Board 8 > How the HELL are abortions legal while prostitution is illegal?

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paperwarior 10/20/11 6:35:00 PM #151:	Heh, I was just reading Kant. I find that I don't agree with him much, as I'm far more of a consequentialist. -- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto <cite>paperwarior posted [p:459788] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Heh, I was just reading Kant. I find that I don't agree with him much, as I'm far more of a consequentialist. -- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WalrusJump 10/20/11 6:36:00 PM #152:	*EndOfDiscOne posted...* Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it right It terminates a life. Is it a human life yet? have you ever swatted and killed a fly? at three months, the impact on the world as a whole is more like that than like killing an actual human baby. Killing a person results in a net loss of one life. Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out <cite>WalrusJump posted [p:459789] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> EndOfDiscOne posted...Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it rightIt terminates a life. Is it a human life yet?have you ever swatted and killed a fly? at three months, the impact on the world as a whole is more like that than like killing an actual human baby.Killing a person results in a net loss of one life.Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WalrusJump 10/20/11 6:37:00 PM #153:	*thundersheep posted...* Before 12 weeks I'd argue that it really is just a cluster of cells. Until you can measure synaptic transmission I find it no different than killing the sperm cells through masturbation. oh man, I was going to bring that up but I forgot to. There are 500 million sperm cells in one cum shot. oh the horror. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out <cite>WalrusJump posted [p:459790] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> thundersheep posted...Before 12 weeks I'd argue that it really is just a cluster of cells. Until you can measure synaptic transmission I find it no different than killing the sperm cells through masturbation.oh man, I was going to bring that up but I forgot to. There are 500 million sperm cells in one cum shot. oh the horror. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 10/20/11 6:37:00 PM #154:	Killing a person results in a net loss of one life. Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives. What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives. -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gif ssjgotenks <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:459791] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Killing a person results in a net loss of one life.Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives.What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives. -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gifssjgotenks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 10/20/11 6:38:00 PM #155:	A sperm by itself is nothing -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gif ssjgotenks <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:459792] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> A sperm by itself is nothing -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gifssjgotenks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thundersheep 10/20/11 6:38:00 PM #156:	From: EndOfDiscOne \| #141 Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it right Before 12 weeks I'd argue that it really is just a cluster of cells. Until you can measure synaptic transmission, I find it no different than the killing of sperm cells through masturbation. -- http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/verr-ckt-nach-liebe http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/lunatic-asylum <cite>thundersheep posted [p:459793] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: EndOfDiscOne \| #141Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it rightBefore 12 weeks I'd argue that it really is just a cluster of cells. Until you can measure synaptic transmission, I find it no different than the killing of sperm cells through masturbation. -- http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/verr-ckt-nach-liebehttp://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/lunatic-asylum </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:39:00 PM #157:	From: WalrusJump \| #153 Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives. You are still causing a child to not be born. Barring your interference a child would be born. But you make the choice and so now a child is NOT going to be born. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459794] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: WalrusJump \| #153Having sex, getting pregnant and losing the baby results in a net loss of zero lives.You are still causing a child to not be born.Barring your interference a child would be born. But you make the choice and so now a child is NOT going to be born. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KingButz 10/20/11 6:40:00 PM #158:	From: KingButz \| #146 I find abortion immoral because I believe that abortion is one of the ultimate affronts to nature and human dignity. It completely absolves all responsibility for the mistakes of one's actions. Abortion is basically saying "** new life I don't want it." It is creating new life(not yet sentient, of course) and abruptly and purposefully destroying it, just because you don't want to deal with the consequences of the life-creating process. I'm a Kantian, if you couldn't tell. I might emphasize again that I am pro-choice. If people want to have an abortion, fine, I don't think you should be stopped. -- My Japanese alter-ego. Hey all this is Bartz btw. <cite>KingButz posted [p:459795] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: KingButz \| #146I find abortion immoral because I believe that abortion is one of the ultimate affronts to nature and human dignity. It completely absolves all responsibility for the mistakes of one's actions. Abortion is basically saying "** new life I don't want it." It is creating new life(not yet sentient, of course) and abruptly and purposefully destroying it, just because you don't want to deal with the consequences of the life-creating process.I'm a Kantian, if you couldn't tell.I might emphasize again that I am pro-choice. If people want to have an abortion, fine, I don't think you should be stopped. -- My Japanese alter-ego.Hey all this is Bartz btw. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thundersheep 10/20/11 6:40:00 PM #159:	From: EndOfDiscOne \| #156 A sperm by itself is nothing And it doesn't become something the second it penetrates the egg. The process takes time. And I think it's ridiculous to call it a baby as soon as it has the "potential". -- http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/verr-ckt-nach-liebe http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/lunatic-asylum <cite>thundersheep posted [p:459796] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: EndOfDiscOne \| #156A sperm by itself is nothingAnd it doesn't become something the second it penetrates the egg. The process takes time. And I think it's ridiculous to call it a baby as soon as it has the "potential". -- http://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/verr-ckt-nach-liebehttp://soundcloud.com/thundersheep/lunatic-asylum </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WalrusJump 10/20/11 6:40:00 PM #160:	*red sox 777 posted...* you're saying that having sex with someone has no consequences whatsoever if it's a sure thing someone won't give birth? that's beyond false - there are plenty of interpersonal repercussions that result from sex. And those are the consequences that are bad for the country. But individuals don't recognize them as bad, which is what creates the problem. Children are a consequence that everyone sees, and which strongly discourage casual sex. how exactly do they harm the country? how would a few awkward interactions harm our economic infrastructure whatsoever? and that's not even counting sex between a boyfriend and girlfriend. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out <cite>WalrusJump posted [p:459797] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> red sox 777 posted...you're saying that having sex with someone has no consequences whatsoever if it's a sure thing someone won't give birth? that's beyond false - there are plenty of interpersonal repercussions that result from sex.And those are the consequences that are bad for the country. But individuals don't recognize them as bad, which is what creates the problem. Children are a consequence that everyone sees, and which strongly discourage casual sex.how exactly do they harm the country? how would a few awkward interactions harm our economic infrastructure whatsoever?and that's not even counting sex between a boyfriend and girlfriend. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:41:00 PM #161:	From: EndOfDiscOne \| #155 What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives. Good catch. If 10 people are born and all 10 of them get murdered it is a net loss of 0 lives as measured from before the 10 of them were born... -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459798] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: EndOfDiscOne \| #155What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives.Good catch.If 10 people are born and all 10 of them get murdered it is a net loss of 0 lives as measured from before the 10 of them were born... -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WalrusJump 10/20/11 6:42:00 PM #162:	*EndOfDiscOne posted...* What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives. at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet. as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out <cite>WalrusJump posted [p:459799] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> EndOfDiscOne posted...What about the passage of time between conception and death? In both cases there is a period of time, and you can say that the first person being conceived, born, and killed is a net loss of zero lives.at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet.as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Greyfeld 10/20/11 6:43:00 PM #163:	*red sox 777 posted...* Well, they shouldn't be able to get abortions. The remedy to this unfairness in the law is not to make two wrongs in the place of one, so that men and women are equalled wronged. I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts. -- PSN - Aevio BlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." <cite>Greyfeld posted [p:459800] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> red sox 777 posted...Well, they shouldn't be able to get abortions. The remedy to this unfairness in the law is not to make two wrongs in the place of one, so that men and women are equalled wronged.I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts. -- PSN - AevioBlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 6:44:00 PM #164:	can we stop pretending we care about the sanctity of life? unless I missed something, not a single voice on the pro-life side has managed to explain why a collection of cells a week into pregnancy is a living creature with rights and a cow getting slaughtered tomorrow doesn't have those same rights. lots of life rhetoric in this topic and it's all pretty silly since it's clear this isn't about that at all. <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459801] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> can we stop pretending we care about the sanctity of life? unless I missed something, not a single voice on the pro-life side has managed to explain why a collection of cells a week into pregnancy is a living creature with rights and a cow getting slaughtered tomorrow doesn't have those same rights.lots of life rhetoric in this topic and it's all pretty silly since it's clear this isn't about that at all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 6:45:00 PM #165:	at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet. as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal. This seems about right to me. Personally, I draw the line at "viability outside of the womb," which may or may not occur somewhere in the third trimester, but it's usually a good enough indicator. What we shouldn't kid ourselves about, however, is that we're killing life. Abortions do kill lives; they're just not lives we particularly care about, since we don't consider them full persons. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459802] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet.as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal.This seems about right to me. Personally, I draw the line at "viability outside of the womb," which may or may not occur somewhere in the third trimester, but it's usually a good enough indicator. What we shouldn't kid ourselves about, however, is that we're killing life. Abortions do kill lives; they're just not lives we particularly care about, since we don't consider them full persons. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 6:45:00 PM #166:	unless I missed something, not a single voice on the pro-life side has managed to explain why a collection of cells a week into pregnancy is a living creature with rights and a cow getting slaughtered tomorrow doesn't have those same rights. Religion completely alters the equation, you know. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459803] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> unless I missed something, not a single voice on the pro-life side has managed to explain why a collection of cells a week into pregnancy is a living creature with rights and a cow getting slaughtered tomorrow doesn't have those same rights.Religion completely alters the equation, you know. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paperwarior 10/20/11 6:45:00 PM #167:	You are still causing a child to not be born. Barring your interference a child would be born. But you make the choice and so now a child is NOT going to be born. This could be applied to using contraception or abstaining from sex when offered it. It's more direct interference, as the conception has already taken place, but all of the above are causing a potential child to not be born. -- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto <cite>paperwarior posted [p:459804] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> You are still causing a child to not be born.Barring your interference a child would be born. But you make the choice and so now a child is NOT going to be born.This could be applied to using contraception or abstaining from sex when offered it. It's more direct interference, as the conception has already taken place, but all of the above are causing a potential child to not be born. -- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 10/20/11 6:46:00 PM #168:	The thing with trimesters is that there are still not clear lines between them. A woman can say "I better hurry up and get my abortion because this cluster of cells will be human tomorrow" but there's really no difference from one day to the other. Conception and birth are the only two instantaneous moments -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gif ssjgotenks <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:459805] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> The thing with trimesters is that there are still not clear lines between them. A woman can say "I better hurry up and get my abortion because this cluster of cells will be human tomorrow" but there's really no difference from one day to the other. Conception and birth are the only two instantaneous moments -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/DS1/ani/breakin.gifssjgotenks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:46:00 PM #169:	From: WalrusJump \| #162 at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet. as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal. But there is no singular measurable moment when you can definitively draw that line. The only definitive thing is that BEFORE the egg is fertilized there is a 00.0000000% chance of a baby being born, and AFTER the egg if fertilized that number infinitely increases. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459806] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: WalrusJump \| #162at three months I'd argue that it's not a "person" there yet.as opposed to third-trimester abortions, for which I'd understand them being illegal.But there is no singular measurable moment when you can definitively draw that line.The only definitive thing is that BEFORE the egg is fertilized there is a 00.0000000% chance of a baby being born, and AFTER the egg if fertilized that number infinitely increases. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WalrusJump 10/20/11 6:46:00 PM #170:	*Forceful_Dragon posted...* From: EndOfDiscOne \| #141 Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it right This^ I guess to put it in perspective: A friend of my from high school has been married for awhile now. His wife found out she was pregnant about 2 months ago. (they couldn't be happier, yay for them ^_^ ) Right now he is looking forward to being a father in 6-7~ months time. Barring anything occurring to the "small cluster of cells" inside of his wife he will become a father. His son/daughter might not be born yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't only 6-7 months away from being born. congratulations for him! notice that he and his wife are choosing to keep the baby and raise a child. If they were a struggling, unmarried couple they would see it differently and want to wait until they were ready to have a child. in either case, it's their choice. one mistake shouldn't screw them over. and at 6-7 months away it's still a "little cluster of cells". removing it from the body at that point doesn't terminate a meaningful amount of life. note that most people who get an abortion would choose to terminate the pregnancy as soon as possible. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out <cite>WalrusJump posted [p:459807] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Forceful_Dragon posted...From: EndOfDiscOne \| #141Why does abortion have to be a religious issue? I'm not religious but I still see it as murder. Thinking of it as just a cluster of cells is a convenient way to look at it that makes everyone sleep easier. It doesn't make it rightThis^I guess to put it in perspective:A friend of my from high school has been married for awhile now. His wife found out she was pregnant about 2 months ago. (they couldn't be happier, yay for them ^_^ )Right now he is looking forward to being a father in 6-7~ months time.Barring anything occurring to the "small cluster of cells" inside of his wife he will become a father.His son/daughter might not be born yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't only 6-7 months away from being born.congratulations for him! notice that he and his wife are choosing to keep the baby and raise a child.If they were a struggling, unmarried couple they would see it differently and want to wait until they were ready to have a child.in either case, it's their choice. one mistake shouldn't screw them over.and at 6-7 months away it's still a "little cluster of cells". removing it from the body at that point doesn't terminate a meaningful amount of life. note that most people who get an abortion would choose to terminate the pregnancy as soon as possible. -- Black Turtle shoots the lights out </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 6:47:00 PM #171:	The thing with trimesters is that there are still not clear lines between them. A woman can say "I better hurry up and get my abortion because this cluster of cells will be human tomorrow" but there's really no difference from one day to the other. Conception and birth are the only two instantaneous moments Not to repeat myself, but what about viability outside of the womb? It's the same principle behind things like a legal driving age: does someone magically become able to drive a car at age 15 when they can't at 14? Of course not; but it's a good general indicator that doesn't require complicated (and expensive) testing. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459808] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> The thing with trimesters is that there are still not clear lines between them. A woman can say "I better hurry up and get my abortion because this cluster of cells will be human tomorrow" but there's really no difference from one day to the other. Conception and birth are the only two instantaneous momentsNot to repeat myself, but what about viability outside of the womb? It's the same principle behind things like a legal driving age: does someone magically become able to drive a car at age 15 when they can't at 14? Of course not; but it's a good general indicator that doesn't require complicated (and expensive) testing. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 6:48:00 PM #172:	Religion completely alters the equation, you know. I'm sure that that's what this is about for a lot of pro-lifers, but I also suspect everyone in this topic is smart enough not to use that as an arguing point. ultimately you can't change the mind of someone who believes in God and lives by biblical standards. you can, however, point out how all their justifications are inconsistent and poor arguments, ultimately forcing them to either abandon their position or admit that they believe an embryo is a person because God said so. <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459809] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Religion completely alters the equation, you know.I'm sure that that's what this is about for a lot of pro-lifers, but I also suspect everyone in this topic is smart enough not to use that as an arguing point. ultimately you can't change the mind of someone who believes in God and lives by biblical standards. you can, however, point out how all their justifications are inconsistent and poor arguments, ultimately forcing them to either abandon their position or admit that they believe an embryo is a person because God said so. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 6:50:00 PM #173:	I don't think you can make a definitive statement on where a dividing line is. However, that does not stop us from saying that if there was a dividing line, it would be in this general area. Anyways, I feel like watching that video was not a productive use of my time. I hate it when people argue when they don't actually know what the other person believes, but I don't feel like that video added anything to my knowledge of your position honestly. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459810] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> I don't think you can make a definitive statement on where a dividing line is. However, that does not stop us from saying that if there was a dividing line, it would be in this general area.Anyways, I feel like watching that video was not a productive use of my time. I hate it when people argue when they don't actually know what the other person believes, but I don't feel like that video added anything to my knowledge of your position honestly. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 10/20/11 6:50:00 PM #174:	how exactly do they harm the country? how would a few awkward interactions harm our economic infrastructure whatsoever? and that's not even counting sex between a boyfriend and girlfriend. To be honest, I don't believe too much in the whole moral fabric stuff (though the previous stuff on abortion was totally serious). But you wanted the argument from the conservative side here, and it's fun to give. How does casual sex harm our economic infrastructure? 1. It disincentivizes people to marriage. Marriage is good for relationships and hence good for happiness and especially stability, which increases productivity. 2. It cheapens the value of life. Countries that respect life, and hence freedom, are more likely to succeed. 3. Historically, countries tend to lose their morals as they become more and more advanced, at which point they fall apart and are replaced by a more vigorous, conservative, nation. The country whose focus is on pleasure and sex will lose the war to the country where the focus is on war and industry. -- 90s games > 00s games <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:459811] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> how exactly do they harm the country? how would a few awkward interactions harm our economic infrastructure whatsoever?and that's not even counting sex between a boyfriend and girlfriend.To be honest, I don't believe too much in the whole moral fabric stuff (though the previous stuff on abortion was totally serious). But you wanted the argument from the conservative side here, and it's fun to give.How does casual sex harm our economic infrastructure?1. It disincentivizes people to marriage. Marriage is good for relationships and hence good for happiness and especially stability, which increases productivity.2. It cheapens the value of life. Countries that respect life, and hence freedom, are more likely to succeed. 3. Historically, countries tend to lose their morals as they become more and more advanced, at which point they fall apart and are replaced by a more vigorous, conservative, nation. The country whose focus is on pleasure and sex will lose the war to the country where the focus is on war and industry. -- 90s games > 00s games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 6:52:00 PM #175:	1. It disincentivizes people to marriage. Marriage is good for relationships and hence good for happiness and especially stability, which increases productivity. marriage is only good for happiness for women. studies show that marriage makes men less happy on average. <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459812] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> 1. It disincentivizes people to marriage. Marriage is good for relationships and hence good for happiness and especially stability, which increases productivity.marriage is only good for happiness for women. studies show that marriage makes men less happy on average. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 10/20/11 6:52:00 PM #176:	I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts. This entire topic is about the legality of abortion. See the topic title. If you don't want to discuss it though, you don't have to, no one is forcing you to. I believe my position is clear: even if abortion is allowed, men should still not be allowed to opt out of child support during pregnancy. It makes no difference that women unfairly can, because two wrongs don't make a right. -- 90s games > 00s games <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:459813] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts.This entire topic is about the legality of abortion. See the topic title. If you don't want to discuss it though, you don't have to, no one is forcing you to.I believe my position is clear: even if abortion is allowed, men should still not be allowed to opt out of child support during pregnancy. It makes no difference that women unfairly can, because two wrongs don't make a right. -- 90s games > 00s games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:53:00 PM #177:	From: JeffreyRaze \| #173 However, that does not stop us from saying that if there was a dividing line, it would be in this general area. But there is a very specific line: On one side of the line you have "an egg has NOT been fertilized and so there is no chance that a child will be born" On the other side of the line you have "an egg HAS been fertilized and so a child is going to begin growing immediately" Anyways, I feel like watching that video was not a productive use of my time. I hate it when people argue when they don't actually know what the other person believes, but I don't feel like that video added anything to my knowledge of your position honestly. In that case I'm sorry. It made sense to me and so I hoped it would help. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459814] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: JeffreyRaze \| #173However, that does not stop us from saying that if there was a dividing line, it would be in this general area.But there is a very specific line:On one side of the line you have "an egg has NOT been fertilized and so there is no chance that a child will be born"On the other side of the line you have "an egg HAS been fertilized and so a child is going to begin growing immediately"Anyways, I feel like watching that video was not a productive use of my time. I hate it when people argue when they don't actually know what the other person believes, but I don't feel like that video added anything to my knowledge of your position honestly.In that case I'm sorry. It made sense to me and so I hoped it would help. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
metroid composite 10/20/11 6:55:00 PM #178:	As one of the token feminists on this board... Prostitution should be legal. Although to be honest, there is really no consensus about prostitution in the feminist community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_prostitution To me, legalizing just seems overall positive, however, because it gets rid of the pimp system which is where a lot of the exploitation and removal of free choice comes into play. -- Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision <cite>metroid composite posted [p:459815] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> As one of the token feminists on this board...Prostitution should be legal.Although to be honest, there is really no consensus about prostitution in the feminist community:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_prostitutionTo me, legalizing just seems overall positive, however, because it gets rid of the pimp system which is where a lot of the exploitation and removal of free choice comes into play. -- Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Greyfeld 10/20/11 6:55:00 PM #179:	*red sox 777 posted...* I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts. This entire topic is about the legality of abortion. See the topic title. If you don't want to discuss it though, you don't have to, no one is forcing you to. I believe my position is clear: even if abortion is allowed, men should still not be allowed to opt out of child support during pregnancy. It makes no difference that women unfairly can, because two wrongs don't make a right. "Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves." Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies. -- PSN - Aevio BlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." <cite>Greyfeld posted [p:459816] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> red sox 777 posted...I don't have discussions in fantasy scenarios. Women can get abortions. This is an unalterable fact. If you're going to continue making arguments based on fantasy, then I'm no longer responding to your posts.This entire topic is about the legality of abortion. See the topic title. If you don't want to discuss it though, you don't have to, no one is forcing you to.I believe my position is clear: even if abortion is allowed, men should still not be allowed to opt out of child support during pregnancy. It makes no difference that women unfairly can, because two wrongs don't make a right."Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves."Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies. -- PSN - AevioBlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:57:00 PM #180:	From: Greyfeld \| #179 "Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves." Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies. What he is saying is that "as long as abortions are illegal, then it should work like this to limit the wrong". It isn't "picking a group" it is simply choosing not to screw over a second group since one is already being screwed over. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459817] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: Greyfeld \| #179"Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves."Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies.What he is saying is that "as long as abortions are illegal, then it should work like this to limit the wrong".It isn't "picking a group" it is simply choosing not to screw over a second group since one is already being screwed over. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 10/20/11 6:57:00 PM #181:	I'm not the one choosing to screw over a group. But if you want me to decide whether to screw over 1 group, or 2? Absolutely I'm going to choose 1. Same with wealth distribution. Which would you choose, a society where everyone has $100 or a society where 99% have $101 and 1% has $1000? I'm definitely going with the latter. -- 90s games > 00s games <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:459818] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> I'm not the one choosing to screw over a group. But if you want me to decide whether to screw over 1 group, or 2? Absolutely I'm going to choose 1.Same with wealth distribution. Which would you choose, a society where everyone has $100 or a society where 99% have $101 and 1% has $1000? I'm definitely going with the latter. -- 90s games > 00s games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 6:58:00 PM #182:	From: red sox 777 \| #181 Which would you choose, a society where everyone has $100 or a society where 99% have $101 and 1% has $1000? I'm definitely going with the latter. I don't think this math works. The second society has more money in it for some reason. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459819] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: red sox 777 \| #181Which would you choose, a society where everyone has $100 or a society where 99% have $101 and 1% has $1000? I'm definitely going with the latter.I don't think this math works.The second society has more money in it for some reason. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 6:59:00 PM #183:	Greyfield, he's arguing that both of them should bear equal responsibility. He wants to change the laws, just like you do. Stop it. Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. I don't feel that potential humans have any intrinsic value, which is where the real difference in our views is I guess. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459820] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Greyfield, he's arguing that both of them should bear equal responsibility. He wants to change the laws, just like you do. Stop it.Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. I don't feel that potential humans have any intrinsic value, which is where the real difference in our views is I guess. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 6:59:00 PM #184:	or admit that they believe an embryo is a person because God said so. Don't make it sound so childish (most dumb atheists tend to do that; don't be a dumb atheist). Religious folk believe in the existence of the soul, and argue that the soul of an autonomous, rights-imbued individual comes into conception at conception. You don't have to believe in a soul, but it's not a "bad argument" in any way. marriage is only good for happiness for women. studies show that marriage makes men less happy on average. This is less a problem with marriage and more a problem with men (not to sound like a feminist). If people can become disciplined and understand the real value behind a stable marriage, then this would be a non-issue. That said, I strongly believe that the highest kind of marriage isn't for everyone; only for those who are secure about themselves and don't need external validation or bouts of hedonistic indulgence. Sex in general is disgustingly overrated. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459821] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> or admit that they believe an embryo is a person because God said so.Don't make it sound so childish (most dumb atheists tend to do that; don't be a dumb atheist). Religious folk believe in the existence of the soul, and argue that the soul of an autonomous, rights-imbued individual comes into conception at conception. You don't have to believe in a soul, but it's not a "bad argument" in any way.marriage is only good for happiness for women. studies show that marriage makes men less happy on average.This is less a problem with marriage and more a problem with men (not to sound like a feminist). If people can become disciplined and understand the real value behind a stable marriage, then this would be a non-issue. That said, I strongly believe that the highest kind of marriage isn't for everyone; only for those who are secure about themselves and don't need external validation or bouts of hedonistic indulgence. Sex in general is disgustingly overrated. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 10/20/11 7:00:00 PM #185:	Because the second society is actually richer. The second society corresponds to 1 group being screwed over, while the first society corresponds to 2 groups being screwed over. It's terrible policy to make everyone poor just to make people equal. -- 90s games > 00s games <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:459822] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Because the second society is actually richer. The second society corresponds to 1 group being screwed over, while the first society corresponds to 2 groups being screwed over. It's terrible policy to make everyone poor just to make people equal. -- 90s games > 00s games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Greyfeld 10/20/11 7:01:00 PM #186:	*Forceful_Dragon posted...* From: Greyfeld \| #179 "Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves." Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies. What he is saying is that "as long as abortions are illegal, then it should work like this to limit the wrong". It isn't "picking a group" it is simply choosing not to screw over a second group since one is already being screwed over. No, you're trading a subjective wrong for an objective one. Abortion isn't "wrong" for everybody, and opinions are subjective. However, intentionally retardlng the rights of one sex for the sake of the other is objectively wrong, and should never be tolerated. -- PSN - Aevio BlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." <cite>Greyfeld posted [p:459823] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Forceful_Dragon posted...From: Greyfeld \| #179"Two wrongs don't make a right, so let's pick one group to screw over, so we can feel better about ourselves."Yeah, you're not worth responding to. Have fun with your fantasies.What he is saying is that "as long as abortions are illegal, then it should work like this to limit the wrong".It isn't "picking a group" it is simply choosing not to screw over a second group since one is already being screwed over.No, you're trading a subjective wrong for an objective one. Abortion isn't "wrong" for everybody, and opinions are subjective. However, intentionally retardlng the rights of one sex for the sake of the other is objectively wrong, and should never be tolerated. -- PSN - AevioBlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 7:02:00 PM #187:	From: JeffreyRaze \| #183 Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. Luckily your parents didn't feel the same way then, I guess. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459824] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: JeffreyRaze \| #183Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human.Luckily your parents didn't feel the same way then, I guess. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 7:04:00 PM #188:	Don't make it sound so childish (most dumb atheists tend to do that; don't be a dumb atheist). Religious folk believe in the existence of the soul, and argue that the soul of an autonomous, rights-imbued individual comes into conception at conception. You don't have to believe in a soul, but it's not a "bad argument" in any way. it's an argument without evidence, and not worth considering in this situation. they can argue that embryos have souls and I'll argue that animals have even higher value souls, and we should especially not eat them. we'll each bring the same amount of evidence to the table and get nowhere. I'm interested in arguments that are logically consistent and have evidence supporting them. <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459825] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Don't make it sound so childish (most dumb atheists tend to do that; don't be a dumb atheist). Religious folk believe in the existence of the soul, and argue that the soul of an autonomous, rights-imbued individual comes into conception at conception. You don't have to believe in a soul, but it's not a "bad argument" in any way.it's an argument without evidence, and not worth considering in this situation. they can argue that embryos have souls and I'll argue that animals have even higher value souls, and we should especially not eat them. we'll each bring the same amount of evidence to the table and get nowhere. I'm interested in arguments that are logically consistent and have evidence supporting them. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 7:04:00 PM #189:	I don't think I would have been done wrong by having never existed. My existence only started to matter once I started existing, before that it really, truly didn't. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459826] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> I don't think I would have been done wrong by having never existed. My existence only started to matter once I started existing, before that it really, truly didn't. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 7:05:00 PM #190:	Luckily your parents didn't feel the same way then, I guess. oh good <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459827] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Luckily your parents didn't feel the same way then, I guess.oh good </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Greyfeld 10/20/11 7:05:00 PM #191:	*JeffreyRaze posted...* Greyfield, he's arguing that both of them should bear equal responsibility. He wants to change the laws, just like you do. Stop it. Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. I don't feel that potential humans have any intrinsic value, which is where the real difference in our views is I guess. First, please spell my name right. Second, I'm trying to make a point about men's rights concerning pregnancy based on the current laws. Circumventing the argument by trying to change the entire framework of the argument isn't constructive or conducive to a civil argument. If he wants to argue the right/wrong of abortion, that's fine. But that's not what I'm concerned with right now, and if he wants to refute my opinions, he should keep within the framework of the argument, not create his own new argument that has no basis in reality. -- PSN - Aevio BlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." <cite>Greyfeld posted [p:459828] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> JeffreyRaze posted...Greyfield, he's arguing that both of them should bear equal responsibility. He wants to change the laws, just like you do. Stop it.Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. I don't feel that potential humans have any intrinsic value, which is where the real difference in our views is I guess.First, please spell my name right.Second, I'm trying to make a point about men's rights concerning pregnancy based on the current laws. Circumventing the argument by trying to change the entire framework of the argument isn't constructive or conducive to a civil argument.If he wants to argue the right/wrong of abortion, that's fine. But that's not what I'm concerned with right now, and if he wants to refute my opinions, he should keep within the framework of the argument, not create his own new argument that has no basis in reality. -- PSN - AevioBlackMageJawa - "I'm on a Goomba." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 7:05:00 PM #192:	From: BoshStrikesBack \| #189 Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. A mere assertion argument? Very nice. Your evidence is compelling. It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459829] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: BoshStrikesBack \| #189Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human.A mere assertion argument? Very nice. Your evidence is compelling.It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 7:07:00 PM #193:	Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human. A mere assertion argument? Very nice. Your evidence is compelling. it's an argument without evidence, and not worth considering in this situation. they can argue that embryos have souls and I'll argue that animals have even higher value souls, and we should especially not eat them. we'll each bring the same amount of evidence to the table and get nowhere. I'm interested in arguments that are logically consistent and have evidence supporting them. No, what you're interested in is pretending that you don't have value judgments, when all of your supposedly "logical" arguments rest squarely on them. You value life. You value choice. You value freedom. Then, when these values overlap, you make more arbitrary value judgments to establish which takes precedent in any given situation or set of circumstances. "Abortion is wrong because the soul exists at conception" presupposes a) a Christian conception of the world, and b) a value for eventual life over choice. "Abortion is right because it's just a cluster of cells" presupposes a) a scientific conception of the world, and b) a value for choice over eventual life. Please, please don't act like religious arguments aren't "logical" or "worth discussing," because I have quite a bit of respect for you as a poster at the moment. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459830] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Anyways, I don't hold that conception is a viable dividing line between human/non-human.A mere assertion argument? Very nice. Your evidence is compelling.it's an argument without evidence, and not worth considering in this situation. they can argue that embryos have souls and I'll argue that animals have even higher value souls, and we should especially not eat them. we'll each bring the same amount of evidence to the table and get nowhere. I'm interested in arguments that are logically consistent and have evidence supporting them.No, what you're interested in is pretending that you don't have value judgments, when all of your supposedly "logical" arguments rest squarely on them. You value life. You value choice. You value freedom. Then, when these values overlap, you make more arbitrary value judgments to establish which takes precedent in any given situation or set of circumstances. "Abortion is wrong because the soul exists at conception" presupposes a) a Christian conception of the world, and b) a value for eventual life over choice. "Abortion is right because it's just a cluster of cells" presupposes a) a scientific conception of the world, and b) a value for choice over eventual life. Please, please don't act like religious arguments aren't "logical" or "worth discussing," because I have quite a bit of respect for you as a poster at the moment. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 7:07:00 PM #194:	It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener. oh my b, no hard feelings -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459831] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener.oh my b, no hard feelings -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 7:08:00 PM #195:	From: Greyfeld \| #192 First, please spell my name right. Second, I'm trying to make a point about men's rights concerning pregnancy based on the current laws. Circumventing the argument by trying to change the entire framework of the argument isn't constructive or conducive to a civil argument. If he wants to argue the right/wrong of abortion, that's fine. But that's not what I'm concerned with right now, and if he wants to refute my opinions, he should keep within the framework of the argument, not create his own new argument that has no basis in reality. You're basically declaring the bounds to be what you say they are. He views a man disavowing responsibility of a child to be wrong. The fact that it currently is discriminatory is immaterial, as he isn't arguing for the current situation at all. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459832] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: Greyfeld \| #192First, please spell my name right.Second, I'm trying to make a point about men's rights concerning pregnancy based on the current laws. Circumventing the argument by trying to change the entire framework of the argument isn't constructive or conducive to a civil argument.If he wants to argue the right/wrong of abortion, that's fine. But that's not what I'm concerned with right now, and if he wants to refute my opinions, he should keep within the framework of the argument, not create his own new argument that has no basis in reality.You're basically declaring the bounds to be what you say they are. He views a man disavowing responsibility of a child to be wrong. The fact that it currently is discriminatory is immaterial, as he isn't arguing for the current situation at all. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JeffreyRaze 10/20/11 7:08:00 PM #196:	From: BoshStrikesBack \| #194 It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener. oh my b, no hard feelings iz cool. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below! http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn <cite>JeffreyRaze posted [p:459833] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> From: BoshStrikesBack \| #194It's not evidence, it's my personal views. I'm saying that's where our views differ, not I'm right you're wrong neener neener.oh my b, no hard feelingsiz cool. -- MMBN style fighting game made by me in the link below!http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/games/184947-b8bn </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Forceful_Dragon 10/20/11 7:08:00 PM #197:	Annnnyways, I think this argument has just about run out of mileage. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Dee http://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg <cite>Forceful_Dragon posted [p:459834] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Annnnyways, I think this argument has just about run out of mileage. -- ~Ç~ Eff_Deehttp://img.imgcake.com/FDjpgyb.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 10/20/11 7:09:00 PM #198:	Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not. -- 90s games > 00s games <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:459835] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not. -- 90s games > 00s games </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BoshStrikesBack 10/20/11 7:10:00 PM #199:	Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not. Depends on how much you value equality, I suppose. I could easily see someone arguing the opposite. -- Houston Texans: 3-3 Division Ranking: 2nd <cite>BoshStrikesBack posted [p:459836] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not.Depends on how much you value equality, I suppose. I could easily see someone arguing the opposite. -- Houston Texans: 3-3Division Ranking: 2nd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmarsComin 10/20/11 7:11:00 PM #200:	Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not. this doesn't change anything. you equate abortion with shoplifting, Greyfeld wouldn't. it's not "two wrongs make a right" from his perspective, it's "one side is fine but the other is getting screwed." if you don't think abortion is wrong you're not likely to respond to a shoplifting example. <cite>OmarsComin posted [p:459837] in How the HE... [t:60715458]...</cite> <quote> Let's make this argument a bit clearer. If women are allowed to shoplift from stores, should men be allowed to also? No, of course not.this doesn't change anything. you equate abortion with shoplifting, Greyfeld wouldn't. it's not "two wrongs make a right" from his perspective, it's "one side is fine but the other is getting screwed." if you don't think abortion is wrong you're not likely to respond to a shoplifting example. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > How the HELL are abortions legal while prostitution is illegal? (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > How the HELL are abortions legal while prostitution is illegal?