and they have real married people issues so you'd best all see that." Also, that was the first baby River ever delivered as well.
Character Rankings: Mal Simon Inara Jayne Kaylee Wash Shepherd River Zoe
Episode Rankings: War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Trash Heart of Gold Out of Gas The Message Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
So yeah, it looks like they are going to use this episode to fully flesh out the "what the hell is up with River Tam" storyline.
Oh, it appears they didn't do that. Oh well, because...
Holy **** that episode. Like, holy ****. First of all, Early was one cold mutha. Anything I ever said about any villain pales in comparison to him, even after he showed himself to be a little crazy. His exchange with Kaylee was absolutely chilling, and then he went to just being comic relief. How the hell do they make that kind of move? Early was just amazing. Absolutely amazing. Then there was the total script flipping with Mal not being the hero in any way whatsoever. I gotta say, it was slightly refreshing to see him lose a fight (though let's not be making a habit of that now). And then Simon was just top notch, and he even got his hero moment that I've been hoping for. Everything about that episode just amazed me.
I know all that's left is the movie, which is disappointing both in the sense that the series is almost over, and in the sense that there still feels like there is so much left unresolved.
-Mal and Inara. Is she leaving the ship? I assume yes still and maybe Serenity will open with her having done that already or something. -What is up with River? What did those feds with the stick that killed people want? What's their deal? -It was said Shepherd wasn't a Shepherd in this episode. More stock to my "former fed" theory? Maybe he's a bounty hunter himself? -Simon and Kaylee. Something has to blossom here, right? -Other stuff that I've maybe forgotten
I looked at IMDb, and holy hell FOX really screwed up the intended order of the show, didn't they? This was supposed to be the 10th episode I guess? Like, what was FOX's deal here? Dumbasses.
The series is over, and all that is left is the movie. I'm very sad about this, because Firefly has 100% lived up to the hype I had heard going in. This is a genre that I've had no experience in, at least with regards to television watching (unless you count, like, Power Rangers in Space), and I fell in love completely with an hour-long drama (with much comedy). Amazing. The characters were wonderful, the episode plots were interesting and inspired, and the universe was mysterious and unpredictable. Also, Joss Whedon is 2/2 in making things that I enjoy very, very much so. It might be time to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer here soon. I can't believe I liked this show as much as I did.
Now, the question becomes do I watch Serenity tonight? I work tomorrow and have a final to study for, but I'm totally itching for that final fix. Damn it all.
Character Rankings: Mal Simon Inara Kaylee Jayne Shepherd Wash River Zoe
Episode Rankings: Objects in Space War Stories Ariel Our Mrs. Reynolds Trash Heart of Gold Out of Gas The Message Jaynestown Shindig Train Job Safe Bushwhacked Pilot
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Serenity was just augh. I mean, AUGH. Not because it was bad, however. It was certainly enjoyable. I'm not sure about satisfying, though. The production seemed rushed, which is understandable. They had two hours to try and wrap up, or at least pay homage to, storylines that I'm sure they had been planning to have much longer to draw out. River's story certainly looked like it had far greater plans (where art though, 2x2 hands of blue?). They killed off Shepherd before he got any development I was satisfied with. I wanted to see him go HAM, dammit. They tied up Simon and Kaylee for the most part I guess, so that's nice. Nothing as far as Mal and Inara, though. They killed off Wash and just had Zoe go beserk a little bit, and then she went back to staying the course (though I liked at the end Mal and Zoe's conversation was referring to both the ship and Zoe, which was a good touch). They introduced some random Mr. Universe guy who ended up being one of the most important parts of the movie, and that didn't really feel right. The movie was nice and very much appreciated, but it didn't do the series justice, in my opinion. Of course, I'm not sure what justice could be done when Firefly was oozing potential out the ass the entire way. The pains of what could have been, I guess.
I'm very glad I watched all of this. It's some of the best, most engaging television I've ever seen. I cared about all the characters immensely, and that's part of why I'm so disappointed. There are so many loose, or simply terminated via death, ends that it leaves the experience feeling slightly empty. I guess I know what Firefly fans went through. I can't imagine how horrible it must've been when the series was alive, and then when Serenity came out.
There's a comic book, bridging the show and the movie... Blue hands guys will be wrapped up in that... There are a few more comic books too that are canon... Might be fun to look up.
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Glad to here you enjoyed it. I and others mentioned them already, but the comics are pretty good, though there's only been a few. They're all available as collected editions, as well.
1. Those Left Behind - 3 issue series that bridges the show and the movie. Someone familiar from Mal's past catches up to him.
2. Better Days - 3 issue series set during the time of the show, but before Those Left Behind. The crew pull of a heist, and it goes well. Too well.
3. Float Out - One-shot issue set after the events of Serenity. Some of Wash's friends gather to share stories after they hear of his death. The hardcover edition of Better Days includes this, along with two other short 8 page stories, The Other Half and Downtime.
^holy crap I'd never heard of these comics. Must get.
Oy, snowpork if you're in the mood for another Sci-Fi show with hour-long episodes, I highly recommend Doctor Who. You're going to have to put up with the first season which is tough, but once the show gets going it's absolutely phenomenal. And really the first season's not so bad if you can get over the shoddy special effects.
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From: ZaziGuado | #085 It might be time to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer here soon.
Yes. Do this, and have a watchthrough topic. I will read every word.
Also, glad you liked the show, and bryans did a good job of summing up the comics. All of them are fully canonical, so no worries there. There's also a trio of short stories in a book called Firefly: Still Flying, if you get really interested.
I hadn't heard of Float Out going to have to check that out.
Buffy and Leverage would by my top suggestions for you. And if you are ready to dive deeper into sci-fi then Farscape would be right up your ally; Incredible characters with some of the best development of any show ever, great relationships, a good mix of comedy, drama, and action. The only reason I don't immediately recommend it is that it is full Sci-fi; aliens, crazy tech, weird sciecne, the whole shebang. But if you are considering Dr. Who then you are probably okay with that.
So a couple of things to discuss now that you have seen everything in Firefly. I remember you asked after Out of Gas why the crew came back, here's my thoughts. On one shuttle you have Zoe, Wash, Simon, and River. Zoe is practical and Simon is smart, they know their chances of stumbling on to someone in space are slim to none. Zoe is not about to let them abandon Mal to die alone for some false hope. Plus you have River and her psychic instincts who might have known it was safe to go back. On the other shuttle you have Inara (pilot), Kaylee, Jayne, Book. Jayne will want to continue, Book will probably be good either way. Inara cares about Mal and won't want him to die alone, plus (and I don't know if you picked up on this) she has no issue with dying. She has a suicide kit in her room and there are some prominent theories that she is already dying, so she will want to go back to Serenity. Finally you have Kaylee who A) views Mal like a father and B) truly loves Serenity. If she thinks she is dead either way she would certainly choose to die on Serenity. Book would go along with them and even Jayne wouldn't be able to stop them then (especially with Inara piloting).
Second topic. The Message really shows why I don't like the Kaylee/Simon relationship. I feel like it is just a relationship of convenience. They are both young, attractive, and very single. There are no other options around (and Kaylee's flashbacks plus comments make it clear how desperate she is for "companionship") so they flirt and get together. Hence Tracy shows up and Kaylee is quick to switch her attentions to him instead of Simon. I really feel like that relationship lasts only as long as no better candidates are around.
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At one point doesn't Simon commit a terrible faux pas in telling Kaylee his options are limited? Seems almost like a lampshade in retrospect, though it was more about Simon being awkward with women.
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Bokonon_Lives posted... At one point doesn't Simon commit a terrible faux pas in telling Kaylee his options are limited? Seems almost like a lampshade in retrospect, though it was more about Simon being awkward with women.
Pretty sure he does yes. I think that's where he screws up when drunk (and therefore honest) in Jaynestown.
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Great characters, fun villains, the typical amazing Joss Whedon scripts, Charisma Carpenter, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and Allison Hannigan are in it. Also the high school plots are typically B-plots or just an excuse to have a monster attack a specific event.
And if you really don't like the High school stuff just watch Seasons 4-6 which take place after they graduate (Season 7 has some more High School stuff but not as much).
It's like how I don't like Westerns but still love Firefly. Just because it has a definite High School vibe doesn't mean its just another high school story.
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From: muddersmilk | #098 It's like how I don't like Westerns but still love Firefly. Just because it has a definite High School vibe doesn't mean its just another high school story.
You're probably right. Joss is Joss and all.
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